
The original quote

The original quote
Google has apparently been mogged into rewriting the jpegxl reference library in rust to make it more “secure” so that it can be used in browsers (apparently the reason they refuse to put it in chrome, and the reason firefox devs cite) (never mind the fact that this apparently didn’t stop Apple) we can only hope they actually finish the damn thing…
To be fair, this isn't just happening out of the blue. Apple had a bunch of zero day, no click vulnerabilities from its media decoders, which were some of the original Pegasus vectors. Complex media rendering is a very legitimate security concern, particularly in the browser space on general purpose machines. IDK if doing a full RUST implementation is the right answer, but the idea of not wanting to add a massive potential attack vector for redundant functionality is not completely insane.
I uploaded a meme in .jxl and everyone downvoted it because they couldn't see it. If you use a firefox fork please enable it ffs.
can you even enable it as an option? I thought they removed it because of "attack surface" concerns
In can be enabled in about:config but only in nightly. It works in most forks as well. A Rust decoder for .jxl is in development. Mozilla said they will include it in Firefox when finished
~~i just enabled it in firefox stable, 143.0, linux ~~
edit: i have been bamboozled, it does nothing
test your browser for jxl support: https://jpegxl.info/resources/jpeg-xl-test-page
ah yeah, is that rust implementation the one being written by the chromium jxl team?
For f*&% sake, I'm using JPEG XL on my website for some high res images that are amazingly well compressed using it, and especially to reduce the repository size on Codeberg. Only now discovered that only my niche main browser, Zen, renders them. What a stupid decision; their compression of high quality images is superior. Perfect to use alongside AVIF which does better in low quality images and illustrations and the like, or PNG which is best at preserving images containing text such as screenshots.
Safari renders them.
Firefox forks usually render them because Firefox supports it but Mozilla takes it out of packaged builds.
I had the luxury of seeing incredibly smart engineers speak about their new innovations for web development.
I then got to watch them get hired by Google and paid extremely well to release those innovations, with the support of a bunch of other brilliant people, often under a open-source label.
I then get to see people go, "Google Bad!" About those features, and because it was paid for by Google, they don't even want to touch it.
WebP and AVIF are good at what they do, it's just that Google insists on them being the only modern formats people should ever use, despite different formats being better in specific contexts.
I don't think people would be as upset if Google gave people the choice to use other formats. The standards aren't the problem, the monopoly is.
Google is an enormous beast. It doesn't care about you, or me, or the good of anyone. Sometimes its goals happen to align with a common good for awhile - and so good stuff can come from that. But often their goal do not, and they cause harm while crushing any possible alternative path. And as time goes on, less and less of what google does is for the common good.
For that reason, I think it is unwise to support google. Supporting them further entrenches their power, preventing others from contributing.
The smart engineers you spoke of would still be smart engineers with or without google. Google didn't create them. They can still contribute with or without Google. But Google did direct their efforts to suit Google's own needs. - Sometimes that's also good for other people, but often it is not.
Why is this topic so hot right now? What did I miss?
i just saw a post hating on webp on my timeline, and happened to have recently talked with a friend about image formats, wherein this image was made. so i just kinda thought it would be relevant to post
It’s been hot since webp was introduced.
Jxl is just the best image format at present.
This might be an unpopular opinion, but webp fulfills the same use cases and some more. But it's not jpeg and some SW still doesn't support it.
Except webp has worse compression, doesn't support HDR and has a max colour depth of 8bpc. What makes JPEG-XL great is that it covers loads of use cases and is very future proof.
Webp, on the other hand is "current-proof". JXL's biggest issue is getting adoption, not the technical aspects.
The meme is right, chrome/ium support would do a lot to help adoption. But not even the mainline FF version has support (AFAIK).
Webp is "current-useless" on account of being unsupported by a lot of software, including Google's own office suite. Just the same as jxl.
At the end of the day, any standard or protocol that is not widely supported is de-facto useless. Some examples are: ipv4 multicast, TCP multipath, MIR, hashcash; all of this are technically valid, but nothing supports them, so it doesn't matter
edit: the option doesn't seem to actually enable support
stable firefox has an option to support it, in about:config that is set to false by default
Except .jxl is backwards compatible with .jpg. You can losslessly convert a .jpg to a smaller .jxl file. Also .jxl is future proof and supports ridiculously high resolutions up to 1 terapixel.
JXL is better on paper/technical specs, but adoption is terrible while wepb is already here as it replaced gifs and most web images.
I have nothing specific against JXL, it's a good format, but I don't feel its necessary either.
Yeah, I guess if we're being pragmatic/reasonable, you are right. I think jxl use and general adoption would be much more of a symbolic win than a technical one. The problem is that a new image format only reaches general adoption if Google supports it. Webp is a decent Google-developed standard that has reached general adoption because Google pushed and supported it and if Google doesn't support jxl, then you can't use it on the general internet.
This is not about jxl being the better standard, this is about the better standard being non-viable because Google doesn't want it to be.
The caveat here is that jxl is not half as old as webp and this situation might change drastically in a matter of months (I bet ff would be quick to adopt jxl if Google did...) ((although the jxl standard is technically 3 years older than the webp standard))
Kinda missing the point here.
One company shouldn’t be able to pick winners and losers for file formats or protocols.
Google has done it over and over again: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QUIC
Pretty sweet gig, being able to give yourself an 8-year head-start.
They released the gQUIC reference implementation under the BSD-3 licence. What would have been your preferred way?
Google is a monopoly, consequently most of their in-house tech will make waves if they decide to use it.
Or are you suggesting a nefarious purpose, like MS's EEE?
There’s not really a better way when you’re a monopoly. That’s the problem.
With QUIC and with webp, there was no period of time where the new protocol/format had to compete against other experimental options to see which would win out.
Because Google put it out, and they control an overwhelming share of clients and servers, they were both a foregone conclusion. Google released it, so now it’s a standard. Other companies can either adopt it or fall behind.
This allows them to stack the deck in favor of their portfolio, even if other options were technically superior.
Question: Why do I always have issues opening the memes from here? I use ff+ubo and yours is the only instance I need to use chrome or edge to see the full sized image
png better
JXL is better at what PNG does than PNG is
JPEG XL is partially based on FLIF/FUIF, which boasted/claimed the best lossless image compression on the planet.
PNG is superior
PNG only supports 4 colour channels, RGBA. JPEG XL supports up to 4099... In case you ever needed that for depth or thermal data or something.
PNG only supports 8 and 16 bits for each colour channel, JPEG XL supports up to 32 bits for each colour channel. In case you have something physically capable of displaying the difference.
I'd talk about HDR support, but PNG added that recently when it also made animation support official, rather than an extension. Which JPEG XL also supports.
To be fair, I still use PNG out of habit, and because I can't show anybody .jxl files over the internet like I can .png files. Also I mentally associate PNG with quality, while JPEG XL sounds like a big JPEG, which it can also be if you switch it to lossy mode.
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