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[–] 4 points 1 year ago*

Ahh yes the "voters should have STFU and got in line for the genocide candidate" crowd seems to be out in full force.

There is one critique to come to from the 2024 election: Harris/Buden needed to have done better.

This group gave her a path to doing better; Harris chose not to take it. That's on Harris, not the uncommitted/undecided movement. AND, if you are blaming voters at this point, you are the very problem that produces the results of now multiple Trump victories when he was one of the most easily defeatable candidates of all time.

Putting it on voters, not candidates, to change allows candidates to maintain highly unelectable positions: the primaries are when voters correct candidates as to where the party is at. The candidates, in this case Harris and Biden, chose not to listen to the voters.

There was nothing "strategic" about supporting a pro genocide candidate when the act of being pro genocide was clearly to preclude their ability to win the election. The most "strategic" thing to have done in that moment was to do exactly what this organizer did: Organize a protest vote and try and move the candidate.

And if in 2025 you haven't learned this lesson, keep your wrong headed approach to Democratic party politics to yourself. You cost us 2024 and if that view of strategy, the Democratic party will win nothing of substance in the future.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    Screw this idiot pearl clutcher who didn’t vote strategically.

    Doing more harm than good.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    That's not what happened.

    Hong was a leading voice in the "uninstructed" vote in the primary, not the general. It was purely sending a message.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago

    Apparently few people ever bother to read the article before firing off their uniformed opinion. This was during the primary. If Biden or the party had listened to this protest vote, we might not be in the disaster we're in right now. What it did do was reveal how soft his support was among certain groups of voters, particularly progressives.

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  • [+] -11 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    I still can't get mad over someone voting with their morals. The only difference between a Harris and Trump vote was white Americans being treated how anyone who wasn't a WASP inside and outside the country has been treated by America for 60+ years. Especially since she's a memebr of the smallest voting block in the country. Her protezt vote was basically meaningless.

    You can try and blame those who didn't vote strategically but the blame lies on the more than 50% of the largest voting demographic(white ppl) voting for a racist/rapist.

    Ask yourself why white America would rather vote for a bigot instead of blaming her

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    Uhhh we do blame them. We also blame her because she knew and understood that he was rapist/racist and decided to support him anyway.

    The only difference between a Harris and Trump vote was white Americans being treated how anyone who wasn't a WASP inside and outside the country has been treated by America for 60+ years.

    Oh, you're delusional. My bad.

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  • 7 comments in c/wisconsin@midwest.social view that post
    [–] 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    The latest candidate to enter the crowded Wisconsin race for governor is a progressive who helped spearhead a protest vote against former President Joe Biden over his stance on Israel in the Democratic primary last year.

    If Biden, Kamala, or the last iteration of the DNC had listened to voters, trump.wouldnt be president right now.

    It's fucking infuriating to see so many people who claim to be against trump, still try to insist that voters work for politicians and not the other way around.

    Like, I really can't tell if they're trolling or legitimately incapable of the two steps of critical thinking to see that we were going down the same path with Biden/Kamala that took Republicans to trump.

    Dem voters will never be as good at holding their noses and voting blindly. Which is why we need fair primaries to ensure the general candidate is who dem voters want to vote.

    Which is the lesson Hong was trying to teach in the sham primary by pushing for "undecided"

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    One word for Rep. Hong: "nope."

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  • [+] -6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

    Suuuuure. (Gestures vaguely at everything). Because their last endeavor worked out so well for everyone. Clearly they're forward thinking and able to see the big picture. /s

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    If Biden/Kamala had listened to her and everyone else screaming his stance on Israel was going to hand trump the election...

    trump wouldn't be president right now.

    Don't blame the people who tried to talk Biden/Kamala into putting America over Israel.

    Blame the people who cared more about Israel and them being able to commit genocide than they cared about trump being president.

    Hell, Kamala could have just fucking lied and said she wouldn't support the genocide, or tried to use ambiguous wording.

    She just kept doubling my down that shed do anything to support Israel, which apparently included letting trump become president.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

    The other way of looking at it:

    There was (and now IS) an existential threat to our country and democracy. Everyone with 2 brain cells was trying to stop it. The other main choice may not have been perfect, but it was definitely not as bad as we ultimately ended up with. Again, everyone with two brain cells to rub together recognized the threat and was trying to stop this.

    And these people were standing in the goddamned way.

    Standing in the way with no foresight, with no thinking of unintended consequences. Demanding perfection when "not a dumpster fire" and "total dumpster fire" were the only viable options. Just standing in the way, single-issuing us to fascism.

    I 100% blame anyone who did not take this threat seriously, sat out, stood in the way, expected someone trying to appeal to the entire country to appeal specifically to them, or single-issue protest voted us to this point.

    They may or may not have made a difference in the end, but the point is they were actively working against the only non-awful outcome which ultimately came to pass.

    So don't blame the least worst candidate, blame the two party system and the voters who refuse to live in or understand the reality of that. Until that's fixed, third parties have always been and will remain spoiler candidates.

    So, thanks protest voters / abstainers. You saved Palestine.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago*

    I'm rarely this direct, but in this case I'll make an exception: Your mental model is completely wrong. If I may spell out its assumptions: Every voter is strongly engaged in the political process, and fully-informed. Each non-voter made a fully-conscious, considered decision to not vote as a protest.

    I only need to go that far to make it obvious just how bonkers that mental model is. Only about 65% of eligible voters cast a vote in 2024, and that was high, fer cripessake! It's easy to find tons of surveys and person-on-the-street interviews to find out just how not-fully-informed so many people are, and how many people vote (or not) on vibes. The "uncommitted" voters in the primary were indeed the people likely to be politically-engaged and informed, and in the end a lot of them did hold their noses and vote for Harris in the general election. The numbers don't bear out that they materially affected the outcome, either way.

    By contrast, in my mental model, Harris needed to motivate a lot more of the 35% of non-voters to show up at the polls by giving them a reason to make the effort. And her campaign did not, so those people engaged in exactly the sort of "not going to think about it" behavior that powers us through so much of daily life: It's only one vote, it doesn't matter. I have to work and get dinner and pick up the kids, and going to vote is a hassle. Other people will vote. It's just politics, it doesn't affect me. Nothing really changes either way.

    That last rationale was the real problem with the genocide issue. Harris's messaging was muddled, at best, and didn't provide anybody a reason to make the effort to vote. A strong, vocal opposition to it would have provided more voters with a rallying point and energy to overcome the inertia and get out to the polls. (And, frustratingly, we found out after the election that the campaign knew that their messaging on Gaza was a losing issue at the time.) Of course, a more populist economic message could have provided that energy, or a promise to break from Biden policy, which wasn't working for a lot of people.

    I'm not saying that my model is perfect — all models are wrong, after all — but it provides a far more plausible explanation of the 2.5 million "missing" voters than the idea that they all refrained from voting as a protest over an issue that wasn't even in the top 3 issues that they identified in surveys.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    You think voters work for politicians...

    That's how Republicans end up with trump and never holding him accountable.

    Hong and others think politicians should work for voters.

    That's called democracy

    It sounds like you have a fundamental disagreement with the party, and are insisting the only other option to trump, becomes trump.

    I hope some day you realize how fucking bad your plan is. But if you didn't after the last election, no amount of facts or critical thinking is ever going to change your opinions.

    So how about you go back to voting in Republican primaries and try toodetate your own party instead of trying to "fix" ours?

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  • 5 comments in c/news@lemmy.world view that post
    [–] 19 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    In the primary.

    She pushed for people to put "undecided" because Biden was the only option and he wasn't going to win.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    She was at a Working Families Party I was at and gave some quick notes just after the first session of the new state Congress. She loves to see Robin Vos squirm at what he knows is coming.

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  • 1 comment in c/progressivepolitics@lemmy.world view that post
    [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Nice. A real candidate.

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