Nuclear energy and natural gas will still be considered environmentally sustainable investments in the European Union following a court ruling Wednesday, potentially driving massive amounts of financing toward projects that are not widely considered “green.”

Austria had sued the European Commission, the bloc’s executive, over the inclusion of gas and nuclear in the EU’s classification system for environmentally sustainable economic activities. The system helps direct investments to the projects that are most needed to cut planet-warming greenhouse gas emissions.

The General Court at the European Court of Justice on Thursday ruled in favor of the commission, dismissing Austria’s action.

Nuclear power is a carbon-free source of electricity but it is not typically labeled as green energy, like solar, wind and other renewables. Generating power this way requires mining and processing uranium to create nuclear fuel, an energy-intensive process that produces emissions. Nuclear reactors generate radioactive waste and there’s a risk of accidents.

Natural, or fossil, gas has lower carbon emissions than coal, but it still warms the planet when burned to produce electricity.

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[–] 41 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Nuclear: great.

Natural gas: what the fuck, seriously?

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

    I'd guess that the argument on natural gas is one of the following:

    It's replacing coal and coal emits more carbon

    The problem is that coal-based power is rapidly declining, at least in the West, and it's not a huge chunk of the generation mix anymore.

    https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/interactive-publications/energy-2025

    In 2023, the energy mix in the EU, meaning the range of energy sources available, mainly consisted of 5 different sources:

    • crude oil and petroleum products (37.7%)
    • natural gas (20.4%)
    • renewable energy (19.5%)
    • solid fuels (10.6%)
    • nuclear (11.8%).

    Oil is a pretty expensive way to generate power. I doubt that wood pellet power plants are very common. So if you want to reduce fossil-fuel-based generation past that, you probably do have to look at reducing natural gas.

    We can use it in conjunction with intermittent renewables at lower levels to avoid expensive energy storage

    Solar and wind aren't always available when someone wants to use them; they're intermittent. You have to fill in those gaps somehow. But energy storage is expensive and for pumped hydrostorage, the most-currently-economical form, somewhat geographically-limited. So the idea is that one uses natural gas instead of storing energy from a less-carbon-intensive source to fill in those gaps...but at least you're using less natural gas than one would if one weren't using renewable resources and just using natural gas all the time.

    Also, one more tidbit:

    Austria had sued the European Commission, the bloc’s executive, over the inclusion of gas and nuclear in the EU’s classification system for environmentally sustainable economic activities.

    My guess is that Austria's probably unhappy because Austria uses a ton of hydropower, is very mountainous and has favorable geography for hydropower, so they'd prefer to have hydropower favored.

    kagis

    https://lowcarbonpower.org/region/Austria

    This has hydropower in Austria being 56.2% of Austria's electricity generation.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago*

    When you include inevitable leaks that happen during the production process, natural gas emits just as much CO2 as coal.

    https://rmi.org/reality-check-natural-gas-true-climate-risk/

    One thing it doesn't do is release a whole lot of other non-CO2 pollutants that coal does.

    Just build storage and long distance HVDC. Brazil has an HVDC line that's 2400 km long. With that kind of range, solar panels in Arizona can power Chicago, wind in Nebraska can power New York, and every dam in between can be used as storage. This problem has been solved, and we don't even need to bring nuclear into it.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    If I remember correctly from when the regulation was originally discussed, there are a lot of restrictions on the natural gas plant before it's considered green. Its only green if it replaces an existing coal plant, and if the new plant is not larger than the one it replaces, and if it has very low emissions.

    Edit. Found a source:

    https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/BRIE/2022/698935/EPRS_BRI(2022)698935_EN.pdf

    Conditions for natural gas to be classified as green.

    life-cycle emissions are below 100 g CO2 e/kWh; or

    until 2030 (date of approval of construction permit), and where renewables are not available at sufficient scale, direct emissions are below 270 g CO2 e/kWh or, for the activity of electricity generation, their annual direct GHG emissions must not exceed an average of 550 kg CO2 e/kW of the facility's capacity over 20 years. In this case, the activity must meet a set of cumulative conditions: e.g. it replaces a facility using solid or liquid fossil fuels; the replacement leads to a reduction in GHG emissions of at least 55 % over the lifetime of the newly installed production capacity; the newly installed production capacity does not exceed the capacity of the replaced facility by more than 15 %; the refurbishment of the facility does not increase the production capacity for co-generation of heat/cooling and power from fossil gaseous fuels; the activity takes place on the territory of a Member State which has committed to phasing out the use of energy generation from coal; the activity ensures a full switch to renewable or low-carbon gases by 2035; and a regular independent verification of compliance with the criteria is carried out.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Calling fossil gas “Natural” is really genius. I mean, it IS natural, but in most people’s minds it’s perceived as some sort of “bio” fuel.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago

    50% is a failing grade.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago
    [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    Not only is natural gas dependence a climate threat to Europe, good luck when the jet stream turns off, but it's also a security threat. As long as they have to keep paying there main geopolitical adversary billions to keep from freezing in the winter, they will never be truly sovereign.

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  • 15 comments in c/energy@slrpnk.net view that post
    [–] 19 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    WTF how is natural gas green.... I can understand nuclear but natural gas is quite insane to call green

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [–] [S] 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child)

    I am not too sure I understand what your objection to this article is. Ok gas is considered sustainable under some conditions. This doesn't seen to me like something contradicting that the EU Court ruling on Taxonomy sets a dangerous precedent. For me this is the point.

    Did I get something wrong?

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    This is basically to allow projects to use fossil gas for a bit, until hydrogen or bio methane is available for the project. It takes years to built something like this and 2035 is only a decade away. That is very different from fossil gas is green period.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    Wow. Just... Wow.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (4 children)
    • Coal is 820 to 1050 kg of CO2e per Megawatt Hour

    • Natural gas is 480 kg CO2e per Megawatt Hour

    • Nuclear is 20 to 50 kg CO2e per megawatt-hour

    • Wind is 25 grams of CO2 per Megawatt Hour.

    • Solar is 20-50 grams of CO2 per Megawatt Hour.

    (Numbers should not be considered accurate but relative scale is representative)

    The biggest issue here is that without a significant increase in battery capacity a stable renewable grid is impossible without Natural Gas powered generation.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Forgot about hydropower, the OG and also most reliable renewable

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I didn't want to get into an argument about construction CO2 and emissions from the reservoir.

    But i would certainly class Hydro as green.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    Sure, I get that. Dams often involve lots of concrete, which emits insane CO2 during production; and dams devastates large areas of nature (or human settlements).

    Just felt it weird to state that natural gas is required for a stable renewable power grid, when hydro exists. Wherever hydro is possible, it's almost certainly better than natural gas in most aspects.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    Natural Gas is a fossil fuel. Natural Gas is a fossil fuel. Natural Gas is a fossil fuel.

    Who's selling Natural Gas? Russia. Why would anyone declassify it as a greenhouse gas? So they can buy it from Russia. Who would do such a thing? Nazis that want to make money off of nazi Russia, and support its wars.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    Well that was easy. Now just rule that burning oil and coal is actually just totes OK and we're done! First in the world, completely sustainable!

    Saving the planet has never been this easy!

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    While it's dumb to call it green, it's fine and very useful to use it as part of a transition towards renewables. That's what this is actually about, countries being allowed to use part of the funds for the energy transition for gas.

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