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Things are going swell in some alternate universe where he didn’t miss (lemmy.world)
submitted 1 year ago by to c/politicalmemes@lemmy.world
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[–] 14 points 1 year ago

Single shot through the engine block!

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    [–] 7 points 1 year ago (15 children)

    Nah, things still suck in that alternate universe. Not as badly as they do here, but Harris wasn't going to fix much of anything. She was just going to break fewer things.

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  • [–] 42 points 1 year ago* (11 children)

    Still, that could mean many, many, many less lives lost.

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  • [+] -16 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (9 children)

    Fewer lives lost now, but probably more in the long run. Democrats simply had no answer for the problems plaguing American society, so Trump's death would've just led to the rise of a new fascist demagogue, probably a younger and smarter one.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    ... do you think there's not going to be another fascist demagogue after Trump dies now?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (5 children)

    There absolutely will be, but Trump built his movement on some not-very-solid ground, like protectionism, interventionism abroad+America first and pro-Russianism. These will be inherited by any future fascist leader, who won't be easily able to undo all of them. It'd be worse if from the start you had a competent fascist leader who'd build a competent and more resilient fascist movement.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (4 children)

    There absolutely will be, but Trump built his movement on some not-very-solid ground, like protectionism, interventionism abroad+America first and pro-Russianism.

    The only one of those that isn't inherent to fascism is the pro-Russian orientation.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (3 children)

    Fascists like protectionism and empires, but the exact form of the protectionism and empire could've been much better tailored to the realities of American society. Tne exact same MAGAts cheering on Trump's stance towards Canada and Greenland then chafing under his Middle East policy shows that a clever fascist would only do one of these.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I think you overestimate the latitude fascists have to make policy, given the context of fascism. Any fascist coming to power in the US was naturally going to gravitate away from alignment with our traditional allies - even those as close and cooperative as Canada - and seek bombastic attacks on both traditional allies (showing 'strength') and traditional enemies. Since Russia and Israel are supportive of US fascism, and China is economically powerful, that leaves only a handful of targets.

    Not only that, but where do you get the idea that MAGA chafes under his Middle Eastern policy? The only MAGA that are chafing under his Middle Eastern policy are the actual neonazis who hate Israel for being Jewish, which are a small proportion compared to the Christian nationalists who want Israel to be supported unconditionally to trigger the end times. And don't get me started on what they think about bombing Middle-Eastern countries.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Any fascist coming to power in the US was naturally going to gravitate away from alignment with our traditional allies - even those as close and cooperative as Canada - and seek bombastic attacks on both traditional allies (showing 'strength') and traditional enemies.

    Sure to an extent, but bombastic doesn't have to mean something with immediate material consequences. Attacks that actually and immediately hurt Americans could've easily waited until the fascists consolidated more power. It's telling that project 2025 says almost nothing about tariffs. Shitty rhetoric and threats to annex Greenland and Canada could've come without the tariffs, that last bit was just Trump being delusional. Hell, tariffs against Canada could've come without tariffs against the EU, and both of these could've come without tariffs against China. A more clever fascist would've manages to tick this box without rocking the boat during their consolidation of power.

    The only MAGA that are chafing under his Middle Eastern policy are the actual neonazis who hate Israel for being Jewish, which are a small proportion compared to the Christian nationalists who want Israel to be supported unconditionally to trigger the end times.

    I remember the Iran thing pissing quite a few MAGAs off. That's what I eas referring to, drastic American action in places MAGAts don't really care about is not a popular proposition among MAGA because those guys actually believe in America First.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    Sure to an extent, but bombastic doesn't have to mean something with immediate material consequences. Attacks that actually and immediately hurt Americans could've easily waited until the fascists consolidated more power. It's telling that project 2025 says almost nothing about tariffs. Shitty rhetoric and threats to annex Greenland and Canada could've come without the tariffs, that last bit was just Trump being delusional. Hell, tariffs against Canada could've come without tariffs against the EU, and both of these could've come without tariffs against China. A more clever fascist would've manages to tick this box without rocking the boat during their consolidation of power.

    I dunno, man. I feel like the material consequences don't really matter. Fascism is an anti-materialist ideology. Suffering will be blamed on 'the libs' for as long as it takes. Hell, I've seen prices of some consumer goods increase 25% this year alone, directly related to the tariffs, and still know people (family, unfortunately) who will swear up and down that the economy and prices have improved. Not even hardcore MAGAts (I know at least one despises Trump, specifically, to the point of not voting for him, despite being otherwise horrifically conservative), just your usual, run-of-the-mill rural or semirural Americans.

    People who are trained to do so will almost always prioritize their beliefs over facts.

    I remember the Iran thing pissing quite a few MAGAs off. That's what I eas referring to, drastic American action in places MAGAts don't really care about is not a popular proposition among MAGA because those guys actually believe in America First.

    I promise you, they would all enthusiastically become supporters of war with Iran if it ever became a serious possibility. The "NO FOREIGN WARS" bit is tossed out as soon as the groupthink starts up. I've watched even non-MAGA conservatives do 180s on issues as soon as the propaganda spins up. I've seen people who were seriously considering volunteering in Ukraine at the start of the war, and vocal supporters of Ukrainian aid, turn into total opponents of Ukrainian military aid (despite still supporting Israeli aid).

    Propaganda and community consensus are powerful things, and more powerful amongst conservatives than most.

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  • [–] 20 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Harris wouldn't have driven the country into the challenge deep and completely destroyed or standing across the entire globe while also alienating virtually all of our trading partners while simultaneously erecting concentration camps

    But yeah no she wouldn't have done enough good things so basically not much different

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago

    There's nothing quite like being told that the worsening of the lives of millions of people, both in America and abroad, isn't a big deal because the other choice wouldn't have radically improved our shitty society.

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