AI bro discovering imagination (piefedimages.s3.eu-central-003.backblazeb2.com)
 
Someone should study how diving into Al makes us absorb its capabilities. When I hit ~50k image prompts, I noticed something insane: Simply *thinking of* a prompt would cause images to "appear" in my mind. Hard to explain—It's like I "see" it MENTALLY without seeing it visually.

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[–] 245 points 1 year ago (1 child)

I'm having a hard time telling if this is trolling or idiocy.

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  • [–] 106 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Imagination was discovered by John Imagine in 2023 when he tried to run a genAI prompt but forgot to turn on the computer

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  • [–] 49 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Pretty sure it was actually discovered by John Lennon in 1971 when he took some drugs but forgot to take some drugs.

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  • [–] 35 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    You're actually both right, Lennon actually took so many drugs that he astral projected to the 2020s. He tried to use chat gpt while he was projecting into the future, but he didn't know what a computer was so he didn't turn it on

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  • [–] 152 points 1 year ago (13 children)

    As someone with aphantasia: I wish it did.

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  • [–] 99 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Maybe spending hours upon hours producing AI slop is the cure?

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  • [–] 54 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Well I guess I will never be cured then.

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  • [–] 29 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    Do you get the Tetris effect where after playing you dream of Tetris?

    I wonder if this guy ai slo op led the same thing

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  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    When I first got the game Factorio, for the first week, I was having full on hallucinations of the little conveyor belt arrows twisting and snaking all over my vision when I closed my eyes. Even when I blinked, id get a flash of some grotesque squirming abomination. Scared the shit outta me because I'd never experienced that before nor even heard of it. I was relieved when I learned it was a known thing but it was still distracting as all hell.

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  • [–] 16 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    I wouldn't know, it's extremely rare that I remembrer my dreams.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I almost never do either, and I am aphantasiac as well. I wonder if that is related.

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  • [–] 79 points 1 year ago (34 children)

    This has to be satire please God

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  • [–] 34 points 1 year ago (31 children)

    Could also be part of a significant portion of people have undiagnosed aphantasia.

    Learning that some people can't mentally visualize anything, but pictures of memories that they can't modify since they have no imagination felt wild.

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  • [–] 22 points 1 year ago (25 children)

    Aphant here! I would actually love your theory to be true but unfortunately no amount of training or practicing makes me better or even able to visualise. Believe me, I spent many years trying and practicing art before I heard about aphantasia and realised thats what I have.

    If I looked at 10k slop pictures and their corresponding prompts I wouldn't be able to imagine the outputs any more than I already can (which is not at all).

    Likewise I can't do meditation or self-hypnosis where the guide says stuff like "imagine you're lying on a beach" etc. At least it makes me immune to those stage hypnotists who try to get someone suggestible up on stage.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (17 children)

    It's so trippy to me because I'm opposite of that. If I'm daydreaming, I see the worlds inside my head almost as clearly as the real world, to the point where they overlap. I can be looking at a street in the real world and wherever my daydream is taking me, I see that as well on top of the real world.

    I find it both fascinating and hard to imagine (ironically) how someone could see absolutely nothing in their head if someone told them to think of a tree growing out of a lake or a car that is also a three story house.

    If there is one thing that upsets me about living, it's that I will only ever experience the world once and through one perspective.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (11 children)

    Speaking only from my own experience as someone with almost-total aphantasia (I definitely dream visually, and when I get very tired I can sometimes see fleeting things with my eyes closed, with almost no control over what), I have found I have a very strong spatial memory and imagination. When someone asks me to imagine an apple, I get no picture, but I can still have awareness of/can sense its shape and position relative to me. I can feel a shape spin in my head. It's as though there is some particular step between "add the object to the environment, conceptually" and "render the object" that doesn't happen for me.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    So... You kind of percieve a symbolic representation of space, a sort of platonic ideal version? Must be a very different experience for you to read books than it is for me.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I wrote this up for another comment, so I'll put it as a reply to yours, too, so you get a notification about it:


    In my time, I have played a fair amount of Dungeons & Dragons (and other such games), including "running" as a Game Master. The planning and narrating of locations is something I feel like would be greatly benefitted by having actual visual imagination. When I learned about aphantasia as a thing (and came to realize that when people talked about picturing something in their head, they were being a lot more literal than I realized was possible), one friend of mine wondered how I could do what I've done running those games, describing places aloud from my head, etc. without visual imagination. I said I don't know, but that he should consider how much better it might have been if I could picture things.

    As far as maybe getting you closer to my experience:

    Look at some table or other small pieces of furniture near you. Think about what you are doing with normal visual processing - your eyes are getting simple brightness/color signals from incoming photons.

    Those get sent to your brain, and a few layers of processing happen - this region is square or rhombus shaped, this region is darker, this part is narrow and tall. Another layer maybe predicts the parts you can't see and gives you a sense of the table's thickness at various points (legs, main surface).

    One layer/process considers how the trapezoid shape you see as the surface is actually a square/rectangle, and the apparent width changes based on the distance of that part of the table. All this happens without you having to think much about it, and you end up with not just a simple map of "this square is dark brown, this trapezoid is grayish" but a sense of a whole complex object.

    Now, take that multi-layered sense of the table and try to focus just on the physical shape of it, your sense of where each part exists in space. Try to "imagine"/consider the table as an object you sense the presence and shape of, and then also imagine it to be invisible. You still know it's there, you have awareness of where you could walk without hitting it, how you could crawl under it, how far you should lower an object in your hand before letting it go so as to set it on the table rather than either dropping it or slamming it down.

    If any of that clicked for you, that probably approximates the experience of non-visually imagining something solely spatially. Basically, everything the visual experience would tell you about the object, except now pretend it's invisible.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    If I could have your brain for a day, I would, so I could experience what it's like for you! I'm so curious about how differently people think. It's kinda like how I can somewhat picture what it might feel like to be a man or a plant or non-human animal, but I can never know for sure. There are these experiences that we just will never get to have due to our own physical limitations and it's a bit frustrating to me.

    I think I can imagine what it's like for you, based on your description, but I will never know for sure. So frustrating!

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    In my time, I have played a fair amount of Dungeons & Dragons (and other such games), including "running" as a Game Master. The planning and narrating of locations is something I feel like would be greatly benefitted by having actual visual imagination. When I learned about aphantasia as a thing (and came to realize that when people talked about picturing something in their head, they were being a lot more literal than I realized was possible), one friend of mine wondered how I could do what I've done running those games, describing places aloud from my head, etc. without visual imagination. I said I don't know, but that he should consider how much better it might have been if I could picture things.

    As far as maybe getting you closer to my experience:

    Look at some table or other small pieces of furniture near you. Think about what you are doing with normal visual processing - your eyes are getting simple brightness/color signals from incoming photons.

    Those get sent to your brain, and a few layers of processing happen - this region is square or rhombus shaped, this region is darker, this part is narrow and tall. Another layer maybe predicts the parts you can't see and gives you a sense of the table's thickness at various points (legs, main surface).

    One layer/process considers how the trapezoid shape you see as the surface is actually a square/rectangle, and the apparent width changes based on the distance of that part of the table. All this happens without you having to think much about it, and you end up with not just a simple map of "this square is dark brown, this trapezoid is grayish" but a sense of a whole complex object.

    Now, take that multi-layered sense of the table and try to focus just on the physical shape of it, your sense of where each part exists in space. Try to "imagine"/consider the table as an object you sense the presence and shape of, and then also imagine it to be invisible. You still know it's there, you have awareness of where you could walk without hitting it, how you could crawl under it, how far you should lower an object in your hand before letting it go so as to set it on the table rather than either dropping it or slamming it down.

    If any of that clicked for you, that probably approximates the experience of non-visually imagining something solely spatially. Basically, everything the visual experience would tell you about the object, except now pretend it's invisible.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago* (3 children)

    The very tired imagery when going to bed is Hypnagogia and isn't visualizing, it's more akin to dreaming which also isn't visualizing.

    If those 2 things are why you think you aren't a total aphant, you're probably a total aphant.

    I'm a total aphant as well.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Good to know, re: hypnagogia. I've occasionally tried experimenting with it when I think to, while floating near sleep. I've weirdly found that moving my eyes certain ways, or focusing my eyes to certain distances, while I'm near sleep (eyes closed) can make it feel very suddenly like I can see something. My intent was to find what seemed to work in that state and see if I could use such techniques while more awake, but if you're right, then that presumably won't be as successful as I'd hoped.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I've tried to work with things in that state as well thinking maybe it could translate as well. Its a very interesting state though. If I try too hard it'll wake me up and go away. If i don't try enough, nothing happens, but when it's just right, I can somewhat influence it.

    I've had some success in the past transitioning into lucid dreaming from that state as well.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    I have the same problem losing both the temporary hypnagogic visualization and lucid dreams, rare as the latter even are for me: it's so easy to do something silly, like pay too much attention to it or get excited about it, and BAM, it's been destroyed.

    I did have one occasion where the hypnagogic thing had mild success when I tried to imagine something non-stationary, in this case sort of watching landscape go by as if I were in a car watching it through gaps between concrete pillars in a bridge railing.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    That's kind of wild. I can't visualise anything in my head. My internal monologue and thoughts are entirely symbolic and linguistic.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    Yeah, for some folks aphantasia comes with weakness/absence of other kinds of imagination, like audio or spatial, and for others it doesn't. I feel like I have a decent sense of audio imagination - I can "play back" a memory of a song, and my experience is like a ghost of hearing. It is as though there is a second set of ears somewhere in my head that doesn't "feel" the same as originally hearing it, but elements of the song I never really thought much of - maybe an audio glitch in the recording or a quirk of the voice or some non-instrument sound effect - also play back as just part of this "flat", single-layer stream.

    I never really thought much until now that I might have a duller audio imagination than others, because what I do have is at least closer to the experience of hearing than my spatial sense is to seeing.

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  • I have gotten to the point that I could design furniture in a spreadsheet. That's mostly what I do already; I'll design it in FreeCAD, I use the Spreadsheet workbench as a table of all critical dimensions, and then I'll build the CAD model from there, but I draw less and less of the model. I usually just take a copy of the dimension spreadsheet with me into the workshop, very rarely relying on drawings unless I've got some intricate joinery to lay out.

    I'm working on a case for my grandfather's flag, and I modeled a part of the thing as a sanity check.

    I might just do it as a challenge to myself, design and build a piece of furniture in LibreOffice.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    That last paragraph really hits me. I wish I could experience either of your perspectives as someone in a middle ground. My mental pictures are like theyre made of smoke. They form and quickly warp and dissipate. They also take effort to form

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    The way you describe your mental images sounds equally beautiful and frustrating haha. I can relate, actually! When I have racing thoughts, it's like everything is flickering in my mind, thousands of images and I can't hold on to any of them. Maybe it's not so much smoke in my case, but more like a vicious hailstorm, hitting your face all at once like little projectiles.

    I prefer daydreaming to that scenario. It's easier to slow down if I'm going through stories in my mind that I want to write. That's when I see two "realities" at the same time. But when it's just thoughts, like random everyday thoughts, it's like a slideshow on speed and oh, let's also add a random song and play that on top over and over. There was a month where I had the Burrito Burrito Taco Taco song from South Park stuck in my head 24/7. So fucked, man. Many years ago my boyfriend told me that he didn't always think of something. That sometimes his head is just empty, in zen mode and he's relaxing. I thought he was joking because don't everybody have projectile-thoughts in their heads all the time? Nope. Not everybody has. And not everybody see words and numbers in colors with texture and taste either.

    Brains are so chaotic and strange and unique and wonderful ❤️

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Can you imagine other senses like the heat of beach sand?

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    I can't. Scents, tastes, and sounds are out too. When I am aware of having dreams (which is rare) I don't ever remember any actual sensory information, just concepts. Those concepts can be quite detailed, but it's the idea of them rather than the perception of them

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    I can only imagine sounds. I also have no visual memory either. I can only remember a description of how something looked which means I also have near total face blindness. My wife jokes that I should always keep a photo of her around because if she ever went missing I wouldn't be able to tell the police what she looked like.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    That last bit may also be you someone who can't easily enter trace. There are less visual guided meditations (i like energy work which involves tactile imagination), but some people just struggle with the mental state guided meditation aims for

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I don't know if training would help alone, forcing your brain to create new neuronal connections is probably necessary.

    Personally that came from deep painful emotional instances in my early life where I had nowhere else to hide but within myself. I have 3d imagination in which I can create full environment and caracters. It is entirely different from dreaming that I remember while waking up,. Memories or half awake dreams that I make operational decisions.

    I actually had the reverse issue of you. I had to learn not to imagine what was discussed, saw or dreamed since some people would discuss things I didn't want to imagine. It made my memory worse though.

    https://youtube.com/@codeparade

    Since finding this developer, I have been trying to visualize 3D environmental as 4D. I can create some new axial rotation, but I am still trying to determine how to find the actual 4th vectorial rotation in objects. Unusual problem to have I guess.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    When I learned that there are humans out there who can't picture even simple things within their minds, I felt confused.

    I was able to create entire worlds before going to bed when I was a kid, fantasy worlds to explore.

    I thought all humans could picture things in their minds.

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  • [–] -3 points 1 year ago*

    All people can unless they are in the extreme minority that suffer from highly particular neuropathic disorders that render them absolutely dysfunctional as human beings. Having a weak drive for creativity and imagination is not the same as suffering from a clinical incapability.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Ive only recently been able to visualise things, but only when im close to sleeping. My wife got annoyed at me when I first discovered it because I couldnt stop laughing at the amount of detail I was able to make on a fence. Only problem is now when im awake and unable to do it, im more aware of the ability I dont have.

    Also, people who can just make shit up and see it in their heads, how do they get anything done? I feel like id just be imagining stuff all day long

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    people who can just make shit up and see it in their heads, how do they get anything done? I feel like id just be imagining stuff all day long

    Yep, that's literally what daydreaming is. People do it all the time, especially kids at school. I spent most of primary school exploring fantasy worlds in my head, while the teachers were trying to snap me out of it.

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  • [–] 39 points 1 year ago (16 children)
  • [–] 20 points 1 year ago

    It's Twitter, so there's an excellent chance this is manipulative engagement bait. But it would be really, really interesting if heavy usage of AI image gen proved to be an effective kind of visualization "exposure therapy" for people with aphantasia. We've never before had the ability to so quickly and reliably convert words to images, so maybe experiencing that connection on demand a few thousand times is enough to activate those mental pathways for people who lack them? The closest we've had up to now is a Google Image search, and those results are much more varied, not as precisely tailored to the search term, and not something that people generally do over and over again for leisure.

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  • [+] 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (12 children)
  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    That sucks. How do you handle / have you handled art projects in school?

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  • [+] 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)
  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    That is insanely fascinating! And it's super cool to me that you found ways to work with it, to the point where you didn't even notice you had it! Ever since I learned about this a few years ago, I've been wondering if a childhood friend had it. She always had to draw or find pictures of things before she could decide if she liked how they look. One time we had to pick a flower that we liked from a provided list of flowers. We'd all seen them before (common flowers to our residence), but she had to look up each one in a book, before she knew which one she liked. I was describing them to her, so she wouldn't have to look them up, and she knew that this was the red one that grows outside the school and that one was the blue one that grows in the park and so on, and she still had to look them up. After your comment, I'm almost positive she had it and no one knew. The human mind is fascinating!

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    you might think "oh yeah that is a terrible idea to put these two concepts together" whereas me i can't tell that

    You know what's funny? Even though I can visualize things internally, I imagine it being better than I can make it in real life. Especially woodworking, I end up making mistakes at the design level. When two pieces of wood don't sit flush because I bungled the proportions in my mind, oh it's the worst.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Always wanted to ask, do you read fiction? It's like watching a movie for me, can't imagine reading would be any fun otherwise.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    Also have it, the fun parts of fiction for me are the dialog and (being a scifi nerd) the thought experiments. Most of my reading focuses heaviest on what's being said by the characters - which, luckily, happens to be where most of the meat occurs anyway. Long descriptive sections just kinda go by like white noise, though I try to catch and remember any important notes that may be referred to later, but more as concepts - e.g., "big wall" as a concept, not an image. If you ask me for the physical description of a character in a book in which they have been physically described, odds are high I'd come up empty, but I could probably give you a solid summary of their character as they have acted and based on what they've said.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    People with aphantasia may not realize that most people can “see” images they generate in their minds. Some with aphantasia say they thought using the word “see” in that context was a metaphor.

    The evidence just keeps stacking for me

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    What killed me is when people say like "picture yourself on a beach" and people are actually just doing that. My whole life it was a metaphor

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    I think I've slightly frustrated people when they asked me something like "how do you think this chair will look in the corner of the living room?" and all I really could say was "yeah it's a nice chair, has about the same colour as the sofa"

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