cross-posted from: https://sh.itjust.works/post/40069678

Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth appeared to acknowledge that the Pentagon has developed plans to take over Greenland and Panama by force if necessary but refused to answer repeated questions at a hotly combative congressional hearing Thursday about his use of Signal chats to discuss military operations.

Democratic members of the House Armed Services Committee repeatedly got into heated exchanges with Hegseth, with some of the toughest lines of questioning coming from military veterans as many demanded yes or no answers and he tried to avoid direct responses about his actions as Pentagon chief.

In one back-and-forth, Hegseth did provide an eyebrow-raising answer. Rep. Adam Smith, D-Wash., asked whether the Pentagon has developed plans to take Greenland or Panama by force if necessary.

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[–] 15 points 1 year ago (4 children)

There is literally no scenario in which it could possibly be "necessary" to invade Greenland.

How long are people going to continue to pretend that the US is not being governed by malicious lunatics?

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Actually there is, and the plans most likely predate Trump's first term. The US military has all kinds of plans to invade every square foot of land on earth.

    The military had a shitload of plans on how to respond to Soviet military advances, including occupying strategically important locations like Greenland (for a forward base) and Panama (to disrupt shipping/commerce). The US Space Force (ugh) has a base on Greenland already, because it is a strategic location. If the USSR was able to occupy it first, it would be necessary to retake the area and they spent decades coming up with all kinds of plans for different scenarios!

    So this is 100% Pete using something that already existed and promoting it as something the current administration came up with and mischaracterizing the reason that it exists in the first place.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Greenland would always more likely ask to be 'strategically occupied' than risk being invaded by Sovjet forces. I think that still holds true today. Since you can only be invaded against your will, i don't really agree that the scenario you mention can be considered 'a necessary invasion' because the scenario in which you are invited by the host country is very very different to the scenario when you're going there uninvited.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    Developed plans?

    What's that?

    Just "invasion" written in crayon on a map over probably the wrong countries?

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    If this is true, why hasn't it leaked on signal yet?

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago*

    I don’t condone alcoholism, but this loser can go drown in a barrel of bottom shelf bourbon.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    Europe needs to get rid of US dependencies. If a war were to start, their army would be helpless after the US shuts it off remotely. The entire economy of the EU would can also just be turned off by presidential order.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Admittedly, most countries have wild plans; a family friend helped update Canada's plans to counter attack America a few years back.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    How is this 'defence'?

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    Mr. Binge n' Leaks couldn't have made it any more clearer, they will invade Greenland once Greenland does not concede to their rule.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    This is why the EU needs its own army, and to guard Greenland. All EU lands belong to the EU!

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  • 81 comments in c/news@lemmy.world view that post
    [–] 101 points 1 year ago (11 children)

    how can it be necessary to invade a country?

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  • [–] 29 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    Resources. The answer is always resources.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Idk, the gdp of Greenland is only 3b a year and it's mostly from fishing. There's really nothing the US could extract from Greenland that would be worth the cost of invading it. There's some potential for mining, but you'd have to build an entire infrastructure to do it, and we don't even want to invest in building infrastructure in the US.

    Realistically the only thing that makes Greenland strategically important would be controlling the shipping lanes up north. However, the only strategically significant rival we have that utilizes those shopping lanes are Russia, whom the administration wants to buddy up too.

    I think it's just meat they throw out to the media anytime they want to distract from their failures, and of course our pathetic press just gobbles it up every time.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Lots of great reasons that aren't the actual reason.

    Greenland is very big on the map, and if it was apart of the United States then the US would look so big on the map.

    Everyone says Trajan was the best roman emperor because the roman empire had the largest amount of territory under him, ergo if Greenland or Canada became part of the US then everyone would say the same thing about Trump.

    That is the only reasoning behind this obsession.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    Greenland probably has a shit ton of minerals that could be mined, but it takes investment and capital and labour to extract it where greenland is just fine with fishing. It's population is pretty small.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    The Danish news ran a story as to why Greenland was so important to Trump.

    Apparently the special deal we did with the Americans in 1949 or whatever is tied to NATO membership. The US presence on the island is entirely dependent upon them being a member of NATO. Were the Americans to withdraw they'd have to shut down Pituffik and give up all their interests in the Arctic.

    As to why Greenland is important - apart from the hope that resources can be extracted in a profitabel way - is, as you say, the northern shipping lanes (and theoretically the Russian military threat) as well as various possibilities with the changing climate. And of course it's a classic "mine is bigger than yours" contest

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    [–] 64 points 1 year ago (16 children)

    This by no means diminishes this guy’s level of evil stupidity, but I’m entirely certain the pentagon had developed plans for all kinds of batshit insane shenanigans, including (but not limited to) invasions of probably most other countries in the world.

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  • [–] 27 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    I think they have alien invasion plans.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (4 children)
  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Zombies, aliens, Zeus and the gods of Olympus attacking Pearl Harbor…if you can imagine it there’s a folder in the Pentagon somewhere with general plans

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    These people are too stupid and incompetent to realize we already have plans for everything.

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  • [–] 23 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    Hegseth: You there! Jackson! I want plans on how to invade Greenland on my desk by the end of the week!

    Johnson: [Looks at filing cabinet full of plans for invading every other country] Oh, yeah, sure thing, sir. Gonna be a few all-nighters, though. Me and the boys are gonna need some pizzas and a few bottles of Mountain Dew and some cinnamon dipperz.

    Hegseth: No problem! Just take it out of the Preventing Kids From Being Thrown Into The Orphan Crushing Machine fund! You're a good man Jackson!

    Johnson: Sir, yes sir.

    Hegseth: [takes enormous swig out of family-sized plastic bottle of bourbon]

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Frankly, good planning is the key to success at just about anything in life. The concept of having plans is not evil at all. And certainlynot in a military sense. What if Greenland got taken over by vampires? You don’t know. In that event, it would be good to have this plan on the books. Probably in no other circumstance besides that one but hey, there’s not anything wrong with having a plan.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child)

    I find that a credible thought, though one would imagine an answer to say that they try to have plans for any concevaiable scenario, no matter how unlikely, and have done so for years.

    One would imagine if he was good at this politics thing, he would have found an answer to distance such plans from the current contentious situation.

    And upon reading, he said precisely that...

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  • [–] 28 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    I wonder if Denmark regrets this yet (arc)

    With 94 votes in favor and only 11 against, the Danish parliament last night (June 11) passed a new defense agreement granting the United States extended access to military bases in three Danish cities: Karup, Skrydstrup, and Aalborg. The deal allows the US military to operate from these sites, store military equipment, conduct maintenance, exercises, and station personnel. The US forces will also have autonomous legal jurisdiction over their own military, relieving them from compliance with Danish law in the first degree.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Oh trust me, the Danish people find this highly criricisable. It's been debated a lot over the past months - but the government - which is made up of the neoliberal parties who's always had their tongues way up USA's ass - has done everything they can to push it under the rug and to make it as secretive as possible. These people see only profit and the thought of "losing" USA as a partner is worse than the fact that we just invited the enemy in - with a deal where they can do whatever they want to do and we can't even take them to court. Officially it's because of "the Russian threat" but the only country that'd ever invade Denmark or has ever threatened to do so is USA.. Russia has a few other countries to go through and they can't even win their current war.

    We've just always been an American puppet state.

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  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    What is wrong with these morons.

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  • [–] 18 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Well, there are "plans" and then there are plans. I'm certain Canada has a "plan" for military operations against the US should that be necessary, but we aren't planning it.

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago (11 children)

    Have they said why they're so obsessed over Greenland? I don't mean why you think they want it, i mean has any of them ever said why?

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I think they've said for strategic military reasons (don't know what's wrong with all the EU bases we have) but likely it's because of natural resources. Typical authoritarian shit.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    ice, global warming, melty melt, geologists would have a rsging boner whats there becoming accessible

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    Maybe oil & gas or mineral geologists. Scientific geologists, like all other scientists, are horrified at the stark changes due to global warming. A few years ago it rained for the first time on record at summit station, historically it was always snow. Now it's warm enough to rain.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago* (3 children)

    The word on the street is that Peter Thiel and friends wan't it for a tech bro network state, with no regulation on AI (as in LLMs) and other tech fantasies.

    Don't have a link, but it's public known that Thiel and friends wan't it, and that they seem to have the man in power in on it.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    The Mercator projection made Greenland look very big on the map.

    People tend to equate when a country or empire has the most territory as it being at it's height.

    It's a vanity thing. He wants to see the words 'The United States of America was at it's territorial peak under President Donald Trump' echo through history.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    Significant presence in the Arctic circle which may become more valuable with some climate change and/or closer relationship with Russia.

    At least that's what I'd guess. Similar story with Canada, more land to have a better chance to respond to climate change.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago

    It's less weird to have a contingency plan than it is to specifically mention it.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    The US wants to attack a NATO partner?!?! Krasnov is working for the Kremlin to destabilize NATO.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago

    It's not necessary to take Greenland at all, so there's no need for a contingency plan. "if necessary" makes no sense.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (12 children)

    A quick search shows Greenlands population is 56,865. In what world would 56 thousand people, half of which are likely incapable of fighting due to age or sickness, be of any meaningful threat that we would need 'contingency' plans against them. Even if all 56 thousand could fight it would be a non war lasting hours against the military. That gigantic country has a similar population of my home COUNTY.

    This shit is dumber than invading the middle east over oil. Is their hard on for... minerals and err... resources? Im not entirely sure why they want Greenland so much. This is stupid.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    The contingency plan probably isn't about the people at all. It's likely the government has had a plan for a long time, maybe since WWII, about any number of countries including Greenland. Strategic points to either destroy or control. How to repel an invading force as well as how to invade against a repelling force.

    That's who the US has become over the last 80 years.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    So wait, your saying it's about the golden dome or trumps anti nuke wall or whatever i gods name he was talking about.

    I stand by the "this is stupid" comment.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    No, it has nothing to do with the "Golden Dome" nonsense.

    The US did all sorts of war game scenarios and plan making during and directly after WWII and they've never stopped.

    There's actually probably a lot of countries who have done the same, though I'm not sure to the extent the US has.

    The fact that the US has a plan like this by itself isn't newsworthy. Who it's coming from makes it noteworthy because, while the plan may have been created decades ago, it's a very unsubtle threat against another nation.

    I agree that this is stupid, but understanding is important because this is how they weasel out of things. If confronted or challenged they'll say, "Oh, that plan was put together decades ago." Everything they do is done with cover because not only are they fascists, they're cowards too.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (6 children)

    Denmark is a NATO country and Greenland is part of it. As soon as we attack all of NATO is obligated to attack us. They can start non violet by stopping all trade and dumping the dollar crashing our economy.

    Even just to the Greenlanders could be a real problem.

    People sabatogue blow up poison and casually murder you after giving in.

    We can't murder everyone and the us has been shown to be very intolerant to a few thousand troop deaths not to mention civilian deaths on their side live on TV

    It would absolutely be a cluster fuck worse than Iraq

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    NATO members can't interfere in conflicts between NATO members, only in conflicts between NATO and non-NATO. NATO is a cold war relic designed to be used against the Warsaw Pact countries, not some universal defense and peace instrument. Right now it's either useless or a tool for western imperialism.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (3 children)

    This statement is based on nothing.

    Article 5

    The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognised by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area.

    https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/official_texts_17120.htm

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    That says nothing about attacks of NATO members on NATO members and there are precedents like Turkey taking over and occupying half of Cyprus leading to war between members Greece and Turkey where the other useless members did absolutely nothing because the standard interpretation is that NATO doesn't protect members from other members. Stop making up theories and spreading misinformation.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    It says that members will fight those who attack other members of the group. It doesn't have to say it specifically its blatantly obvious through a plain reading of the text. The absolute minimum action would be Greenlanders violently resisting and murdering soldiers. Denmark attacking the US to prevent the murder of their citizens and others providing financial support whilst dumping US dollars and sanctioning the US.

    1 year in we have 5000 dead US soldiers and a cratered economy, our own citizens are calling military babykillers again, and are suing for peace not because they beat us militarily but because we ruined our own shit.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago

    Okay so it says nothing about member on member attacks and historical precedence demonstrates neutrality but you invented an interpretation. It also doesn't say that NATO members are obligated to help defenders and not attackers, there's also historical precedence of NATO attacking therefore members would be free to assist the USA in your scenario since NATO supposedly fights other NATO countries.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago

    So Russia is going to test article 5, and so is the US. Interesting.

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  • [+] 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [–] [S] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    If you look close at his bottom lip there's a matching red mark. It almost looks like he was in a fight and took a shot to the mouth.

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  • [+] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)
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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago

    did he hear they have booze there or something?

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    We have contingency plans to invade just about every country on earth, if we didn't military planners wouldn't be doing their job

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Fingers crossed for a space alien invasion.

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  • "Oh shit, we're getting hammered with our Constitutional violations all over the news! We have to do something"

    A little thinking, then some genius looks across the room

    "Hey!! Hegseth, finish that drink and then go threaten Greenland like the alcoholic Nazi you are. That'll distract them!"

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago
    [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Everyone has contigency plans for war with their neighbors and allies.

    the difference between Most of the world, and Agressive countries like Russia, America, Israel, Iran and China, is that the rest of the world generally has those plans be "if Attacked by X, We will do Y"

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