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[–] 89 points 1 year ago (11 children)
  • [–] 31 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Bring me picture of Allah!

    …oh nooooo

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  • [–] 30 points 1 year ago (3 children)
  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    thats not allah though, thats muhammad. No muslim believes he is Allah like christians believe Jesua being god himself

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    You’re right, the details were slightly off, but it still doesn’t change the fact that murdering someone over a cartoon because you think a book said you had to is absolutely unhinged behavior.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago*

    I don't think any muslim believes the quran says not to depict muhammad. The idea is that since christians worshipped the messenger over the actual god man himself they were like "we will not worship false idols like the christians" etc. I don't know any muslim that says they shouldn't depict muhammad because the quran says it.

    I only post this stuff to combat ignorance on part of people who don't learn islam. I'm not a muslim, but I at least try to understand it. It's very hard to argue against something you don't understand.

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  • [–] 30 points 1 year ago (4 children)
  • [–] 62 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    The spiderman scriptures have pictures, so I'm going with that one

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  • [–] 50 points 1 year ago*
    1. The Devil infamously appears in Spider-Man.

    2. The Devil is (mostly) canon in the Christian multiverse.

    3. I met Spider-Man at my 8 year old birthday party.

    Conclusion: All 3 are real, or I'm not real. Advances in ontology necessary to say with certainty.

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  • [+] 38 points 1 year ago (1 child)
    [–] 34 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Isn't it the same god in the first two as well?

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    Bunch of heathens following Ben Reilly /s

    The problem is the theology doesn't match, there is no common god of Christians, Jews, and Muslims because Christians believe Jesus is god and divine and neither of the others do meaning their god's identity is different. Christians and Jews believe the Quran contains lies, Muslims and Jews believe the Christian bible contains lies, and Christians and Muslims believe the Jewish bible contains lies. Hell even within each there are sects that believe different things about god, like Christians who believe they are saved by being chosen, by faith alone, or by faith and works. These are unreconcilable differences that change based on their beliefs about their god.

    Religions when formed usually branch from an existing religion (e.g. Christianity started as a Jewish apocalyptic cult, Mormon branches from that, etc), but change the theology enough so that the old clergy/church is no longer valid wrt the new faith position.

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  • [–] 24 points 1 year ago

    Pastor: With great power...

    Congregation: comes great responsibility

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  • [–] 16 points 1 year ago

    This argument fails to account for how I feel. Reading Spiderman makes me want to be a better person.

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  • [+] 28 points 1 year ago (10 children)
  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    You say that as though the type of person who makes posts like this respects religious people enough to investigate and find that out.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    Leaving aside whether or not "allah" is just Arab for "god" and not their God's actual name, and assuming that by God you mean JHWH from the Bible, they definitely aren't the same God. JHWH has a son (Jesus Christ) and Muslims are quite definitive about Allah NOT having a son.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    JHWH-s within christianity varies so ridiculously that it is virtually doltish to call it the same god

    Islam started off judaism, so did Christianity and muslims hold the tenets of christianity sacred; only disagreeing on very few points like the trinity… Which again is also a massively disagreed point within christian branches…

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  • [–] 35 points 1 year ago (20 children)
  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    "If god not exist, who is deleting the comments?!" lol

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

    honest question, why did that guy delete his comment? I'm assuming someone else saw it

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  • [+] 1 point 1 year ago (15 children)
  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago (14 children)

    deleted by creator

    At least not deleted by the creator, huh?

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago* (13 children)

    Ah, but in my language (German) it says "Ersteller", which merely means "producer". A divine creator would be called "Schöpfer" which Germans exclusively use for creators that create rather magnificient or special things. Like art. Or universes. :)

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (12 children)

    Hm, so you're saying the universe might be German? That explains it: it's over-engineered, over-rated, yet unreliable and full of bad ideas.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (11 children)

    Actually, quite the opposite - I'm pointing out that the German language is better at making the distinction between a true act of creation and something as trivial as writing a comment on Lemmy.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (10 children)

    So do we, creator vs Creator. But since there's no such thing as a god or "Creator", it's really irrelevant.

    Can we talk about your shitty cars now?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (9 children)

    It'd sure be interesting to hear how you can pronounce capitalized words. Works in Terry Pratchett's discworld novels, not sure how you pull that one off though.

    Also, I never built a car. Sorry.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (8 children)

    Typical German reply. If you can't pronounce capitalized words, why is your written language full of them?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (7 children)

    Written German capitalizes all nouns, which you probably already knew, given your apparent obsession with German stereotypes. Doesn't change the fact that you just tried to tell me "creator" and "Creator" are two different nouns just because you capitalized one of them.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (6 children)

    Well, guess what Detective Bosch, nouns can refer to more than one thing. And in English, the language of discourse, you capitalize nouns if they refer to a title. Like detective or Detective.

    But since you can't tell when it's pronounced, you can tell in two ways: the German way is you YELL IT, or .... and this is going to be tough for a German, you can tell from context.

    I'll give you a break now, probably time for you to get back to ze factory and make more shitty cars.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (5 children)

    Well, you yell it if you're actually Austrian and you wear a silly little moustache to make up for having one ball.

    I'm sure you're familiar with trying to make up for personal deficiencies of any kind by other behaviors, such as trying to provoke me into reacting aggressively to your constant attempts to insult me using my German nationality.

    You'd be surprised how little I care, because I don't view myself as a German but as a European. But in case you've been unhappy with one of our cars you bought and that's what made you so resentful towards Germans, thanks for the cash nonetheless.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (4 children)

    You care exactly three paragraph's worth.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (3 children)

    I find this little dialogue entertaining, so it's probably not the kind of caring you imagine.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    I'll keep replying to you as long as I think it might be amusing. But honestly you seem to have run out of ideas. So no guarantees there. As for your attempts of somehow making me angry by using German stereotypes, that's not gonna work cause I truly do not care about those.

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    [–] 18 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    this is why I think my ancestors got it right

    that thing that the others call god, we called it the great mystery, Wakan Tanka

    you aren't going to make any more sense of it beyond that so don't waste your life trying. the grasshopper has as much chance to understand the Internet as we have to understand what life means

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  • This is the most honest, respectful take I think I’ve come across. I find it very healthy to think and feel in this way. We live on a ball of soil and water, orbiting a ball of fire - and that whole thing is drifting through a vast expanse that’s just as mysterious.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago

    You gotta wait a couple hundred years. It’s like making whiskey

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (1 child)
  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Oh god, are we doing Reddit Atheism on Lemmy now? This sucks shit

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

    What's more annoying than a Reddit atheist? Paying taxes to support your redacted church

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago (14 children)

    why are internet atheists so embarrassing man... this is literally the same thing as showing a physics book and saying "proof that physics exists" thinking you made an excellent point.

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  • [–] 17 points 1 year ago* (10 children)

    Thing about physics books, you can literally go and prove every single claim in them by yourself, if you have the required technical and intellectual capabilities.

    That's why they're fundamentally different to the quran, the bible and Spiderman. Those three consist to a large extent of completely unfalsifiable claims.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    that's why it's a stupid way to make the point. the image just says "they believe it because a book exists" which is not true.

    also it's one thing to not have respect for religion but you gotta respect the hyphen; it's spider-man.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    The image doesn't say "they believe it because a book exists."

    The image says "they think the existence of the book is proof of its contents."

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  • [–] -2 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    no it doesn't. because it wouldn't make sense to add spider-man in that case.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago*

    Bible believers and quran believers actually do point at their books and claim they are proof of their religion. No spider-man (there, I added the hyphen for you) reader, religious or not, big comic nerd or not, would ever say the comic is proof of spider-man's existence because of course that's ridiculous. So adding spider-man to this meme does make a lot of sense - putting them in contrast, hoping to make people understand how illogical it is to treat certain man made works of fiction so completely differently than others.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    You're so close but still missing the point.

    The spider-man comic is supposed to be the silly, unbelievable example. It's not supposed to make sense. People don't believe in spider-man just because there's books about him, but they do believe in God/Allah for that reason. But that's a silly reason to believe in anything. That much is obvious with spider-man, as you seem to understand. It's less obvious with people's dieties for some reason.

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  • [–] -2 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    oh my god, it's a baby's analogy. you yourself are saying people don't do this with this book but do it with that book. so it's by definition a bad example. also, at first the argument was "the meme isn't saying just because the book exists", but now you say "they do believe (...) for that reason".

    this is what I mean by embarrassing. people can't help but defend a dumb meme rather than admit it makes a bad point simply because it agrees with them is funnily enough very religious coded imo.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Let me try to rephrase the argument the meme makes and see if it clicks.

    If the Bible is proof that God exists (as many Christians believe).

    And the Quran is proof that god/Allah exists (as many Muslims believe).

    Then spiderman comics are proof that Spider-man exists (which many Christians and Muslims disbelieve).

    Either you believe all three are true, or you don't believe the existence of the book makes it true.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    again the internet atheist assumes no one understands the premise rather than realize the premise is dumb. it's incredible how much you guys operate on faulty logic instead of making arguments that are sound.

    instead of saying "the bible isn't proof that god exists the same way a physics book in itself isn't proof that physics exist, but we can observe and replicate physics experiments in a way that gives us high confidence that our understanding of the laws of physics is sound" you go to fucking kindergarten logic immediately.

    the spider-man (respect the hyphen) comics aren't proof of spider-man's existence because they make zero effort to prove spider-man exists. like that's not even a concern of the book, how bad are you at analogies... you can make the same argument instead with something like the secret. or better yet, you can do it with other holy books.

    funnily enough the quran works as an argument against the bible since christians ostensibly believe in the bible but not the quran even though there are vast similarities. wouldn't work the other way since muslims technically believe that the bible at least at one point history was indeed the true word of god. but you can always use newer scripture, like dianetics or whatever.

    i get that comparing them to spider-man makes your smug ass feel euphoric but making stupid arguments doesn't make the other side seem stupid as many of you internet atheists think for some reason. it just makes you look like you don't know how analogies work.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    I appreciate the answer, but I'm afraid I disagree on several points.

    I will give one thing to start off with, yes the premise is dumb, that's why it's a humorous meme.

    instead of saying "the bible isn't proof that god exists the same way a physics book in itself isn't proof that physics exist, but we can observe and replicate physics experiments in a way that gives us high confidence that our understanding of the laws of physics is sound"

    I'd argue this is exactly what the meme says. The meme as format is a much simplified rehash of the argument, more of a reference than an actual argumentation. It conveys the frustration of having to rehash a long debunked argument in a humorous nod to those who've had to live them and repeat them many times. This is btw probably why you're getting the reactions you are in this thread, the meme isn't the argument itself. On the other hand it gets reposted because there's always someone who gets tripped up, and the exercise of rehashing it might illuminate them or another reader.

    the spider-man (respect the hyphen) comics aren't proof of spider-man's existence because they make zero effort to prove spider-man exists. like that's not even a concern of the book, how bad are you at analogies... you can make the same argument instead with something like the secret.

    What effort does the Bible or any book make to prove their characters' existence? I'd argue it's to post claims you can verify. Claims like descriptions of places and events. Spiderman comics are quite easily verified as many of the locations and events described can be investigated in person, or corroborated through photos, video, independent reports.

    Or is the linchpin that the Spiderman comics don't explicitly claim that they are true? Would your view change if someone had written and underlined "Truth!" in one of them? I'd argue it shouldn't, just claiming something's true doesn't make it so, they could be mistaken or lying.

    funnily enough the quran works as an argument against the bible since christians ostensibly believe in the bible but not the quran even though there are vast similarities.

    I entirely agree, and this is the part of the meme the atheists are secretly smug about.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    No, the fact that people do it with some books and not others is the whole thing the meme is trying to point out. What's embarrassing here is 1. you needing multiple people to explain that to you and 2. you getting this worked up over a meme.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago

    You're entirely right, yet also entirely missing the point.

    The proof of Physics existing isn't in the book, and no physicist would claim you take what's in the book on faith, nor that it's unquestionable, nor that other books on physics are lies, nor kill/lynch/shun people for studying the universe through other perspectives like chemistry or mathematics or biology.

    Asked for proof of Physics, physicists make predictions that can be reliably reproduced, not telling you to read the Physics book harder.

    Regardless, everyone is new sometime, why not provide links, a counter argument or anything useful rather than just deriding them? This way you mostly come off as an ass who doesn't understand the argument.

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 1 year ago

    I apologize if the point of this meme was not clear, this is not meant to make a good point, this is intended to be humorous for those that dislike the establishment that has harmed literally countless people over the course of history and want to make fun of them to ease the anger.

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