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[–] 45 points 1 year ago

we are all whores

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  • [–] 74 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    The idea of "dirty work" is inherently a lie to keep workers from organizing, the only true dirty "job" that exists is the position of capitalist.

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  • [–] 31 points 1 year ago

    I call it "selling your soul to the devil".

    Like influencers who lie to the public for advertiser money by slipping undisclosed sponsorships or scams into their content, or entrepreneurs screwing over clients to get ahead of the game by taking shortcuts or double charging for provided services.

    It makes a LOT of money, but you need to have no conscience to do this.

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  • [–] 17 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    If enough people were willing to pay me for it, I'd do it, but I wouldn't show my face

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Aren’t there many content creators that do something very similar to that? They might not get paid like those using a platform like onlyfans, but they use their social media presence to post suggestive content and I guess make money through advertisers/product promotion, so it should definitely be possible for you too. Maybe the only real hard part would be growing your fan/user base while staying anonymous? Idk, but best of luck!

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (3 children)

    Im unattractive, chunky, and I have psoriasis. People would pay me to hide my body on the internet.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I don’t know your situation like you do, but if there’s one thing I’ve learned since using the internet, there’s a kink for just about every type of situation so I wouldn’t rule yourself out just yet.

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  • 51 comments in c/politicalmemes@lemmy.world view that post
    [–] 102 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    It's really simple:

    when you "sell your body" by taking pictures without clothes, you might make money out of it BUT investors won't get a dime from it! Which is bad for the economy, so you shouldn't do it.

    Also, think of the children, blah blah...

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  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    Actually no - sex work is literally like any other work, with pimps extracting the surplus value from your labor instead of proper capitalists. The pimp can be a pornographic website hosting your videos, so investors can literally get money for it.

    The one's demonizing it often do so out of opportunism, to appeal to the traditionalist voters, not because it doesn't produce profit or something.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    But on the modern web, there are too many options for how to distribute your content. Thereby empowering each sex worker.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago

    Yes, and what do you think those distribution sites do in exchange of distributing your content? Perhaps extracting surplus value from the profit they generate for housing sex worker's videos? It's literally the thing I'm talking about - the website is acting as a pimp in this case.

    If you mean self-hosting or starting a small business selling your "sex work" on sites that you own, then that would bypass this exact point. However, that's pretty much impossible given two things:

    1. How the fuck are you going to get discovered by people not aware of who you are
    2. Who the hell would visit a separate site entirely just for one porn star when a gazillion centralized alternatives that already contain thousands of videos exist

    It's a non-solution, and there is absolutely a reason why the biggest porn stars out there just use onlyfans or phub or whatever to host their content, even if it means getting exploited as a result.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Except you’re basically guaranteed to have your content pirated, and most low level sex workers won’t have the client base to turn a profit. The vast majority of people on OF and similar make very little money.

    Keep in mind too that taxes can be fucked up for independent contractors, that many payment vendors can fuck you over (very common for PayPal to freeze funds), and also again, the low barrier to access means you are competing with a ton of other people. Unless you are very skilled at marketing or can fill a specific niche, it’s not going to make you enough to pay rent.

    Full service can make you a lot more and has less of the immediate competition aspect, but at least in places where it is illegal, you are going to be raped at some point. You can’t exactly call the police if they don’t pay you or if they do something worse. There will be a heavy pressure to not use condoms, and stealthing is unfortunately extremely common.

    Sex work is not “easy money.” Maybe it’s empowering to some, but for many it’s extremely traumatizing and dehumanizing.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    You cant call the police - exactly the problem

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  • [–] 35 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Plot twist: it’s the same, it’s just that the rich elites have normalized their kinks, while villainizing sex workers for doing honest work.

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  • [–] 58 points 1 year ago

    Sex is the reward of a capitalistic patriarchy. You bust your ass to get all the shinies, to then get the sexy.

    Selling sex is a shortcut, and those aren't allowed for the proletariat.

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  • [–] 23 points 1 year ago

    The picture thing is only "selling your body" if you are a woman, otherwise it's "exercising your freedom" /s

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago

    It's bonded servitude with extra steps.

    Feudal serfs were more valued than we are, but then they had a (dire) labor shortage. Now the system is maintained to assure there's a surplus.

    At least until AI and robots take our jobs.

    Speakibg of which, autonomous freight trucks are being tested in Texas. Talk about great replacement

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago

    Well. It's not. Your not selling anything. You're being used, and abused and paid enough to barely keep you alive. You know. Slaves.

    Selling your body is more profitable. And under your control. Can't have that , can we?

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    damn, i'm feeling seen and it wasn't noods.....

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    I'm keeping this to a side of my head and I will start a random debate at a later date

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    People in labouring professions do consider it selling their body. They understand the work they are doing is destroying them.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    If offered the choice they wouldn't do it, or at least the amount of it destroying their body.

    I like physical labor. I even prefer having jobs where I do physical labor over sitting all day. I do not like the fact they hurt me over time making future physical labor harder and harder.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    We should change to "selling orgasms and related services" instead, is truer and sounds better.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago

    Taking pictures of yourself without clothes on is piracy.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    I think the shaming of sex workers is more of a sexual strategy than one based in wealth. I know Lemmy is (luckily) very anti-capitalist, but I think in this case poor people do the same shaming as rich people.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    As a labourer, I'm not sure I get the point of this post. Is the point that my job is bad? I lift things with a forklift, not my back. I also get paid more than the national average thanks to my union. Sex work can be normalized without putting down labourers.

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  • [–] 46 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    No, the point is that in both cases you are selling your body, but only one is looked down as something filthy and bad. Either both are bad or none is.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago

    Unfortunately, I fear that physical labor does not have a very good reputation in most societies either - at least not if you take remuneration as an indicator, because despite the outstanding value of the work for society, it is often significantly lower than the remuneration for office work, for example.

    Fundamentally, it seems to me that one of the most serious issues of our time is that value creation is not adequately remunerated. Instead, the highest salaries are paid to those who manage or regulate the work of others - whether they are pimps, porn producers, lawyers, or CEOs of a corporation: strangely enough, the highest salaries are almost always paid to those who do not create any value themselves, but merely organize the actual creation of value in some way.

    This has been the case for quite some time, of course, but the imbalance is becoming increasingly severe - especially when you consider issues such as LLMs (where corporations benefit massively from the work of others without paying them anything at all).

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago
    [–] 0 points 1 year ago

    My biceps and your pussy are both expensive to maintain and need to be renumerated.

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  • [+] -6 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Actually no, both have been normalized to a somewhat equal level, though being employed and selling your labor power is a bit more accepted given how essentially every prole has to do it, and how the entire early life is preparation for it.

    The defenders of such concepts though are coming from the exact opposite sides though - exploitative jobs where you sell your labor power is seen as virtuous by the right, where it's the natural state of things or whatever. Porn industry, prostitution and whatever is seen as virtuous by the left, giving freedom to women to use their bodies how they want and self-expression, plus it's an easier way to make money.

    The correct position here though is the centrist one - both sides are morons and should be killed with hammers.

    For selling your labor power, you have no practical choice in the matter - you have to be employed for some capitalist to extract surplus value from your work while they actively fight against workers rights using that gained capital. If you don't, you don't get money which is a commodity used to buy other commodities to survive, meaning you're risking becoming homeless and without food if you have no support net holding you, and if you do then the wage you get is usually just enough for you to survive + thrive enough to reproduce, bringing more workers into the world. As edgy as it might sound, this is literally just slavery with an illusion of freedom.

    Same applies to sex work - it's commodified labor like any other, surplus value is extracted by pimps, be it actual physical ones when it comes to prostitution or porn websites with their own cut. A major issue is consent - if what you gain for this kind of work is money which is necessary for one's survival, how can one truly be sure that what the woman does is out of her own will and would have done it regardless if concept of money didn't exist? What about tens of thousands of desperate women who aren't as big as the well-known porn celebs not having an option to say "no" to sex on porn, or being deliberately hooked on drugs to be dependent on their pimp? It's commodified rape.

    Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Sex work is not exclusive to women. The dependency you speak of is like one step removed from health insurance provided by an employer imo.

    how can one truly be sure that what the woman does is out of her own will and would have done it regardless if concept of money didn't exist?

    You can ask them.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    You can ask them.

    The problem isn't individual preference or whatever - there are definitely people who'd love to bang around, money or not. The problem is the structural coercion, the fact that you're doing it for an essential resource required to survive in today's society, so there's absolutely no way. It isn't done purely out of free will or for fun as some people would suggest.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    ? The post literally points out that this is true of every job. Sex work isn't some unique evil.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    The post is ambiguous enough where it could very well be pro sex work, and there's a surprising amount of comments here having this reading too like sex work being some liberatory, empowering thing as opposed to a form of commodifying yourself

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  • [+] -7 points 1 year ago (10 children)

    It's not! You're selling pics of your naked body for others to wank to. And any potential partner could have reasonable objections to it, of course.

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    Yeah? What would be reasonable about it? Of course, it's very common, but that doesn't mean it's reasonable. I think if you break it down, all those objections reduce to "my partner is my property".

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago

    Not necessarily. If doing that is against a persons value system, it's perfectly acceptable for them to choose not to enter a relationship with that person. It doesn't have to be related to control.

    If my partner started doing that without telling me, I'd tell them it's not consistent with my value system and see if they'd reconsider. If not, we'd go our separate ways.

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  • [–] -2 points 1 year ago* (7 children)

    How did you get there? It's more like "for best results, sexual activities, love and commitment should go hand in hand" and "you shouldn't make money out of something so intimate and important as if it were nothing". Ofc you don't feel that way, but admitting it is too much so you have to fight strawmen. It's okay, the world is big enough for OF stars and their partners; and also for those who wouldn't do that and wouldn't date those who do. As long as we're not at each other's' throats about it, it should be fine, right?

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    for best results, sexual activities, love and commitment should go hand in hand

    This is fine, I agree with it as written, but I dispute that "commitment" has very much to do with sexuality, except sort of tangentially, in that people are often bad at managing their feelings around it, or simply have extremely strong feelings which are hard to manage. It's true that if something affects you emotionally to the degree that it has negative impacts on your partner, you shouldn't do that thing, but that would apply to any stressful job where you took your stress out on your loved ones.

    you shouldn't make money out of something so intimate and important as if it were nothing

    This on the other hand is the kind of thing that religious people say when they don't want to admit that they see women (and let's be real, it's always women we're talking about) as property.

    Of course you can date or not date anyone for whatever reason, nobody can make you. So indeed, the world is big enough for that.

    admitting it is too much so you have to fight strawmen

    This is exactly what you are doing with the second statement. If you were to honestly dissect why you think that "making money out of it" would mean that "it were nothing" you would be able to see that too. It implies that someone doing OF somehow lessens the commitment to their partner. Robbing him of something you see as rightfully his. It is this deeply engrained patriarchal mentality which is in the end responsible for most of the emotional issues.

    And sure, if you can't handle it, that's ok, many people can't. We all have things that are hard for us. But it's better not to lie to yourself about where those feelings come from.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago* (5 children)

    I'm describing what I believe in and what you believe in, not telling you that "I hold the truths of the universe with complete certainty and this is it". And yes, I couldn't handle my partner (or myself) being a prostitute or prostitute-adjacent. I'm sure many people can handle their crack better than me but that doesn't mean I envy their positions or how they got there. Again, to you your system and to me mine.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    I'm sure many people can handle their crack better than me

    Way to tell on yourself ;)

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Lol, all I do is 'tell on myself', starting with my username!

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I mean, cool, if you want to outright affirm that you are a bigot that is your prerogative. But evoking the spectre of addiction to hard drugs to denigrate sex workers is a shitty thing to do, and it would lead one to believe you're not being honest when you claim you think the world is big enough for you and them both.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    I'm a bigot because I think some paths shouldn't be followed and that whether "you can handle it" or not doesn't matter at all? Had I said booze would you have felt better about it? It's fun and addictive too, right? You're gonna go around in circles trying to justify your life choices/'ideology' to strangers online because anything on the topic triggers you instead of changing your mind? That's your prerogative, I guess. And it is big enough, but as long as they don't repent and try to turn their lives around, of course I don't want to socialise too much with them (this varies on what the behaviour is exactly). Like, that's the whole point of "the world is big enough for us", else the phrase would be "my house/immediate circle", lol.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    You started this discussion saying "it's reasonable" but you're unwilling to give any reasons beyond "I believe it is sinful". Instead of engaging with any of the positions I put forward, you went on a tangent about crack without saying why it is at all similar or why it would be morally wrong even if it were. I don't believe you're stupid enough to think that that really carries any logical weight as an argument, so yeah, the only remaining conclusion I can make is that it's bigotry instead.

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