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[–] 64 points 1 year ago (6 children)

During the 1986-1992 California drought, we were informed in the San Francisco Bay Area region that water service prices were going to go up unless we conserved strictly.

They said this to a bunch of California hippies, on account that we were in California.

So we way got on board. We stopped flushing. Any water that was rendered non-potable we'd repurpose for watering plants or filter it for second use. Japanese naval baths (weird tiny bowl seats and a sponge, used in the Imperial Navy, WWII) got popular so people were keeping clean via a tenth of normal water usage.

We conserved too much according to the water department and they raised prices anyway.

This sparked some investigations (by journalists, since investigative journalism was still a thing then) and found that agriculture got water for much cheaper, and was still using it once before flushing it (now laced with pesticides) out into the sea. Needless to say, we conservationist hippies were livid.

It's still a problem, as the utility companies routinely lobby our congress and governor (and Newsom may know how to be a California liberal, but he's still a Dianne-Feinstein-style ( / Nancy-Pelosi style) money-grubbing neoliberal. He just has game, especially when opposed to far right idiots. The setup in Monster's Inc (power crisis in a city where scream is the principal power source) was inspired by the Enron fraud affair leading to rolling blackouts and Texas siphoning off California's general fund. And our governments from Schwarzenegger (who I will never forgive) to Newsom are in the pocket of PG&E. (I'm on SMUD now and my bill is conspicuously less.)

Also, according to Climate Town, the Sauds own a lot of California farmland, where they grow alfalfa to import to the mid-east to feed their cows. Alfalfa crops are one of the most water hungry, and is one of the big ways beef is driving the climate crisis (and towards a massive food shortage and global famine!) and the water tables, to which they have access and first-tap rights, gets lower every year. 🕙

So I suspect that the Texas AI centers are getting water at a cheaper rate than private homes. Maybe it's something to get active about.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    So the people should build a giant warehouse that uses a bazillion gallons of water that feeds into the warehouse and in the same pipe back to the water system, get wholesale rates and charge consumers the cheaper rate!

    Same pipe, just make sure it goes into the warehouse so you can charge people for what leaves.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    You want to trust the water a data center with zero regulations is regurgitating?

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    No, I want the people to buy a warehouse, have the utility run pipe into the building and back out to the water supply, have the warehouse pay wholesale rates and resell it to the people at wholesale after its half second journey through the detour pipe in the warehouse.

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  • [–] 62 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    If AI centres need so much cooling, why are they building them in Texas in the first place?

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  • [–] [S] 81 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Lack of regulations of all kinds

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  • [–] 59 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    On a suspicion, I had a quick look, and of course there's also tax incentives, apparently.

    Love this quote "Texas had long been a preferred location for large data centers given its central location, economic climate, reliable electric grid, historically low occurrences of natural disasters, educated workforce and pro-business environment." :|

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  • [–] 23 points 1 year ago

    Yeah, the Texas electric grid is as reliable as a cardboard shed in a hurricane.

    Speaking of hurricanes, "historically low occurrence of natural disasters" is also the exact opposite of reality and rapidly getting WORSE.

    The real reason is of course corrupt politicians in charge of a kakistocratic government that'll let them get away with anything up to and including mass murder while throwing money at them.

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  • ...reliable electric grid, historically low occurrences of natural disasters, educated workforce...

    Lol. More like, "...pro-business environment with developing-nation levels of regulation while still having a minimally sufficient power grid, the kind of natural disasters that don't affect data centers enough to offset cost savings and a desperately exploitable and cheap workforce.

    I'm aware Texas has some top tier educational institutions, but for whatever reason, they're not accessible to their workforce. Texas is about #30 for education in the US.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (1 child)
  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago*

    Apparently only partially, but mostly a natural gas plant to even further wreck the planet.

    There's hundreds of billions of dollars available to pour into this, and for what benefit to the nation? Meanwhile, the rest of the country's infrastructure is crumbling.

    Interestingly, solar panels work more efficiently in cooler temperatures.

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  • [–] 48 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    elon is currrently using the aquifer drinking water under memphis to cool grok. he’s also powering it with generators and smogging out the city.

    please do not use grok.

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  • [–] 23 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I don't care, nothing will come inbetween me and my boi, mecha hitler!

    /j if that wasn't obvious

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  • [–] 165 points 1 year ago (13 children)

    Actually yes. They did vote for this.

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  • [+] [S] -11 points 1 year ago (12 children)

    If a salesman misrepresents his product in any way of form, he gets called a swindler, faces potential legal consequences, and the people who bought his product are called "victims".

    If a politician does this, it's just "business as usual", and his voters were supposed to do enough research to make the correct choice.

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  • [+] 137 points 1 year ago (11 children)
  • [–] 61 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    You know, I said a similar thing about Brexit. To a British person. In their face. While being way less intoxicated than I care to admit. And she replied a thing that still resonates with me to this day. She said that I have to remember that there were a significant number of people who didn't vote Leave, and they're now being fucked over as well. They didn't want that, they didn't vote for that, and yet they still have to live with the consequences. And leaving the country is not an option for most people.

    Remember that when you talk about what "y'all Texans" voted for. Have some empathy and compassion for the people that did the right thing and still have to live through this shit now. Learn from my mistake.

    It's been, idk, six years or something since, and I still cringe at least once a week thinking about how ignorant I was. Never had/took the chance to apologize either.

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  • [–] 26 points 1 year ago

    If Britain had reentered the EU, began to stabilize, and voted to Leave a second time, the analogy would be fair. But as it is, Americans that voted for trump or didn't vote on morality reasons, had ALL of the evidence, and consequently I think deserve to be reminded of that. In my experience people that voted Blue are pretty happy to share that and jump of the "Have the day you voted for" train.

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  • [–] 20 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    I'm not sure how much, if any, this applies to Brexit, but Trump 2 was also the result of the inaction, complacency and outright complicity of plenty of people who "did the right thing." This goes way beyond the fascists, so I'm still pretty comfortable saying Americans did this to themselves.

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  • [–] 32 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    People love to have a reason to look down on other people.

    It is practically an animal instinct, it is an effect of our hard wired tribalism.

    Your comment is pretty telling that you are just as influenced by this.

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  • [–] -3 points 1 year ago*

    No, I've just thought about the trajectory America is on for more than five seconds, so I put the "did the right thing" bar higher than voting blue. The self-defeating stupidity and willful ignorance of most of the "good" half of the American political spectrum leaves very little room for sympathy. For the exact same reason that MAGA thinking everything they don't like is a liberal hoax isn't an excuse for their stupidity, the liberal center thinking everything they don't like is a Russian conspiracy isn't an excuse for their stupidity. I mean hell, did you see how people here were talking about Uncommitted in 2024? That's not "doing the right thing;" that's being a useful idiot, and there's not much reason to distinguish between blue useful idiots and red useful idiots. I do feel bad for the non-idiots, but the past year and a half have proven that that demographic is distressingly small.

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  • [–] [S] 13 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Not for people, whose political knowledge were much less. I've talked with people on Facebook, who legit thought Project 2025 was a hoax made to "trigger the libs". They only realized there were literal instruction videos and a 700 page plan (not just a few pages), once Trump returned to office.

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  • [–] 22 points 1 year ago

    yes, and yes.

    The signs where there 2016 and it was even clearer 2020, those people should have done thier own research and used critical thinking... but the truth is they kind of where incapable of that

    The fact so many people are not equipped with such skills is half meticulous conspiracy to consolidate power and half Reagan and likewise idots of both parties.

    The education system, news media and so many factors that should be helping people be informed and help them to inform themselves have been purposefully dismantled and happenstancely mangled.

    It is not an accident, it is not coincidental, it is not a mystery that so many people are not taught critical thinking and related skills. (Hell the gop is still hellbent on getting rid of the modern codification of critical thinking and education best practices (SEL))

    It's like we are complaining of all the people stumbling into things because they are blind and we're mad because they ain't really blind they just have thier eyes closed but the systems and people that where supposed to teach them how to open thier eyes was dismantled and they lived thier lives so long blind they cannot fathom anything else, it would mean they where lied to and betrayed all thier life, it is much easier for them to accept everyone is blind and sight is the lie.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    According to many suspicions and now also reported from an NSA agent that was involved in the investigations, Harris beat trump by a wide margin. The voting machines had been tampered with in order to fix the election, and that the machines used have more or less been vulnerable to this happening and likely has been happening for the last 15+ years, allegedly.

    So we may not have voted for this. Not to mention the hard gerrymandering that has been happening for the past 20 years. (There's pretty much always been gerrymandering, though).

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    It's concerning that I see no real momentum picking up over this and voter roll purges, and all the bomb threats on election night that absolutely no one wants to talk about.

    It feels like the conservatives have poisoned the water on election "stealing" rhetoric so well, so that now, when there is evidence and patterns that deserves to be picked up, no one wants to do it at the risk of, "being like them."

    And that is dangerous logic when dealing with bad faith actors with power, access and motive.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago

    There's one critical difference between these two things: Your vote affects the whole country, not only yourself. Someone who decides to use that power based on vibes and willful ignorance while there's no shortage of people telling them the truth can't later claim innocence; we as people have a duty to at least try to be informed on the consequences our actions have on other people. MAGAs would deserve some sympathy if their stupidity only affected themselves, but there's certainly no party affiliation filter to being thrown in Alligator Alcatraz.

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  • [–] 82 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    This but just the Microsoft logo lol

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  • [–] 40 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Texan here: we barely get to vote on shit at all. And they're gerrymandering to make it even harder.

    I'd call Texas a clown car but it's too big to qualify.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    The estimate of the majority Democrats would need to retake the Senate is something like 70/30, based on the degree of gerrymandering.

    And the math just gets worse every time maps are redrawn.

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  • [–] 33 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    Why the fuck do they alway pick the driest places to use the most water. Fucking morons

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    Industrial cooling is all about evaporating some liquid into gas. For evaporative coolers, that liquid is water and works best if the air is dry and water is plentiful (the absurd part). If you don't have water or the air is so humid that evaporation is difficult, the liquid is expensive refrigerant which must recycle back into liquid in a closed loop with a gas compressor that pumps the waste heat into the air through forced convection heat exchangers (big fans blowing air past hot refrigerant-filled pipes), all of which consumes a lot of energy.

    Ideally, we'd live in a post scarcity society in which huge arrays of solar panels would provide electricity to run closed-loop refrigerant plants that would consume zero water to cool our data centers.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago*

    Because that usually means it's hot and sunny so things grow well if you can get water to it.

    It's easier to get water places than make it warmer or sunnier in the optimal water place.

    Edit: sorry this was me thinking about the alfalfa sprout comment above. Makes zero fucking sense for IT.

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  • [–] 27 points 1 year ago

    its funny how these AI centers are mostly if not all in red states only, simply because they know the legislation wont do anything, and encourage them anyways, plus the resident that leans right are less likely to make a big fuss over it.

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  • [–] 24 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    So not only are Corporations... People

    Now they are more important people than regular citizens?

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  • [–] 20 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Don’t feed the people but we feed the machines

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  • [–] 18 points 1 year ago

    My country is int he middle of a data center boom, fuelled by the usual royal and political, uh, inputs. We also have seasonal droughts, which often result in water rationing and angry people upset at the mismanagement of our resources. Wonder which will give way first.

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  • [+] 35 points 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [–] 17 points 1 year ago (13 children)

    How much time before someone figures these infrastructures make very good targets for vandalism? I risk I will see datacenters destroyed by mobs and other actors before I die.

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  • [–] 17 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    It’s not vandalism, it’s direct action. Or sabotage, if you consider this to be a time of war (which it undoubtedly is — a class war). Don’t use the enemy’s language against ourselves.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    In theory we have elected representatives looking out for their constituents. Surely they would limit water use so this wouldn’t happen, and prevent the datacenters from relying on generators while waiting for power hookup, right? Oh, a red state. Never mind

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Why would you think they make good targets for vandalism? A major data center would have very restricted physical access.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    If Palestine Action can break into RAF bases and destroy Israeli weapons factories, what makes you think a data center will be better defended?

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Palestine Action spray-painted some stuff. They didn't "destroy Israeli weapons factories", that's rather hyperbolic.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    You should look them up. They forced the closure of two factories owned by Elbit Systems and forced Barclay's Bank to divest from Elbit through sustained sabotage actions. They were actually incredibly successful at disrupting the Israeli genocide machine, which is the real reason for their proscription - not for their latest action at Brize Norton, as the government and mainstream media would have you believe.

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  • [–] 34 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    I don't understand why AI data centers would CONSUME water. Once they fill up their chiller loops, then... that's it, right?

    It's hard for me to imagine them relying on the temperature of the incoming water, and dumping all the warm water as discharge.

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  • [–] 31 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    They're probably using cooling towers, which cool through evaporation. They should be using reclaimed though.

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  • [–] 24 points 1 year ago

    As long as it is cheaper to buy water, then evaporate it, big firms will continue to do so.

    With a COP of around 15 and up it is difficult to argue with the economy of this.

    Local regulation would be required, but that would need politicians who don't suck.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    This is the right answer. They use evaporative cooling. Which does save a lot of power so they can claim to be "green".

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  • [–] 20 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I worked 10 years at a data center, all that water is recycled - it is very carefully chemically balanced so as to not corrode the pipes and pumps, no they do not use it once and dump it out.

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Talk about dystopian headlines

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  • [–] 29 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Stoopid Texans. You've got the guns, start using the things. If they need cooling, maybe aerate a few blocks of servers for them.

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  • [–] 40 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    Yes, Texas did vote for that. Haha, Red states suffering is funny.

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [–] -4 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I know not everyone's guilty, but let's be real. Anyone still living in Texas after having a near decade to see the writing on the wall to get their shit together and leave (and I don't mean something as arduous as immigrating, I mean literally just moving across the state border) kind of only has themselves to blame.

    It's ground zero for Trump Administration neo-conservatism [fascism]. Genuinely, what do they expect?

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Seems like the real problem is that companies aren't being charged enough for their excessive water usage.

    It's no surprise this is happening in the Land of Useful Idiots and Dipshits, texas.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago*

    Well, I mean...Not for nothing, but Texas being one of the reddest states there is, and even being willing to double it down by heavily gerrymandering themselves for Trump worship, means that they did vote to serve their deep state and oligarch overlords. Which is quite ironic for the small government party. And that's coming from me, who believes in the potential of AI for humanity in the long-term, but only if used responsibly and not at the cost of people's quality of life to satisfy the corrupt elite.

    But then again, irony is in their DNA, starting with all their preaching about "keeping kids safe". Speaking of which, Trump files where? I need to check if Epstein's name comes up in those.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago

    They deregulated shower heads just in time.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago

    Oh, and THEN, the AI will ask you to go take a shower if you're feeling dry, dirty or thirsty. I mean after telling you why taking a shower is good, why people take showers, which celebrities took showers the past week and asks if you want to ads taking a shower to next week's reminders.

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