The company is Access Industries and the Founder and Owner is Leonard Blavatnik

Along with what's in the title, he is accused of reputation laundering against Ukraine and has been personally sanctioned by Volodymyr Zelenskyy. He was also part of a WhatsApp group involving some of the United States' most powerful business leaders with the stated goals of "changing the narrative" in favour of Israel and "helping win the war" against Gaza.

Everything is in the linked Wikipedia article about him, mostly under the "Controversies and disputes" part.

I switched to Deezer after seeing it recommended as a better Spotify alternative here on Lemmy, but after finding all this I immediately stopped using it. It's as bad as the shit Spotify does and has done IMO. I'm not here to recommend or push an alternative, but if I can give info on what I use now if someone asks.

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[–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

While we're talking about it, does anyone have an MP3/DAP they would recommend?

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Check out dankpods, he does (among other things) reviews of mp3 players. A lot of modern DAPs are catered toward audiophiles so expect to pay a premium if you want something new. He still uses and recommends old iPods. You can mod them to have expanded storage and better battery life if you feel like tinkering too

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  • [–] 117 points 1 year ago* (10 children)

    Since we are on this topic I would incentivise everyone to take a look at resonate.

    They are, AFAIK, the only music streaming service where artists, workers and listeners are owners (aka it's a cooperative)

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    This is an interesting idea, but I would assume that over time, the number of "owned" streams would dominate the number of "new" streams, and thus eventually their operating costs would reach a point where they don't have the revenue to cover it...

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    At that point their governance structure would show it's strengths by enabling a democratic decision taking that could solve the issue

    Workers, for example, could suggest a small subscription fee that would cover the infrastructure cost, while listeners will most likely object, their view would be valued and impact the approval of any proposed solution

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago*

    That's fair, just...for this to scale, it needs to be competitive with existing streaming services. And if the experience for a listener is the same whether a democratic panel raises prices, or greedy enshittification raises prices, there's not going to be an upside.

    To me, the potential upside is identifying the problems with their revenue stream now out in the open, and addressing it now, rather than trying to build a captive audience now and pivot to something more sustainable later (as is the strategy for capitalist startups).

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    I guess it depends on how much new music is released, added to the library, and then streamed by the users. It's a valid concern to be sure, but I wonder if it could be offset by user growth and new music to be a non issue

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Even if we assume there's an achievable rate of growth that can consistently outpace owned plays at any given time, as with every business, there will come a day when growth slows. And at that point, they'll be forced to solve the problem.

    And then there's all the questions of, can I download my tracks to play offline? What if they go out of business? How many artists/labels are even going to agree to this? What about tracks I buy outside of their platform? And what does "own" actually mean given that you never "own" music you buy physical media for, you don't have any copyright, you can't play that media for profit, you just have a license to listen to that copy personally. By default the artist "owns" their art. But do they have to give that ownership up to the co-op?

    It's going to be tough to convince people who don't care to switch away from spotify, and there's no reason for someone who can self-host to use it unless it's somehow more effective at funding musicians than just buying their tracks directly.

    I wish them luck making the idea work, but I think they have their work cut out for them.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I think that's all fair.

    I was really interested in the idea of using it as a way of growing my offline and/or self hosted collection. Fair compensation for artists while still being able to have good new music discovery and grow my library at the same time would be really cool.

    Still to be seen if they can manage, to your point, but I'll hold out a little hope until they lose their goodwill

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    Yeah, i couldn't find anywhere on their site that indicated I would be able to download tracks I own. That would change the equation I think. Then maybe they only charge for streaming and track download bandwidth. I could behind something like that. Then it feels like a better version of Bandcamp.

    Currently I use Tidal to supplement my self-hosted library, but that's primarily due to music selection and artist compensation. If they didn't have random tracks I want to play, I would use something else.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    This is an interesting idea, but I find their catalogue to be quite terrible for me (so far). Service like this really, really needs big names and much broader catalogue to attract people and start moving. Even though I'm far far from listening to mainstream I literally could not find a single interpret I looked for, and believe me I tried.

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  • [–] 45 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    I've been buying mostly mostly from Bandcamp. It's worked out well. I have a big library, and the people making music got paid.

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  • [–] 26 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    FYI bandcamp was acquired by Epic and subsequently sold to Songtrader 2023

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Really it was re-sold I actually didn't know that.

    I don't know much about Songtradr, all I can find is that they let half the bandcamp staff go when they took over, is it a well known company?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    Its an Australian company founded by this guy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Wiltshire and this guy https://www.songtradr.com/helge

    Songtradr is a fairly boring ecommerce platform for music from what I can read. Boring is good though, I don't see any dramas / issues in my brief web traipsing.

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  • [–] 44 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    I am buying music as much as I can, and build my own streaming service with Jellyfin. To this day, Bandcamp is were you can find the most music for purchase but not all artists are there. Often, I don't find any place to purchase albums from artists, then I pirate as a last resort, sorry for that. I'll go to the concerts when I get the chance, to make up for it.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    If you want to support local business, you could dig through some crates at a record store. Most shops have metric shitloads of CDs on the cheap. Idk if lossless audio is a big deal to you but that's a surefire way to get lossless files too

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago

    I appreciate lossless quality, although I don't have any fancy audio equipment at this time. When I move to a bigger place, maybe I'll start to build a CD collection. I'm not so much into Vinyls, somehow they are so popular right now that artists will release a vinyl disk buy no download nor CD purchase possible...

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  • [–] 61 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (14 children)

    Uuuugh shit, I liked Deezer. :(

    Ok, so, Qobuz then?

    Edit tired of jumping ship all the time. Going to try going back to local rips and jellyfin server.

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  • [–] 26 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    Your subscription costs as much as a CD and a half each month.

    Go buy your music and host a jellyfin instance, stop paying these fuckin scammers

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  • [–] 25 points 1 year ago* (3 children)

    I would need to buy a lot of CDs at this point and I'm not doing that anymore.

    I don't think they are all scammers. It is convenient.

    But maybe it is time to just go back to the 80s and make mixtapes off of the radio.

    I'll consider your suggestion. I'd need a CD reader again to make lossless rips. It's been awhile.

    And it DOES give me an excuse to selfhost another thing.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago

    It also kind of forces you to consume music in a more focused way. Instead of cycling through hundreds of songs in a few minutes you are forced to preselect what you really want to hear. Which has both its pros and cons, but I enjoy the "slow pace" when discovering new songs.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I would need to buy a lot of CDs at this point and I'm not doing that anymore.

    This is how the music industry is screwing artists.

    Think about it. Hollywood is union, which ensures money and jobs make it down to every blue collar worker involved in every Netflix-funded project. But music isn't union, there's just a bunch of random bands, and middlemen who will gladly take everything. The record labels and streaming services turn a profit, pay their execs, and get away with sending fractions of a cent per play to the artists. Most artists don't post to streaming services for the money, they do it just for the convenience of fans.

    Giving money directly to an artist in exchange for their tracks or merch (CDs, Vinyls, etc) is the best way to fund an artist. Bandcamp is another middleman that enables this, but at least they have Bandcamp Fridays periodically, which is where they waive their cut and give the bulk of your payment directly to the artist.

    IMO buying tracks on Bandcamp Friday + self-hosting Plex/Jellyfin + using Plexamp/Finamp on mobile is the best way to support music right now, and also future proofs your library.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)
  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    Qobuz

    For anyone checking this thread in the future. Qobuz does seem to be the only one not owned by demons. Deezer's owner was personally sanctioned by Ukraine for his support of the invasion, Spotify pays artists incredibly poorly (and is partially owned by Tencent and Black Rock), Tidal's largest shareholders are investment banks and Black Rock, and Napster is owned in-part by Live Nation.

    Ugh.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    I buy my music on Bandcamp and Qobuz and put it on my Jellyfin server. It's great! Also I don't need 10.000 songs at once so it's not really that expensive, I end up paying a little more a month now than for streaming, but I build up a library of music I actually like and don't have to think about losing it when yhe service get shit.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Why are you paying these oligarchs at all? Pirate your music

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  • [–] 18 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Well, I'm not opposed to paying for a convenient service that gets money to the artist.

    Of course, the more they enshittify and mistakenly believe they are indispensable, then yes, the more I return to the high seas.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Btw, afaik we are now at a point where artists earn next to nothing from streaming and make the bulk of the money from tours, shows and the like.

    Most of the money from your streaming subscription goes either to the service provider (Spotify, Apple etc) or to the major label.

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  • [–] 24 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (17 children)

    Tidal was originally European but DayZ Jay-z bought it up so it's technically American now; Qobuz is french but it doesn't have a "brain-dead radio mode". Both have unofficial Linux clients.

    Rn I use tidal because it's on the top 3 of the ones that pay the most to artists iirc(quobuz is up there too) and it hasn't had a huge American influence that I know of, but do your own research on the alternatives to see which suits you the most, there are tons of articles about them all.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    DayZ

    Do you mean Jay-Z?

    It's now owned by Square, the same company behind squarecash

    I used it for awhile, specifically because while Spotify promised lossless for years, they never delivered. A bonus is, as you said, that it is the platform that has the highest payout for artists.

    That being said, when I stopped using it, it was mostly due to the UX decisions they had made on the platform to force videos on everything. It's a music app, and yet, one of the main navigation options in the app was for videos. Spotify also fired their original designer and has focused on "engagement" over actually good UX.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (5 children)
  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    You click on a genre and let it play mindlessly, like when listening to radio.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (3 children)
  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Compared to Spotify's artist/song radio feature, Qobuz attempt at radio is absolutely horrible. They seem to sort everything into a literal handful of genres. The "similarity" seems to stem from song features like "has a singer" and "uses chords". I switched from Spotify to Qobuz a few months ago, it's comparable in available content, has much better audio quality but is severely underwhelming for discovering new music.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    I was referring to you having a "daily recommendations" playlist that just keeps going after it finished by appending similar music, or "radio based on playlist" kinda things. Also, Qobuz's recommendations are way too generic, the lists are hand made for everyone which ironically doesn't cater enough to individual tastes.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    Both have unofficial Linux clients.

    Qobuz doesn't?

    Sticking with Spotify for now, it supports Linux and has last.fm integration (and is amazing)

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    unofficial

    You appear to be looking at their official website. Services tend to not advertise unofficial clients

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (5 children)

    yeah shame

    https://www.spotify.com/au/download/linux/

    not first class support but close enough i can’t tell the difference

    this is where mullvad and spotify are tops to me, no one comes close

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    uh, same. https://github.com/Mastermindzh/tidal-hifi

    In fact spotify doesn't support arch at all, all there is is user built stuff too. You have a flatpak version of spotify but sod o you of tidal-hifi.

    Sorry if I sound rude but your jerking of spotify when it offers the same capabilities of user made stuff rubs me the wrong way.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

    I've been just pondering between tidal and spotify, and I primarily use Linux and Android. Tidal's client doesn't seem to support outputting to devices like Wiim in Linux. The Spotify client does.

    Spotify's client can be installed via AUR (a repackaging of that DEB essentially) on Arch Linux.

    FWIW, both tidal-hifi and the official spotify client are available in NixOS's repository.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Yeah I know of the AUR package, in fact I checked right before writing xD, that's the "user built stuff" I mentioned, since the AUR is the Arch User Repository after all.

    About the Wiim, I'm reading about it for the first time but it seems like it's a LAN based audio device, right? I bet there's some Linux application that is able to connect to it and create a virtual output device you can pick for the tidal app, or any other audio.

    Me from the future before posting the comment: Yeah no, I checked, there isn't. That's weird because Wiim does have an open API to send an audio stream into it so you should be able to create an audio stream from any app and then link them... Like, an app that creates a local audio streaming server, links any app output into that server and then sends it to Wiim via its public API. It should be doable and offer a lot more flexibility, but I guess there's not enough interest for someone to bother doing so. The one doing it should have a WIIM device to test too and the overlap between the people able to do this stuff and the people with a WIIM might not be that big give that's a device that does a lot of stuff for you in theory.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (1 child)

    I bet there’s some Linux application that is able to connect to it and create a virtual output device you can pick for the tidal app, or any other audio.

    Yeah I should've been more clear what I'm looking for. Obviously I can stream via Bluetooth or perhaps even something like Airplay. But the native Spotify client uses Spotify Connect also on Linux, which means that the device can independently play the music. I just issue it commands from the client.

    A similar thing exists for Tidal: Tidal Connect. But unfortunately the Linux client does not support it. Android, MacOS and iOS do, though.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Okay, understood, so the idea is that the device connects to the streaming service independently and the PC client acts as a glorified remote. Sad that it doesn't work.

    Would it work with the mobile tidal app? Just curious, since that might be better as a "remote" than a static desktop pc.

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  • [–] 20 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    He also owns Warner Music, so revenue from that David Bowie or Charli XCX track you stream goes to his empire.

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  • [–] -4 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    He can take Bowie if he wants, but Charli???? This is not what PC Music fought for :(

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (7 children)

    Either of them Charli could stop working with Warner Music, she isn't a slave

    Edit: I originally said David Bowie, too, meaning his estate, but they sold all of the rights of his music to Warner

    https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-59860096

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    Depending on the contract she signed: maybe not.

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  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I don't know if it's any better than the other options out there, but I like tidal.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    Tidal is cool but it lacks a lot of vocaloid and some japanese songs for me.

    Respect their artist payout and the nice link site which lists a bunch of different sources of the shared song, so that Spotify or other streaming users don't need to manually search for that shared song.

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  • [–] 30 points 1 year ago*

    Blavatnik was a member of a WhatsApp group chat that existed from November 2023 until early May 2024 involving some of the United States' most powerful business leaders with the stated goals of "chang[ing] the narrative" in favor of Israel and "help[ing] win the war" on U.S. public opinion following Hamas's October 7th attack on Israel.

    Ah, every single rich person. So predictable at this point it's like a Tinder profile. It's what most billionaires are and what most right-wing idiots want to become.

    50m (I just spent 50 million dollars for a party for rich people)

    Likes: Tyranny, Autocrats, Colonialism, Wealth Gaps, Kids (Yeah like that 😉), Abrahamic Religions, Unobstructed Hypercapitalism

    Dislikes: Unions, Social Progress, Clean Air & Water (except for me lol duh), Equality, Regulation, The EU, "Other Races"

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago (10 children)

    I switched to Deezer because I found reasons why all of the others were unethical. What would you suggest for a streaming service whose services are ethical?

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago

    I would personally suggest Qobuz, as it is demonstrably the service that pays artists the most and has multiple tiers of lossless audio options. The next best thing would be to buy from artists directly, whenever possible (maybe even physical media, if you have a good sound system for that).

    People here advocating for piracy sound cute, but I wonder how actual musicians would feel about that.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I'm autistic. If I'm not using some kind of a subscription service I will end up listening to the same one song on repeat literally thousands of times until I hate it. I would prefer to not hate songs I used to love. It's happened too much. I need some kind of service to introduce new music into my rotation.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Pirate everything. Pay directly to artists only when they allow you to do so (like direct sales on their website). If they don't allow you to make money go to them without also paying pigs then don't pay them at all.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    What options are there for pirating music? I felt Lidarr was not particularly useful due to the lack of indexers. Unless you like mainstream music it's quite difficult to find many tracks online (and I'm too picky to be okay with YouTube rips).

    Considering music streaming isn't fragmented in the same way video streaming is, it's still well worth paying for a music streaming service as part of a family plan imo. There's no other hassle free solution to instantly listen to anything I want and be recommended new tracks based on my listening preferences.

    I don't think there's any particularly "ethical" option, until now I've just used Spotify knowing that they're losing money anyway. But it turns out they posted their first profitable year last year so who knows what the move is now. Qobuz claims to be ethical and high quality, but I don't know how good the library is and like with any company they can become evil later.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    I literally switched from Spotify yesterday…

    Everyone says bandcamp is a good alternative but the main added value from streaming services, for me, is discovery. I don’t think I can afford the time to go on bandcamp and download every song I like one by one. I would also be lost when in need to discover new music.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    I find that it's really easy to find new artists and albums I like on Bandcamp. I just started by following a few genres and listen to a some music at random. If I like it I add it to my whislist and carry on. And I just listen to the "new and hot" section. Gives way better results and more variety than Spotify ever did for me.

    From time to time I go to my whislist and listen to some of it again and usually decide to either buy the album or delete it from my whislist.

    I also use Qobuz for more mainstream artists that's not on Bandcamp.

    Recently started to put all my purchases into Jellyfin for easier management between the services.

    I also have a few pirated playlists of my favorite songs from years ago. I go through them when I have time and money and see if I like the songs enough to buy some albums or songs from the artists.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    I like Tidal, it pays the artists the most of all services.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Tidal might pay the most of streaming services (others in here are claiming it's Qobuz) but Bandcamp pays the most to artists in general as the purchases pay much higher than streams. Bandcamp charge 15%, everything else goes to the band/label until they hit $5k in sales, and then Bandcamp's fee drops to 10% and stays there for additional sales. If you wait to buy in bulk on 'Bandcamp Fridays', which happen about 10 times a year, the artists take 100% on those days.

    Imo Bandcamp is by far the best service for supporting artists.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    You can also buy music on Qobuz, I use it together with Bandcamp to get more coverage.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    Oh yes, true. I do forget. Their catalogue in Australia is quite pricey which doesn't make them a very good value proposition here.

    For example Random Access Memories by Daft Punk is $27.09 for HiRes or $23.49 for CD resolution. I bought that album on physical CD from a brick and mortar store (JB HiFi) for $14.99. It was not on sale, that's just a fairly standard price for a major release CD at the time - reissues of very popular releases are cheaper than that now.

    A more recent example, Igor by Tyler the Creator is $23.99 at physical stores, or on Qobuz is $27.59 for CD res or $31.79 for HiRes.

    (All these prices are in AUD).

    It does get cheaper with their 'Sublime' subscription but not to make it worth it (33%) - unless you were buying heaps of music off them, or already using their streaming.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago

    Dammit, I was pretty happy with it :(

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  • [+] 10 points 1 year ago (4 children)
  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago

    Hi, I’m interested to know what you’re using now!

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