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[–] 142 points 1 year ago (82 children)

I lived in china for 4 years and Winnie has Def never been outlawed. Chinese censorship is much more sophisticated than "hey, that's illegal." There's not a list of pictures or memes or phrases that if you're caught with you'll get a visit from the police. No no no. There are hundreds of thousands of people monitoring social media for the latest "subversive" trends. When a new trend develops that content is blacklisted and just not allowed to be spread. You'll send your friend a picture and it never shows up on their phone. There's no indication on your end that it didn't send or they didn't get it. You can have this content on your phone, the CCP doesn't care. They care about it spreading. And you'll never get in trouble for trying to spread it because the system doesn't allow it to spread.

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  • [–] 53 points 1 year ago (50 children)

    That's actually kinda cool in a techno dyatopian kinda way.

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  • [+] 27 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (48 children)
  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago (43 children)

    If that was the only thing they censored then I don't think as many people would mind

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  • [+] 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (43 children)
  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    You don't think they mind the censorship or what do you mean

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  • [+] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (7 children)
  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    I mean could be, most people aren't French and just take most stuff even if it's not great

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  • [+] 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (6 children)
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (2 children)

    Sure, I was thinking all the other stuff, like I mentioned

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  • [+] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)
  • [–] -2 points 1 year ago (1 child)
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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    Adults make compromises, children throw tantrums.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child)

    What do you even mean here?

    Any decision about censorship is a compromise of some kind between open communication/access to information and the prevention of the spread of content that could be deemed harmful in some way or another.

    Maybe I'm just being thick right now but I'm really not sure who are supposed to be the "children". It seems it could just as easily be the CPC for being uncompromising in their censorship of the internet, fascist trolls who say they should have a right to use slurs and disinformation to incite violence, or liberals who are unwilling to accept that a hardline stance needs to be taken to censor the fascists.

    I'm unsure if this is an enlightened centrist take, you saying the CPC (and similar) do what needs to be done or that we need our freedom and the commenter above is the child. Whatever you mean, your comment (at least to me) comes across a bit rude and unconstructive.

    Ok your comment successfully ragebaited me so tbh I'm probably the child.

    Edit: changed CCP to CPC because that is the technically correct term, even though for some reason most English language outlets use "CCP"

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (33 children)

    When they find out the extent of the censorship they mind very much. But that's the problem, the censorship is so deep and so good that the vast majority of the Chinese never find out how extensive it is, because it's not just your WeChat, it's ALL MEDIA. The Chinese don't have access to over 90% of the internet, so they never find out what's out there or know what information they're missing.

    And you're just trading one dystopian nightmare for another. Saying one is better than the other is like saying having a foot cut off is better than losing a kidney. There is nuance, they're both bad.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (25 children)

    the censorship is so deep and so good that the vast majority of the Chinese never find out how extensive it is, because it’s not just your WeChat, it’s ALL MEDIA.

    Have you considered it's actually the other way around?

    The problem is the censorship is so deep and so good that the vast majority of westerners never find out how extensive it is, because it’s not just your nazi.world, it’s ALL MEDIA.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Yes. But like I said, I lived there for years. True, the western media gets a lot of things wrong. But china is heavily censored, there's no way around that reality.

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  • [+] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)
  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Yes, and if you're getting a 100% Rosey picture of China and the CCP guess what? It's just different propaganda. There's good and bad things about China. For me bad things outweighed the good.

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  • [+] 1 point 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [+] 1 point 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)
  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    So no. So it's impossible for you to really make an accurate comparison. So your opinion here is literally worthless.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago (18 children)

    Are you seriously trying to say that western relations are more censored than china's? One of those countries has locked off Internet. The other does not.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago* (8 children)

    If you're implying that there is no substantial amount of censorship in the west you're kidding yourself. e.g. RT/TASS, Genocide in Palestine, Leftists/Communist thought, Removing TikTok is in the talks, etc. come to mind. Not like only one side is locking off their internet.

    Also, not wanting western Nazi (social) media platforms is just self defense.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    I'm saying the censorship is not even close to the same degree. Communists and leftists are not censored. If they were, I wouldn't encounter them in main stream social medias.

    Removing tic tok is not censorship lmfao.

    Also, not wanting western Nazi (social) media platforms is just self defense.

    If it was only banning the platforms, I would agree.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Communists and leftists are not censored

    As a lib it definitely seems that way. There may be even too much amirte?

    Removing tic tok is not censorship lmfao.

    Id argue trying to remove a main stream platform with a flatter algorithm that allows for counter hegemonic content to go viral is a form of censorship, but in that case China blocking Western social Media isn't either

    If it was only banning the platforms, I would agree.

    I like how you skipped the censoring of TASS/RT

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Yes, there is censorship. But the information is there if you search for it. The fact that you're typing the words "genocide in Palestine" and I am reading those words pretty clearly demonstrates that the level of censorship in the west is no where near the level of censorship in China. If the CCPs position is "Israel has a right to defend itself" you would never even know there's a conflict in Gaza.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    But the information is there if you search for it.

    Goes for China too if you use a VPN

    The fact that you’re typing the words “genocide in Palestine” and I am reading those words pretty clearly

    I guess you never heard of shadow banning before. That never happens in the west right?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (3 children)

    Most Chinese don't have access to a VPN. Do you need a VPN to access that information? The fact that there is an extra step to access the information means that china is more censored by default. There's also the fact that at certain times of year all consumer VPNs are blocked (June 4th is one of those dates, oddly enough)

    Yes, I've heard of shadow banning. The censorship in China is still worse. I'm not saying censorship doesn't happen in the west. I am saying it is much more widespread, oppressive, and complete in China. No amount of you crying is going to change that fact.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    Being subject of western imperialism tends to do that. The US uses various think thanks and it's media landscape to produce narratives with the intend to destabilize the countries like e.g. China. Also any state goes into censorship when it's hegemony is threatened. Also chinese people on average seem way more informed about current events than the average European or American

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    Chinese people seem way more informed about current events? 🤣🤣🤣😂🤣😂. That's gonna be a no from me dog. Clearly you've never talked to the average Chinese person. There are vast swathes of current events and information they've never even heard about. They're well informed about the topics that make it past the censors, for sure. My god you're just as misinformed as everyone else. The only difference is your misinformation is "china good" misinformation. Which is sad, there are a lot of things to point at in china that are legitimate "China good". Like fast, cheap/free and effective healthcare. The best in the world high speed rail. The closest to a meritocratic education system I've seen or heard of. Virtually zero homelessness. But when it comes to censorship, nah, they're wayyyyy worse. Yeah, the west can be better than china then some things. It's okay buddy, you can be objective you know

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Cope. I guess you had a different experience when you were there. I got asked about NATO, Russia/Ukraine, Iran/Israel, US Tariffs and saw it analyzed in CCTV also when revisiting earlier this year. CGTNs quality of analysis is way higher and objective than other (state) media.

    What are topics that didn't make it past the censors in your opinion?

    I'm not questioning that censorship is happening, it's just happening differently than in western societies. Classifying it as "way worse" is just your subjective experience

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    You're kinda fucking stupid as shit if you don't understand propaganda in the west is orders of magnitude worse than in China based solely on the dollar amount spent on it

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (7 children)

    propaganda while related to censorship, is not the same thing as censorship. You are putting 2 different terms as equivalent. And it's no surprise the west's budget on that would be larger in dollars, the pay by exchange rate is higher in the west for those positions, and china is one country, the west is dozens of countries.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (6 children)

    Thank you for explaining to everyone that propaganda and censorship are related but not identical terms. I'm sure the time spent reading it was just as valuable as the time spent writing it. And now it's gone.

    And while your point is kind of dumb in that it assumes every society is exactly the same and that differences in how they spend money is explainable by scale of the economy, it's extra dumb because by that mechanism you're conceding the main point of contention that the west controls the thought and discourse in its empire more than China does.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Literally, no, I'm not conceding that point. Their dollar does not give the same value. There is substantially less control of media and internet in the west as compared to china.

    I wouldn't've had to explain it if you knew the difference in the first place

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (4 children)

    There is substantially less control of media and internet in the west as compared to china.

    "it doesn't count as being controlled by the government because the guy who owns the government controls it directly"

    There is no argument that you can make that isn't stupid because you are wrong.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    You're a fuckin moron man. You can easily find any of the so called "censored items" with mainstream search engines like google or even just on Facebook or reddit. What are these so called banned topics that you say exist anyways?

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    I honestly can't tell if you're just too prideful to admit you're wrong. I don't believe any present minded, awake person could be naive to the concept of a discovery algorithm. So you setting the bar at 'you can literally find it if you know what you're looking for and try' for government control of thought and discourse seems genuinely in bad faith.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Give an example. Russian news outlets and far left ideology are both too unpopular to be common even without suppression. They're not examples of censorship.

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  • [+] -1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (6 children)
  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

    Buddy, I lived there for years. My sources are the hundreds of Chinese people I spoke to in their native tongue for years. Not the propaganda from my country. True, SOME Chinese people have VPNs. Most do not.

    And I think the more poignant question is this. Why do they need a VPN to access the wider internet in the first place?

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  • [+] 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)
  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Stop with the pedantic BS. MOST do not use VPNs to get around censorship because MOST do not have a VPN. So again, why do the Chinese need a VPN to access the wider internet?

    And there's more to the internet to social media.

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  • [+] 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)
  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Not all internet outside of China is Western. I'll give you an example. My wife was a cross cultural communications teacher in China. She had her students pick countries outside of Asia to do a cultural report on. One student picked Poland for whatever reason. The Chinese internet, other than here is Poland on a map, it has this many people, and it's capital is Warsaw, had no other information, Literally nothing else.

    So when you ask why they would need access it's because they deserve to be informed about the world around them. There is waayyyyyyy more to the internet than "fascist propaganda".

    They also can't access the absolutely braindead remarks you're saying right now. Isn't that a travesty?

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Should openly fascist people be allowed to vote in your opinion? Just curious what peoples' take on this is.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago

    Should openly fascist people be allowed to vote [for government] in your opinion?

    Why should they? As in, materially, how does society benefit from that? How does the democratic decision-making tool become more useful from it? I consider democracy to be a decision-making process, so I don't care for vague idealistic assertions like "every adult should have the right to vote" unless there's a benefit from it. And allowing an explicitly anti-liberal, anti-democratic, bad-faith opportunist (and fascism is explicitly and openly all of those) to vote is harmful to the democratic process and increases the odds of it making a bad decision.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (27 children)

    Seems more like Huxley than Orwell.

    They get you with inconvenience instead of brute force.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (26 children)

    stop talking about novels like they're historical studies or facts

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    How dare people use novels used to express political thoughts when political topics come up.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago* (19 children)

    Getting too close to comfort for you?

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago* (16 children)

    no, it's a novel, it's a work of fiction, not a piece of theory or history that you can quote, the ending and the world is entirely built by the writer, there's no study it's literally arguments made up by the writer based on no sources or research, anyone can write a dystopian story, I could write a dystopian story and quote it right now, it's not argument, it's stupid.

    You know, in my novel of people who quote novels ending up as nazis, you do resemble it a lot.

    /\ as valid as using a novel like 1984 or animal farm or whatever else as an argument

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    1984 and Brave New World are allegories based on real life social observations and events. So, yes, they are based on history. They are famous for a reason. It is just that you find it too close to comfort.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    They're famous because the US regime uses them to indoctrinate children in their flag pledging factories

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  • [–] -3 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    my 3 sentence novel is also based on observing you.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    Yes, anyone right of you is a Nazi.

    How original. Pulitzer prize winning.

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  • [–] -2 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    It's not history, but it's certainly theory. The study it's based on is through observations of reality. When comparing something to one of these books, we're testing their observations by comparing them to reality. Incidentally, it gets brought up a lot when an event, occurrence, or vector in society begins to resemble these books too closely.

    Your hyperbole of people quoting books all being nazis, on the other hand, is very easily disproven.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    "this is giving boss baby vibes" except actually trying to make a point out of it

    Your hyperbole of people quoting books all being nazis

    Only the dumbest fucking people pull this shit and you are as fucking stupid as can be measured

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Considering what you measure with, that doesn't have much meaning.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Explain to me how you think I'm measuring, fuckwit. You have a judgement on a thing, you should be able to articulate what that thing is, right?

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Badly; as someone who is culturally illiterate, lacks the skills of observation to make any determination (whether it be about myself or the subject of the world around us), is incapable of actually making any arguments, and so uses "colourful language" in a juvenile attempt to cover up their shortcomings.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    The question I asked you was to explain the method by which I was making a judgement, which you presumed to know.

    Can you answer it, stupid? Or are we going to get another paragraph about how you being snide is supposed to obscure the fact that you can't maintain a coherent thought throughout one of your posts?

    Mister five subordinate clauses per sentence.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Well, I rest my case. You are a... pointless individual. I do hope you have better luck in real life than on the internet.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago

    No, you're a pointless individual because you literally have no point in this argument. I asked you for what your point was and you've done nothing but evade and insult. You're a vapid fucking idiot. See? I can actually stake a position.

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