This is a relief. This plus Vucic losing in Serbia has made for a pretty good day
post
Good to see Lula did not let the right-wingers walk all over him and rig the elections without fighting back.
The time for playing nice with cheating foreign agents is over.
The American billionaires aren't going to like their right wing puppet lost
Now if only British Columbia hadn't put the conservatives in power there.
On the plus side, from what I've read they're mostly old fashioned sane conservatives rather than Trumpian lunatics. Some of them are on the far right edge but hopefully the rest will keep them in check, the party's actual policies aren't too bad.
The most "sane" conservative policies are still murderous.
Just the old fashioned neoliberalism we have come to love? Let's let the good times trickle down!
Their electoral priorities are to cut sex education and hamstring indigenous treaty negotiations, which is nkt a promising start.
Were they up front about that to voters? Those seem like really dumb things for people to choose to vote for.
oh, VERY up front. "SOGI" and "DRIPA" are the relevant Parliamentary search terms. They don't want kids to learn about TeH GaY and they're scaremongering about ebil natives taking all the land from the poor white people.
It is basically government by Facebook outrage.
Do companies like Facebook and Twitter target the publicly facing politicians accounts with specific algorithms to incite this bullshit?
Like nothing is stopping elon& zuck from specifically targeting Trump or these guys with nonsense far right rage bait making them think what they wants? Scaremongering them into these dumb ass positions?
By a whooping 1.5% difference, we haven't got a mob boss on the head of the executive power, with an aligned congress and the capacity of putting 2 judges on the supreme court and get a majority there.
So... whew... our democracy will only die slowly now. Beats dying quickly.
A whopping 10 million more people voted for Lula in this second turn of the election, and he had a 4 million voters lead on Flávio. That's not a bad number. Now our job is to push the government in prosecuting all the mayors and secretaries involved in undermining the election.
So the good guys won but didn't win hard enough for your tastes.
Just take the W and have a nice night. Now there's an opportunity for improvement, that's a good thing.
Look at the United States.
Joe Biden beat Trump in 2020.
And remember the cheering, and the relief, and the way people felt on that day.
Never forget that day.
There's some differences. Bolsonaro was actually arrested, while the US was too afraid to arrest Trump.
It was indeed a good day.
It later got squandered, sure. But that day was good.
Any good guy was long gone before the candidates were selected.
Still, it's better than Flavio winning.
Alas, "the least-worst candidate who had a plausible chance of winning" is generally the best outcome for most democracies.
Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Or the "well he's okay I guess", in this case.
He's far from ok, though. Our democracy is dying, in large part because of him.
He is just way less worse than that other guy.
Our democracy is dying, in large part because of him.
Can you please explain? I haven't been following what's been going on in Brazil very closely.
Lula has been mired in corruption charges out the wazoo. Now, it turns out that at least some of them were a result of a corrupt, right-wing judiciary colluding against him, so his initial conviction was rightly overturned. But he was facing a lot of charges, and they were not necessarily all made up. Regardless, they were all swept away, just like that, meaning he has neither been found guilty or innocent of most of the charges of corruption against him.
Among all the people in as populous a country as Brazil, you'd think you'd be able to find a better candidate than an unpopular geriatric, who, rightly so or not, has had an incredulous amount of accusations of corruption against him.
But even if Lula was the second-worst possible candidate in all of Brazil, he is still many, many orders of magnitude better than the candidate he ultimately ran and won against. There's no comparison.
he has neither been found guilty or innocent of most of the charges of corruption against him
I assumed Brazil's judicial system used the same presumption of innocence as the US. How does it work in Brazil?
The government made a new law making it impossible to judge politicians for corruption, and the Supreme Court decided that it applies retroactively to Lula, making it so no judgement was considered valid.
The way I'm interpreting it is that the charges were dismissed or retracted before they went to trial. The same thing can happen in the US.
For reference, Brazil uses a different legal philosophy (Civil Law) than most of the US and English-speaking countries (Common Law) so there are differences in how things work compared to the US, but presumption of innocence is also a feature in that philosophy, and specifically codified into law there from what I see on wiki.
Half of the Supreme court is involved in a corruption scandal, while he is papering over the problem; Half of the Congress is involved on that same scandal and some half in another large scandal, and he didn't direct the police to investigate (he and the Supreme Court are the only ones that can); We have a new law mandating that common crimes from politicians can only be judge by a court that has no judge, and he was one of the main creators of it... The list goes on and on.
I'm glad for this and enough good people showed up this time. It shouldn't be so close though in all these elections, but the lies work. Canada had to back away from the edge last time and others have still gone to the authoritarian bs. They spread the propaganda more than ever to keep winning with their lies so don't fall for it. See that history shows their ways suck long-term and healthy ways proven in other countries are the way to go. Stay the course of proven healthy policies and demand better! Swinging back and forth is like a wrecking ball, and can't rebuild as fast as destroy. Think critically, refute the propaganda, use Sagan's baloney detection kit to understand accurately, read Democracy In Chains, you can do better!!
Who is Lula ?
A man who has been opposing the far right in Brazil since the 70s. He became a union leader after a workplace incident and medical negligence caused him to lose his little finger at 17 years old working in a steel mill, as he had been working there during the nights to be able to afford living. From union leader, he spent many years fighting the far-right USA-backed military dictatorship in Brazil, ending up in prison more than once, and also suffering torture. In 1989, when Brazil recovered its democracy, he ran for president against Collor, a rich asshole from the far right, and then lost because of the far right propaganda of "He is a Communist, he will take your pension money and savings from you!!". What ended up happening though was that Collor himself had that plan, his right-wing government froze the savings accounts of middle class people, and then confiscated it all. A few years later, in 2002, Lula finally won the presidency, and his first and second turns (2003-2010) were the fastest Brazil has ever grown and developed, we went from 12th to 6th economy in the world, and cruised unscathed through 2008 economic crisis. On top of all that, his early government is responsible for saving millions of people from hunger and misery, and for the first time ever Brazil had left the world's hunger map. And then he was reelected back in 2022 and had to repeat the same feat of saving people from hunger and misery yet again, because of what the previous two far-right governments did.
Kind of a dumb and dumber choice there, unfortunately. Both are kind of putinist.
But Bolsonaro would've been slightly worse in various other ways so yay I guess.
all 63 comments