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[–] 15 points 1 month ago* (5 children)

What if the problem is the assumption that problems can be solved with rigid rules, universally applied without consideration of context? What if the problem is the assumption that rules make something objective?

There's no universal definition of "asshole". That's okay; you can still have "Don't be an asshole" as a rule, because the interpretation of rules is inherently a subjective act. You can either subjectively interpret this rule, or you can subjectively interpret a convoluted system of rules designed to exclude assholes in an "objective" way, and fail at both excluding assholes AND being objective.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    Assholes don't care if everyone ends up miserable, including themselves. They will go out of their way to ignore, frustrate or undermine any rules set. This includes creating edge cases as well as pretend compliance.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago

    100, and exactly why you need the first mechanism from the OP. You need a librarian type who can explain something like "while sighing may not be against any rules they need to be more considerate or they need to leave; and then sigh to their heart's content "

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  • [–] 27 points 1 month ago* (3 children)

    the solution is sunshine laws, careful admittance and a requirement to participate in education and governance by all members

    aka just look at all the things project 2025 is attacking and do the opposite

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  • [–] 16 points 1 month ago* (2 children)

    The solution is sunshine laws

    For anyone dumb like me: sunshine laws and sun down laws are very different. Sunshine for transparent governance, sun down for racist bullshit.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    At the risk of opening a can of worms: this is a paradox well-known to Christianity. Jesus teaches us to include the marginalized, to love our “neighbor” without limits. But then Jesus also gives instructions about when to remove people from the community and, of course, expected people to stop being assholes if they truly want to follow Him (Jesus called this “repentance” and “sinning no more”). The assholes made use of the the inclusiveness bit and managed to overrun the Church while also pushing the marginalized out.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    I mean yeah it requires maintenance. That's what they did in the US and are trying to do everywhere else in the world now too -- "just go make money don't worry about anything else!". And now our society is falling apart because everyone is just trying to make more money and nobody cares about their community anymore.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago

    It's not like there's an objective definition of "asshole". The distinction is one of degree more than of category - someone does something bad enough and they're an asshole rather than just annoying.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 month ago* (8 children)

    It's why true anarchy and communism are pipe dreams. They all hinge on the assumption that assholes who lust for power over all else stop existing, as well as the idiots they charm with their charisma.

    Those people are like a glioblastoma (unsurvivable brain tumor). Sure, you can get rid of the bulk of the tumor, but it's little tendrils remain and it'll come back eventually

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  • [–] 15 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    this is inherant in all human systems, not like capitalism is immune either

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago* (1 child)

    I think the theory is that capitalism pits the unbearable assholes' psychotic ambitions against one another and allows the normal people to reap the benefits of their relentless competition, while a functional democracy regulates the economy to prevent any one particular asshole from gaining too much power and enforces regulations to handle the externalities, and that in a functional democracy nobody who is too much of an asshole can ever get too powerful.

    Of course, all of that presumes a functional democracy and... well... [gestures around broadly]

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    What's to stop you from excluding assholes from shared spaces in anarchy and communism? They're free to have their own asshole patch, ofc, but in a society...

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  • [–] 0 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    The problem is that they're never satisfied with just their little patch. They want everything.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago

    One could say that we have an antagonism that unfolds into evolving outcomes over time. I wonder if there's like a name for that, or something!

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago

    This is Late Stage Capitalism to a T!

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  • [–] 6 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    Hermits have it right apparently. Given those logical extremes, the third option of simply having no groups and becoming hyper-independent is THE way to go.

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