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[–] 46 points 1 month ago (1 child)

I'm of an opposite mind. I reckon the author wrote this in the dip, and we'll see a rebound soon where FOSS is strengthened by anti-AI sentiments.

We need to stop being agnostic, draw a line, and begin rejecting any genAI involvement in open source before it’s actually too late.

exactly.

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  • [–] 26 points 1 month ago

    Overall I agree, but it is missing and important aspect: maintainability.

    This is maybe the most insidious part of LLM use to write code. Since LLMs have no real understanding of the structure of the project they will duplicate functions and generally make a mess that very quickly becomes unmaintainable by humans. The only "solution" LLM users have for that is perpetually rewriting large swaths of the codebase introducing new bugs, removing features and so on.

    Since open-source software is usually especially long lived and maintained by a changing group of people, this results in code bases that are like asbestos that no one wants to even touch.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    In addition to the other comments here, we can't rule out the human love for hobbies either. Did I spend 2 days hand coding an entire blog that I won't show to anyone just for fun to learn some HTML and CSS? Hell yeah I did. Will I use that knowledge to make something less chaotically coded that I can actually be proud of? More than likely.

    Obviously that won't be a large percentage of the market if even a noticeable one but, I'd like to think hobbyists will help preserve some good open source projects.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 month ago

    I was thinking the other day how easy it would be for someone malicious to put a back door in whatever AI slop they make

    I’d almost rather see all AI generated content be posted to its own separate open source platform “GitSlop” or something

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  • [–] 11 points 1 month ago (8 children)

    😩 If you want to be absurdly narrow minded and treat OSI like some deity, their word like a holy book, and anything outside of that scripture or benediction as heresy, then maybe you'll see the arrival of AI as some kind of ragnarok.

    Opensource will change but it won't be "killed". You can't and won't stop people putting the code for their projects online. The stuff you (or your agent or whatever) publish will continue to be used as an open portfolio.

    A good amount of stuff published will be filth and indistinguishable from clonker filth or human filth. Additionally, local AI will also become more common. Making your code indistinguishable will also make the "AI code is unlicensable" argument worthless. Go prove that the trash heap I published was written while drunk and high or by an AI.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 month ago* (1 child)

    Slop projects and slop submissions existed before the current crop of AI but it's certainly lowered the barrier. That said I suspect there are places AI can help. Simple patches, human guided refactores, test cases. We'll have data points from the projects that turned on the slop cannons and started auto accepting PRs soon enough.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 month ago* (5 children)

    Some projects are already quietly saying "just don't tell people it's AI" and to make it look indistinguishable, then get on with life.

    Can't say I have any good rebuttals against that tbh.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    That’s pretty much the subtext of bans anyway. To guarantee undetectable use the contributor must treat gen code like a junior’s draft and refactor prior to PR. If it’s undetectable, the end result is the same from the maintainer’s perspective.

    And it’s not a new approach. This has long been true for contributions containing “found” code; we define what’s allowed knowing we can’t actually enforce the rule against the most artfully obfuscated violations because, aside from achieving ostensibly the same result, having that tappable sign protects the project from a lot of BS down the line.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    It's getting harder to tell the difference though. Slop artists can still prompt their agent to follow the codebase's existing style/format.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    And we have to expect that trend will continue. I haven’t tested frontier capabilities since April but I know for a fact my local drafters are producing far fewer obvious smells than I remember seeing in frontier outputs even just last year.

    Current frontier is likely still detectable by an experienced engineer, especially if they’ve seen enough gen code to recognize the patterns, but might otherwise be indistinguishable from junior-level work. That is, I wouldn’t be surprised if the current frontier models didn’t output ANY giveaway “slop” code or outright hallucinations. Symptoms might be more abstract like inelegant architectural decisions, obtuse alg/structure selection, or design choices that demonstrate no grasp of overall objectives.

    My point was that from a project maintainer’s perspective, quality is more a side effect, and there’s no effective difference between no AI and no detectable AI. The actual point of a no-vibecode policy is (A) to communicate expectations, ensuring contributors know their PR must pass a sniff test, that their name is on it, so blind PR submission is never a safe choice, and (B) to have a bulletproof policy to refer to in retrospect if ever issues relating to AI use in the project arise.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago* (1 child)

    My point was that

    That's all fine and dandy, I just don't agree with simultaneously saying "make it indistinguishable if you're gonna use AI" in addition to "don't use AI", since as you say there is no effective difference if you can't tell, so why should it still be disallowed? Surely we can come up with some middle ground to describe the intent of the rule better than silently implying "just don't get caught"?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago

    Well the idea is to NOT say “make it indistinguishable” (even if that’s inevitably the practical upshot) because the second you explicitly allow “indistinguishable” you open a can of worms arguing over what that means.

    The same result unfortunately seems to be found by any attempt seeking this “middle ground,” because there’s always a cohort implicitly requesting that project maintainers bless their low-effort use of AI. (As to why this is, I’m not sure, but based on what I’ve seen would guess it’s because the AI use lets these individuals cosplay as developers.)

    Regardless, that result is a huge influx of PRs which have obviously been submitted by individuals incapable of understanding, fixing, or taking responsibility for what they’ve submitted, which is an immediately intractable problem for project maintainers who already began with limited time to review PRs which, in spite of their varying quality, could at least be assumed to be understood by the contributor. Allowing any amount AI enables some amount of obvious (read: unfiltered/unreviewed) generated code, every bit of which is potentially problematic.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago*

    I hope my drive-by PRs don't come off in the same way.

    For example, as the simplest no-description, no-comment example, when I see typos or wording errors in text on a random blog I check if there's a direct way to contribute - to GitHub edit and submit a PR, and when there is, I do that.

    There's nothing for me to say or describe, really, and it's not like I interacted with their project or community before or even plan to after. (Sometimes I do look into the issue tracker etc depending on the project or website. But that's beside the raised concern.)

    I see it more of a collective and open collaboration. But that's not necessarily visible on the receiving end.

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  • [+] -15 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    I think ai will enhance open source projects. Maybe not all, but some. World be be completely different in 10-20 years anyway.

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    [–] 29 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    Conceptually open source is merely a human effort that relies on collaboration and knowledge sharing, however there is a paradox that is rarely talked about, its how that collective collaborative human effort is being used against its purpose.

    LLM models take such knowledge from open source, feed it back in a profit first capitalist model, the outcome will always be mediocre output, until mediocracy becomes the norm (actually it is now), so in some way our human nature of being collaborative & seeking to help each other is being punished by the same technology we created.

    So we need to start thinking on how to fucking end this shit, i think we need to poison the fuck out of every llm.

    Disclaimer: best day of my year was when ballistic missiles were hitting and burning corporate AI data centers in the Middle East.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    Yep.

    So many have been over focused, IMO, on the question of how good AI is or isn’t, when that’s only part and arguably a small part of “the problem”. It’s the massive shift in where we belong in our own world and how much that world belongs to people or people who own big machines or just the machines themselves.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    I don't care about open source software. It's just a way for corpos to make us work without payment.

    What I do care about is free/libre software. In my mind, there is only one real shortcoming to the free/libre software movement: corporations.

    I want to share my software with other people. Not corporations, but individuals, and I guess non-profit type things.

    I would like to see an anti-corpo movement of otherwise entirely libre software development. It would no longer be "free" according to, say, the FSF, but it would be preferable in my opinion.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

    Correction.... It will make it unaffordable. Not kill but hog up resources... in the material realm as well as other sectors of existence. People join the imperial baby skull crushing fraternity aka the foot soldiers of the zombie corp mercenary army of turdcoat deplorables. Cops/hogs and soldiers are the worst. Their power comes from injustice and conformity lifted up by the marketurds and feasted on by the too stupid to know they are stupids. The over socialized herd will go to the path of least resistance and if what is considered normal is to wear a dildo on your head then they will. That's why you call them dickheads.

    They crowd sourced tyranny and got us to build our cages because we forgot how to live. I do not think as they do. No one and I mean no one needs the gipity.

    They may have secrets but their actions look stupid. The cutting edge is a wet slimy baby diaper fart.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago

    ah beeps, always enjoy its writing

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