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[–] 191 points 1 year ago* (12 children)

Immediately after this she also says that short-term gains & geopolitical power (ie USA).

She just says that racism allows such a system to even exist.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (11 children)

    What is her reasoning that racism allows the system to exist? It seems like a desire for geopolitical power could easily create the same situation without racism.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

    My understanding (with by words - just bcs I find it obvious):
    Few people create & maintain the system actively, the rest of them/us just feed it money & don't do anything when it's killing children or exploiting the poorest countries on Earth.

    Racism, lack of compassion, the general idea that we (developed countries measured by GDP?) are automatically somehow something more just bcs we were born here & entitled to nice lives supported by a greater number of lives elsewhere, etc.

    (To clarify, racism isn't just the thing towards black people in USA, every nation has it's own forms, and they are rarely based on color, usually it's nationality. So it's easier to say X country should have lower wages bcs it's providing us cheap goods.)

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Racism, lack of compassion, the general idea that we (developed countries measured by GDP?) are automatically somehow something more just bcs we were born here & entitled to nice lives supported by a greater number of lives elsewhere, etc.

    Right. My point is that the first is independent of the second two. You can lack compassion and only care about yourself while also not being racist.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago*

    My point is that the first is independent of the second two.

    ... so compassionate racists too??
    Yeah, I don't think so, not really, the least thinking pleb.

    You can lack compassion and only care about yourself while also not being racist.

    Hm, not really in practice - the argument is valid only on theoretical, isolated personal level.
    But that's is not how racism works/exist, racism is a systemic issue.

    If you are "not racist" (~don't have those prejudices) but people around you are ... and you are selfish & without compassion then it is in your best personal/economic/social interest to act just as racist as the rest, so "not racists act racists and participate in racist activities" (and especially not speaking against racism, at least not unless/until you can monetise it).

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Because not seeing the Palestinians as humans makes it easier to ignore the genocide

    If people were being genocided, then that would be an issue. However, we are civilized enough in the West to realize that it is merely Muslim Arabs who are being killed. This makes the justification significantly easier to believe

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (1 child)

    I don't entirely believe that. I think that we in the West are entirely capable of ignoring the suffering of people far away regardless of race. The race of the genocided people might make them easier to ignore for the mean Westerner, but I think with sufficient distance and potential for geopolitical influence, anything is possible.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (4 children)

    because all things equal it’s easier to get your country to support funding genocide of the other

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (3 children)

    Sure. But does this additional ease move the needle from impossible to possible? My intuition is that it does not.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I mean yea, that’s usually how it goes. You start with the racism first to build an enemy. Use that as an excuse to gather power and manufacture consent. The genocide is just an after thought to the people in power but it’s part of the whole shebang.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    My default position is that the average person is okay with genocide regardless of who is being genocided as long as those people are far away and don't impact their lives. Caring about people you have never met is not a default human response.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    that’s true until they see it on tv / in person

    they are only far away if they are out of mind

    but if you precondition your population to see them as vermin fist it softens the horror

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  • [–] 68 points 1 year ago* (10 children)

    I think it's probably more the geopolitics, Isreal is in deep with the Military Industrial Complex, the US Intelligence Agencies, and the future plans the US has for the Middle East (namely the agreement between the US, Israel, the Saudis and India to create a trade passage through the area).

    But yeah, if you look at Peter Thiel's work with Israel's intelligence R&D company Carbyne you'll find US agencies near by...

    ...and lots of these shadey dealing go back generations and have been done by Republican and Democrat Presidents. I think it was Obama who agreed to give Israel 38 billion to buy US weapons - an agreement which basically made the US the sole external supplier for their munitions.

    I suppose beyond that it's historical, religious, and racial... But there's more to it than that.

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  • [–] 71 points 1 year ago* (5 children)

    She explains exactly this, the meme just cut it all out.

    youtube.com/watch?v=Hk1WEhO07Bw&t=759

    Immediately after "racism" she also says that it's for short-term gains & geopolitical power (ie USA).

    Continuous racism is what allows such a system to even/still exist.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    I mean, racism might make it easier for the US to push forward with less resistance, but the relationship with Israel has always seemed more steeped in religious/geopolitics than anything else. For the US they like having a strong tie to a nation centered in the middle east, and there are some weird Christians who believe that they can enable the second coming.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    Politicians' religion is money and power. Other religions are just a way to manipulate mass opinion.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    This is a very cynical take, but I'm going to be more cynical and say that, no, I still think that some politicians are religious wackadoodles. Power flows not to the just, and not even to the Machiavellian, but with a high degree of randomness. The world is chaos, and not even the most powerful can tame it.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    It took six decades to get here, I'm hard-headed, you know? I didn't want to believe it, but I can't live in denial, anymore.

    The world is chaos,

    Sure

    and not even the most powerful can tame it.

    One side makes plans and can't manage random variables; the other rides the lightening with audacity and wins. IDK how that works. If we're doing cliché, fortune favors the bold, I guess? 🤷‍♀️

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    Geopolitical power is the only reason, especially for the initial decision (USA could have dumped Jews in Palestine & aided them in getting citizenships in the holy land, but that's not how USA gets their marionettes - they instead pump cash intro local terrorist groups until one forms a government & takes over which nets them a sympathetic gov/county reliant on them ... at a human cost we can't even comprehend).

    The religious etc reasons are purely what has been used for 80 years by the USA for their purposes (and has since entered, via USAs political power, in the core belief system of their colonies).

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    There's also the concern that if support for Israel is dropped, an Iran-led coalition will go to war with them. Israel being attacked is unimaginable to a lot of people that grew up in the shadow of ww2.

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  • [–] 98 points 1 year ago (12 children)

    she's not wrong, if it were white people that were being killed there would be more reaction

    heck, trump made up a white genocide in south Africa just to make them look bad

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  • [–] 16 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    She's not wrong, but also not 100% right. Racism plays a part, but there's also a good helping of "I've got mine" along with a whole lot of money tired into the military-industrial complex

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    There's a reason that class consciousness is social consciousness.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Eh, not necessarily. Class consciousness is important, but thinking that it completely overlaps with social consciousness not true. People compartmentalize things.

    For example male black homophobes are common in America; Which is ironic because one would think that a black male would understand how it feels being a marginalized caste. Nevertheless, they do not transfer there own experience of racism with their own actions against homosexuals.

    So my point is, being class conscious does not guarantee someone to become social conscious as well.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (3 children)

    Being bad at one is what makes you bad at the other. Nazbols aren't class conscious, the term means more than "vaguely aware that the rich run things and maybe they shouldn't"

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

    Restating your prior point in a different way doesn't make it any more or less correct. The point is these two things seem to be independent from each other, which, if true, would already disprove the modified claim you are presenting.

    The issue is, there exist plenty of people who are bad at both, good at both, and bad at one and good at the other. This pattern doesn't support a strong connection between being class conscious and being socially conscious.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child)

    The thing about explaining simple math like x=y is that the slower, stubborn students that don't know or understand how these letters can mean numbers usually just need it to be phrased a different way because they're hung up on some irrelevancey.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    The correct method is to actually articulate the irrelevancy; but that takes real work... Either that or perhaps the teacher doesn't understand what the irrelevancy is, so instead, they resort to just repeating the same thing: not internalizing that perhaps the math isn't as simple as they think.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    Hell yeah. We've even got people who voted Trump despite illegal immigrants in their family, or being married to one because: "he's only going to deport the bad ones".

    There's also people who themselves came in the same way but eventually did get legal standing/citizenship yet are in full support of what's going on now.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    Remember how the world jumped to save insert long list of European countries during WW2 or the siege of Sarajevo?

    The fact that both sides are the same race in this just makes it funnier

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Systemic is an important word to include. Systemic racism.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    Is this that weird, newfangled definition of racism where the actual beliefs and intentions of the actors arent considered, but the outcomes of a particular racial group are, so any action that makes a racial group worse off relative to any other racial group is racism?

    Because if so, this statement seems very cart-before-the-horse. "If all racial groups were equally impacted by all actions, this wouldn't be happening" is true, I guess... But it's kind of like saying "if no one ever got murdered, this wouldn't be happening."

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    Systemic racism refers to the systems and structures that create and perpetuate racial inequality in society, affecting various aspects of life, including wealth, employment, housing, healthcare, education, and the criminal justice system. It's not just about individual prejudice, but rather about the deeply embedded discriminatory practices, policies, and beliefs within institutions.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago (8 children)
  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Vote for non aipac politicians

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Aipac's sole job is to make that either impossible or unlikely to work. They're very good at that.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago* (3 children)
  • [–] 24 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Israel is the West’s ally so the West backs Israel

    Ethics are only used to draw support to your side, they don’t really exist

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    [–] 17 points 1 year ago (5 children)
  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Europe isn't doing much either. Especially Germany and Italy stay on Israel's side.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    Germany at the very least are very overt about their "unwavering support for Israel" being wholly because they're "the Jewish Nation", which is about the purest Racist motivation possible.

    One might claim, as others did, that for the US geostrategical concerns apply, but for Germany the only reason for their support of that nation whilst it murders Palestinian children is the ethnicity of the genociders.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child)

    it's ironic they used to genocide jews and now by trying to not step on their toes again, they once again choose the side of facism and genocide, same for Italy

    edit: removed accidental formatting

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    It's doubly ironic that by insisting on the idea that a nation committing such a violent Genocide represents all Jews - and doing so against actual Jewish voices saying that "they do not represent us" - they're implying that all the horrible actions commited in this Genocide are Jewish things to do.

    So Germany is back at associating being a Jew with some of the most horrible things a person can do AND at telling Jews that they know better what the nature of being a Jew is than the actual people who are Jewish and deny that Israel represents them.

    Instead of Humanism were the duty of compensation is to the actual victims independently of race, they anchored their theatre of making amends on good old race discrimination and racial prejudice (only supposedly "positive") so naturally and as was bound to happen, ended up in their traditional racist tropes of "knowing better than Jews what beings Jew is" and "associating being a Jews with horrible actions such as murdering babies".

    The folklore and symbology of Nazism might have been made illegal, but the way of thinking about other people as nothing more than members of races who should be treated differently depending on race, and which is the foundation of Nazism, is alive, well, and continuing to be promoted.

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  • [–] 43 points 1 year ago (34 children)
  • [+] -13 points 1 year ago (33 children)
  • [–] 60 points 1 year ago* (9 children)

    the full quote, which is actually quite accurate and succinct:

    "Because of racism, that's the simple answer I would say. Racism, and uh, basically, desperately trying to defend a destructive deadly system, that systematically puts short term economic profit, and to maximize geopolitical power, over the well being of humans and the planet. And right now it's very very difficult to morally defend that, it is impossible, but still, they are desperately trying which is... absurd is not the word, but there are no words to describe it."

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    It's sad that this statement is true to the core, but I've seen statements and videos of Israelites literally claiming that Palestinians are not considered human. They are considered beneath, or less than human due to their belief, and that is how they are justifying their ethnic cleansing of the area.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago*

    Dehumanizing is always the first step. Male them less than human and the people will let you abuse them. Once they get used to that, you can demonize the next group, and it will be even easier to get the rubes on board.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    It's a damn injustice that they clipped that quote down to "racism".

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    I mean....is it?

    Sure, the extended quote gives more reason and specific examples and highlights the moral bankruptcy of an economic system which never benefitted anyone but its own elite, and now has to cannabilize its values and populace to perpetuate its own existence even as it erodes under the weight of its own demand for consumption and profit while shedding every ounce of legitimacy like a rabid dog shaking off fleas...

    but if you weren't raised as a middle class or above white person in the West, you already knew it was racism.

    THIS is what you consider an injustice? Pathetic.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    Go drink some water, pal. I thought it was a very well worded statement, and stripping it down like so really robbed it of a lot of its potency, imo. It's fine to disagree with me, that's your business, but to extrapolate that I consider this narrow quoting to be the injustice of injustices in this world is a little goddamn silly.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    The correct word would be chauvinism: racism is chauvinism based on racial differences, but it could also be based on wealth or religion, on food preferences or anything arbitrary...

    chauvinism is the root cause for all evil in the world

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    I would argue that is misleading only because it removes the central operating mechanism of the West's massive accumulation of wealth and domination of global politics; namely, the ideological belief that not only are Europeans superior, but that they are superior as a function of immutable, natural characteristics that can be elucidated through reason, intellect, and scientific inquiry and observation.

    To cheapen the global Western project of white supremacy by simply calling it a derivative of chauvinism belittles the intentionality and institutionalization of the cultural project and lends credence to the idea that Europeans simply did what any other group would have done under the circumstances. Besides the apologist rhetoric apparent there, it also gives ammunition to the argument that the descendants of these people hold no responsibility for inheriting such a legacy, and therefore have no incentive to stop its perpetuation.

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    There are other factors. And they're all rooted in racism.

    Even the corruption of things like AIPAC. It's racism weaponized via bribery and blackmail. I don't know what AIPAC is called in other countries and don't care. But I know it exists. And its all just racism.

    There is no grey area here. There is no debate. There are no "buts" here. An illegal settler occupation is ethnically cleansing an indigenous population. There is good and evil. And the ones doing the slaughtering are evil. Categorically, ontologically, indisputably evil. Period.

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  • [+] -9 points 1 year ago (4 children)
  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Okay, but the question is about why the world is not reporting it, not why Israel is doing it. Racism and secularism are the main culprits for the way it's being reported.

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  • [+] 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Yeah, no one is innocent here. No one. I don't see Hamas genociding Israelites here though, do you? Secularism is for sure at play here. Christian nations are against the dirty Palestinian Muslims and their barbaric practices /s. They got most of their book from Judaism. They all worship the same fricking God though, Muslims included. You can't make it make sense, and it never will to outsiders unfortunately. I am not uplifting anyone into the spotlight, but at least some people ha e actual morals.

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  • [–] 17 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    I'm glad everyone is listening to her and not giving a shit about what you think

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  • [+] -19 points 1 year ago (4 children)
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    If that's what passes for an insult these days, I'll happily take it! This world could use more people with vivid imaginations rather than blowhards who get bunched up over semantics.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago* (4 children)

    This is a naive way to look at a news article.

    She may have elaborated further but do you really think the press is going print an essay over a sound bite? Especially on social media?

    Greta has made longer statements on this, why not look them up before thinking you know something you don't?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    Who benefits from her elaborating? I think the one word quote does an adequate job of naming the problem clearly and making it recognizable.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    One word answers in a headline are almost always done with express intent of ragebaiting people on social media because it helps algorithms promote posts if people respond to them. Its not about clarity, its about ambiguity

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    You're right about the intent, but it still doesn't diminish what I said. Racism also goes a long way towards explaining the methods that Western media excuses to rationalize violence against the rest of the world (see: all the reporting about Israeli airstrikes in Iran or the anti-immigration protests in N. Ireland)

    The sooner we call a spade a spade instead of arguing over specifics, the less people will die.

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  • [–] 22 points 1 year ago (13 children)

    $$ Money $$

    There's no money in helping Gaza.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    That's only kind of true. There's a lot of money that could be found in funding Gaza. As someone made a point elsewhere in this thread. Money was made in Ukraine due to us funding it and some creative accounting, but the smart money move was to allow Russia to invade and save money/exploit off the back of the chaos.

    In an almost identical way the U.S. could have funded Gaza and made money dragging out the war, but it didn't happen because of decades of entrenched racism and Zionism.

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  • [+] -10 points 1 year ago (11 children)

    There was no money in helping Ukraine, yet it was done. 100% lack of optics due to racism.

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago

    Not directly, but by sending weapons etc to Ukraine, the US can basically wage war against Russia with no casualties of their own, while replacing the old stuff they send with new stuff, as well as justifying more military spending in the budget. For the right people, there's plenty of profits to be made.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Ukraine is one of the worlds bread baskets and critical to global infrastructure. There was very much money in helping Ukraine.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    For European countries supporting Ukraine is also important for their own safety. If Russia were to win it will go on to attack the next country. Every loss Russia suffers in Ukraine is a win for places like Romania, Moldavia etc.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago

    A vital element in keeping the peace is our military establishment. Our arms must be mighty, ready for instant action, so that no potential aggressor may be tempted to risk his own destruction. . . . American makers of plowshares could, with time and as required, make swords as well. But now we can no longer risk emergency improvisation of national defense; we have been compelled to create a permanent armaments industry of vast proportions. . . . This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. . . .Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. . . . In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

    Dwight D Eisenhower's farewell address, 1961

    There was absolutely money in Ukraine. When you read "billions of dollars in weapons sent", if Ukraine received the weapons who do you think received the billion dollars?

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    I would say “interests at large” rather than dollars.

    Ukraine is military strategic interest (nobody in Europe wants to have Russia to randomly decide to start a war with an EU country)

    In Middle East (with oil) is dollars

    In Taiwan is military strategic interest

    On the other side of the spectrum? Myanmar, Gaza, random African conflicts, etc

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  • [+] 2 points 1 year ago (4 children)
  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago* (3 children)

    Because Trump is a Russian asset and defunding Ukraine benefits Putin.

    Your basic understanding of global politics is shit, mate.

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  • [+] 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago

    Not sure if it is just racism here in NL or because the Ukraine war is more important for us here since it is a lot closer and more relevant than us.

    The bullshit in the US is also something we have a bigger impact on than the war in Gaza even though we will have new elections soon.

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