Fuck this crap! This should be opt-in by having to add _mapme to the SSID!
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Can you explain this and how to do it like I'm an ignorant peasant filthy casual?
The link has instructions
Well, @passenger@sopuli.xyz mentioned that it’s on the google page. But then when I chose some of the brands under “Find specific steps for your access point”, it’s a bit useless because manufacturers web admins have no sense of discipline or self-control. They cannot resist the urge to rearrange their website which broke Google’s links. But further below on Google’s page are some general instructions. I would try to follow those. And if you get stuck, maybe try posting a support request in !homenetworking@selfhosted.forum.
(update) I just had a closer look at the general instructions to do a quick sanity check. Google’s instructions for linux are bad at the 2nd step. That is, running ifconfig as a linux user can be tricky.. might need to run /sbin/ifconfig instead. And even if it runs, it does not give the gateway anyway.
If you’re on linux, run ip route instead, which will say something like default via 192.168.1.1. Whatever IP address is the default gateway, that is what you need for the next step. Note I am only talking about linux. Google’s instructions are probably fine for other platforms.
Your info for Apple seems wrong. This support article says it uses "_nomap" just like Google says:
It is such bullshit that this is even opt out. The level of non-consensual data gathering is infuriating and disappointing.
You're not wrong, but in this one instance you're not entirely right, either. If your SSID is set to broadcast then you're sending it out there for anyone to see and use however they see fit. You're basically opting in by that alone. The fact that most WIFI routers are set to broadcast by default and most users have no idea how to change it is another argument entirely.
Apple seems to say hiding your SSID will not protect you:
“This opt-out doesn't work for hidden networks because they make their network name available only to known devices, so other devices can't detect "_nomap."”
So IIUC, if you hide your SSID and an Apple spy (read: normal iOS user) connects to it, their device will ignore the _nomap token and report your AP to the mothership. And note as well that a hidden SSID only makes your AP invisible in the absence of traffic. iOS devices can probably see and process traffic that happens to be in motion when they are in range.
If a SSID is set to hidden, clients in that network will broadcast the name of the network, so it's usually not hidden at all. I don't buy the argument that broadcasting the SSID means to allow opting in to anything.
https://wifi.report/blog/hidden-ssids-security-myth-vs-reality.html
Saw this in the article:
This is the biggest drawback of hidden SSIDs. When a network is hidden, your phone or laptop has to constantly shout, "Are you there, [Hidden Home Network]?" everywhere you go.
There is a paper that describes how an iOS device listens to everyone else’s phones as they broadcast all the SSIDs they connect to (regardless of where the two phones intersect). It gave the impression that phones also reveal non-hidden SSIDs when looking to connect, as it’s uncommon for people to have hidden SSIDs.
I’m glad that opting out is available, but there is no practical, technical enforcement. Who is to say that they don’t collect the data anyway? Google is exactly the type of business to ask for forgiveness.
I’m glad that opting out is available, but there is no practical, technical enforcement.
What sort of technologically-enforced mechanism might you envision that does not rely on legal enforcement?
Lately I practice the only tech-enforced option I know of: wholly pull the plug on wi-fi. Indeed, this means I only have ethernet in my house and wifi radios are disabled. It also means for my smartphone to reach the cloud, I am reverse tethering over USB. Try getting a crowd of people to do that. I will praise you if you can get 10 people to do that.
There is such a thing as bluetooth routers. So a middle ground would be to pull the plug on wi-fi and use bluetooth instead. Though it’s a compromise because we cannot¹ be certain that Google does not also harvest bluetooth. But at least the limited range would mean fewer cases where the signal reaches the street. Of course you would have to be okay with the slower speed.
If Google violates their own policy, it’s legally actionable. So if you are going to run wi-fi you can do your part in helping grow the legal liability that Google has signed up for. I see no good excuse for not appending _nomap to the end of your SSID. It’s just pure lazyness not to.
¹ well strictly speaking, we might know from the location data whether Google uses bluetooth. But if it’s not part of the location data it would not be an absolute indicator that it’s not collected.
apologies for my repeated comment here from your other post, but your info for Apple seems wrong. This support article says it uses "_nomap" just like Google says:
Glad to hear Apple has aligned with Google on that.
me too! from your post I added an SSID to my APs with _nomap suffixed. which might not be sufficient, admittedly, it's not clear if any SSID without it will be used, or if an "opted out" SSID with the same hardware ID as an SSID without the prefix will also cause non-"opted out" SSIDs to be disregarded as well
What I would expect to happen is when an AOS or iOS device falls in your range in the future, it will not report the AP to the mothership. But the motherships will still remember the history and perhaps be able to continue exploiting it. To have more certainty, I would change the MAC address on the AP if it lets you, and perhaps also change the prefix of the SSID for good measure. If your AP gives no means for changing the MAC, you could investigate replacing the firmware with openwrt -- but probably not worth the effort just to change the MAC.
When I setup an AP, I chose the same SSID as a neighbor but then added the suffix for fun.. to confuse things. Then they changed their SSID (perhaps in fear that something dodgy was going on).
Surely this only applies to devices logged into a Google account? (as Android phones must be these days I believe)
What about LineageOS, Graphene etc.?
It has nothing to do with your phone. If you have wi-fi at home and the wireless signal reaches the road, then it’s relevant.
So it's independent of any Google account, they can just use any wifi access point to - do what exactly? Not sure I understand this at all.
I lost the link but the research was done by: Douglas J. Leith, School of Computer Science & Statistics, Trinity College Dublin, Ireland, 25th March, 2021 in a paper titled “Mobile Handset Privacy: Measuring The Data iOS and Android Send to Apple And Google”.
Every Android device owner is a Google spy. Every iOS device owner is an Apple spy. They don’t know it, generally. Android and iOS devices constantly¹ harvest the radio data of their surroundings and they send the data home to their respective mothership. This is hard-wired into the platforms and has nothing todo with accounts. An arbitrary person randomly walks/drives by your house with their iPhone or android powered on, and it collects your SSID, MAC, GPS position, etc and sends it to Google or Apple, unwittingly, because people are oblivious as to what’s going on.
¹ The phone user may need to have location services enabled for the phoning-home to occur.. not sure if turning on location services enables the data sharing in both directions or just one. Guess I need to re-read the research.
I'm sure Google will respect that insignificant detail. It reminds me of the h4x0r forums in the late 90s where people were appending their post with "I forbid you to read my messages if you're working for the FBI."
Or like Claude who promises not to use your source code to train their AI.
Did you follow the link? It’s Google’s own policy.
I’m not seeing a good case here for not putting Google in a position of violating their own legally binding terms.
Legally binding lol
There is nothing legal and they don't give a fuck.
It's cheaper for Google to pay a fine for breaking the law than it is for them to follow it
No it’s not. You have overestimated the value of your wi-fi radio to Google by far. The value of tracking what, a dozen or so opt-out SSIDs per country or so is far more negligable than whatever penalty they would pay. Your SSID squawks aren’t worth that much.
seems easier to not use them
Not to use what? Wi-fi? Of course, if you have no need for an access point, not having one is the best case.
google and apple maps.
The SSID harvesting is not for you. It’s for all of Google and Apple’s users who travel within range of your wi-fi radios. If you are squaking an SSID without opt-out flags, you’re helping Google and Apple regardless of whatever else you do.

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