Its not about converting the crackpots, its about pushing back on insane bullshit so others are less likely to become crackpots.

You're never going to change their minds. That's not the point. The point is to push back against them. So people who see the interaction will see the rebuttal and the pushback against the insanity. That's the important part.

I'm not writing to the crackpot I'm responding to. I'm writing to the lurkers on the fence wondering if he has a valid point.

That might be why I'm so used to replies that look like long-form essays. It takes a lot more words to explain nuance and invite critical thought than it does to shitpost.

I've had cases where I've moved the needle. Got someone to move from "I hate communism!!" to "I see where you're coming from. Capitalism has problems, I admit".

For some people, you need to let them feel heard and avoid being too antagonistic.

Some people are just trolls, though.

You don't change the view of the person you are arguing with on the internet, you are putting a red flag so that would-be readers don't fall into the rabbit hole.

Online debate is fun. I don't care if it falls short of solving the worlds problems.

I've found that, while you can't convince a crackpot of anything, you can study them like a scientific specimen and it can be quite interesting

Everyone just wants an echo chamber and the internet is happy to oblige

​"Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired.

• Jonathan Swift, A Letter to a Young Gentleman, Lately Enter'd Into Holy Orders, 1721 C.E.

My rule to live by (and this seems to trigger people online for some reason whenever I say it): never engage with comments online. I'll post a comment, but >99% of the time there is no reason to reply. Someone has to make it abundantly clear that they are responding in good faith to warrant a response. My life has been much better since I started doing this and I would strongly recommend everyone try it out.

It lives in the internet it lives in the internet oh god help me it lives in the internet

That reminds me, I really must check my inbox

In the dark times of late 2023 I had long discussions with Israel apologists on here, now they don’t seem to exist anymore. Question is, if they actually changed their mind or if they just left, and if my comments had anything to do with that anyway ofc.

no, it never does, i mean, these people somehow delude themselves into thinking it might, but... but it might work for us.

I wonder if the crackpots ever ask themselves am I the crackpot?

Asking for a friend

Having a real discussion online seems exceedingly rare. Like where each person really wants to find the flaws in their own position, to either strengthen it or learn why it can't be.

https://xkcd.com/386/

The number of threads that I’ve just completely abandoned on .ml when I realize I’m trying to reason with morons is too damn high.

Ahh yes the crackpot belief that it is wrong to support a genocide regardless of who is in power.

How else are they supposed to virtue signal?

It was never about winning.

It was always about getting shit off on strangers for self-gratification, and public shaming for reprehensible behaviours/ beliefs.

No, I won't.

Fuck your "reason", people covet their own logical prowess but in reality they didn't come to their views on their own nor their way of seeing things on their own. In fact, it's a weakness borrowed from others, based on flawed methodology and is what got you into the situation you're in now.

I ain't teaching a class, believe me or don't, I dgaf.

99% of people are mostly interested in confirming their own myopic view, to the degree that they will commit violence to ensure it. If someone reaches out a hand, I will grab it, but that's exceedingly rare and it's not my day job to fish randos out of their own ignorance un-asked.

When you tell lemmy users that teachers joking about shooting their students is bad, actually.