Edit: for the record, Fuck AI

Image of a bell curve.

The left side has a dumb man saying "Computers have magic elves inside"

The center has an angry nerd saying "Computers are deterministic logical systems. They give the same outputs for the same inputs"

The right side has a man in a hoodie saying "Computers have magic elves inside"

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[–] 47 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Computers have daemons inside.

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  • [–] 23 points 3 months ago

    Otherwise known as “programmers.”

    Seriously though we tricked metal into thinking with runes and lightning. That is magic.

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  • [–] 17 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    No, but the wifi chips do. Even radio engineers who designed them will tell you they just tamed the elves, they don't really understand how radio engineering works.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago

    Hah, I do radio engineering and no shit wrote this in a project report back in undergrad. "Radio engineering is often as much art as science" and I got five points off for that commentary.

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  • [–] 12 points 3 months ago

    It's called the Machine Spirit.

    Praise the Omnissiah!

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  • [–] 11 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    Computers have voodoo goblins inside them with the personalities of extremely malevolent genies.

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  • [–] 33 points 3 months ago (17 children)

    Normally I laugh at these as they have some merit, but fuck this one. The right end of the curve isn’t some Jedi understanding of things, it’s tech bros that think AI is alive and they want to enslave us.

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  • [–] 16 points 3 months ago (6 children)

    Yes, but also as a programmer, sufficiently complex code bases might as well be magical with all of the interactions between edge cases causing some fucky behavior.

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  • [–] 9 points 3 months ago (5 children)

    Nah man. I’ve been a programmer and it’s very much doing exactly what you told it to. The issue is you (general you) did not do a good job of telling it what to do. It’s like speaking to a five year old realizing the instructions you give it are going to be literally executed, loopholes and all.

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  • [–] 7 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (3 children)

    I've been a profession Dev for 20+ years. I generally agree with you, but I have experienced what appears to be non-deterministic behavior. One room me it was a multi threaded algorithm and would return slightly different results each time. My theory for mult threaded apps is an environment effects each thread differently. What other tasks the user is doing effected the thread execution order and would give different results based on which thread finished.

    While I still think the process is deterministic, but with enough factors it becomes indistinguishable from non-deterministic.

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  • [–] 6 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    I don’t want to be pedantic, as I understand what you’re saying, but they way I interpret that is it’s still deterministic, we just don’t know all of the factors that are currently contributing to the outcome. It’s not magical, it’s just lack of full understanding of all variables.

    I get how it can be thought of as non-deterministic, but I think the reason why that bothers me is I’ve seen it used as slippery slope territory into “see, so god must exist!”. I think I was just triggered more by the eventuality and not your specific statement.

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  • [–] 6 points 3 months ago

    Sometimes we purposefully make computers do nondeterministic things on purpose. Hardware random number generators, for instance.

    But not counting those situations, speedrunners often call some of the "other factors that just absolutely cannot be accounted for" kind of stuff that rethnor is talking about "RNG".

    But even aside from that, there are some even less deterministic cases. Also from speedrunning, there's the famous SM64 upwarp that my have been, but probably wasn't a cosmic ray, but very likely was some kind of hardware failure that wouldn't be accounted for by only considering how the N64 is supposed to work (given processor architecture and such).

    But an example I find even more interesting. There was a Defcon presentation where someone registered domain names that were one bit different from very frequently used domain names, kindof like typosquatting, but these were for domain names that no human was typing. These were domain names that computer programs were hitting, and the domain names weren't derived from user input. But his one-bit-off domain names got a significant amount of traffic. Just from random memory corruptions and such due to some variety of weird hardware failures.

    I'd be skeptical of anyone I know claiming that they'd actually personally encountered something they knew to be truly non-deterministic in hardware that wasn't in some way temporarily or permanently faulty or damaged in some way, but I think it is a thing that can happen in computers. And some of that nondeterminism comes from sources that actually do act at quantum scales were true nondeterminism isn't unlikely to have sway.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago

    Yeah that's a bit aspirational to my taste. Sure a script is just a list of instructions but when you start adding complex data and network hops and async work there are definitely "non-deterministic" behaviors that will emerge. Ultimately yes everything is ones and zeroes and there is probably an explanation but it will be something stupid and contrived.

    As a developer you lay out a plan for what should generally happen but there's no way you can anticipate all the micro variations that happen in production. It's like any kind of real life plan, really.

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  • [–] [S] 8 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    For the record, Fuck AI and tech bros with a rusty pole.

    What I mean is that computers are so complex they end up being very fragile, in a way.

    A few years ago, a friend was having random issues with her PC. Random crashes, garbled data. Long story short, it ended up being a couple of faulty bytes on one of her RAM sticks.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago* (2 children)

    That's a very... unique interpretation honestly. I've never seen anyone associate this meme (including all the "we trapped lightning in a rock and taught it to do taxes" variants) with the fragility of complex tech, only the idea that microprocessors are such a ridiculous technology that anyone reaching expert level is back in the state of wonderment.

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  • [–] [S] 7 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    Yeah. The thing is, the finicky interactions between components, and the obscure bugs that may arise are reminiscent of some moody magical creature living inside, just saying "fuck it, here's a kernel panic" out of nowhere.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    Why the hell would you equate the expert of the field with a tech bro? You don't understand the meme.

    If you want an explanation, current computer system, especially cloud systems, are so complex that even though yes, it's all deterministic, when so many things are depending on each other, including external interference (networking issues, data syncing delays...).

    At some point you start wishing i was actually elves because I don't fucking know why lambda's boto get item got the version of the file half an hour before the last modification, even though the lambda was triggered by the file being updated, Carlos. I don't fucking know, different AWS endpoints might have different sync states maybe and it's not as reliably propagated as they tell us it is, what the fuck do I know about that. I've spent enough time in estigating this bullshit, relaunch it and pray the elves do the thing correctly this time, leave me alone.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago

    Because I am one of the experts. I’m not going to share exactly who I am, but I’ve been in IT for 30+ years. I’ve worked on everything from development, to infrastructure to hardware design for the Open Compute project and at major cloud companies as an architect. So no, it’s all magic elves if you understand what’s going on and I will never equate it with that.

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    [–] 5 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    No, I don't agree.

    Every single problem can be traced to a specific source.

    What a lot of people (especially in IT) determine as a glitch, is just some unexpected change that they don't have the time/energy to deal with and can be solved by just rebooting.

    Every single thing has a cause, even if the problem was a single particle of radiation from space that flipped a bit on a hard drive.

    I've had the pleasure to work with some IT-guru that could solve every problem. They could see where this unexpected change came from and tell how to solve it so it wouldn't ever happen again. Except maybe those bit flips.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago*

    Bitflips are fun.

    For a while, I managed a fleet of about 6500 iPod touch devices, and we would have random failures on devices where a simple re-image would solve the problem. I did a back of the napkin calculation, and our rate of those failures was almost exactly the expected cosmic radiation bitflip chance for the total surface area of all the storage chips in our devices.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago*

    No, not every problem can be traced to a specific cause. Sometimes the information required to do that has been lost (or never existed) and finding the root cause becomes impossible.

    How would you prove some random radiation caused a bit flip to make an app crash without having equipment to detect it set up beforehand?

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    Don't forget about "race conditions"!

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    Reminds me of https://www.catb.org/jargon/html/magic-story.html

    (I can't get that link to work right now. Maybe it's down. So here is the same story on the Wayback Machine.)

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago

    Midwit doesn't know about RDSEED, or RNDRRS . Every modern computer has a hardware random number generator built in (aka true random number generator). Since there's a hwrng bulit in, operations that depend on it aren't deterministic.

    Not a magic elf though. Definitely more goblin.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago

    I thought they had angry pixies inside?

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    I still remember the time a bug was fixed by adding a comment on a previously empty line

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago*

    Computers are fucking weird.

    Back in the dark ages of late 90s/early 00s computing, I figured out that I could reliably crash a computer with a c++ script that printed char 7 (system bell) in a while loop, but if I added a semicolon in the next line the system would be fine.

    It was fun putting the first exe as the shortcut on lab computers, as people would be sooooooo confused when their computer spazzed out and beeped at them at an ever slowing cadence when they tried to open a normal application. Never bothered how to do it on dual core systems, because I couldn't be forked.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago

    Magic elves are deterministic logical systems.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago

    Sometimes the pipelines hicup, but that just means you run it again.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago

    Be sure to leave bags of Kuai Kuai out for the magic elves.

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