Original comment: https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/1uyyywv/comment/oy3cgd7/


Trees vs. Data Centers

Photo 1: Memphis, TN (top)

Photo 2: Sandston, VA

Photo 3: Abilene, Texas

Photo 4: New Albany, OH

Photo 5: Fayetteville, GA

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[–] 92 points 3 months ago (7 children)

Is there a /c/extremelydepressing? This would go perfectly there.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago (4 children)
  • [–] 43 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    I wouldn’t really categorize rampant ecological destruction as something calling for merely mild annoyance

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  • [–] 172 points 3 months ago (13 children)

    Not even solar panels on the roofs.

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  • [–] 111 points 3 months ago (9 children)

    There's all this talk of solar-powered space-based orbital data centers , but they can't be bothered to put up cheaper, simpler, grid-relieving ground-based solar, on the real estate they've already got, when that would start producing some juice like right now? How does this make any sense?

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  • [–] 27 points 3 months ago (4 children)

    Because solar on the roof won't even be noticable against their power footprint. Given current practices, each square foot of a datacenter would need about 1,000 times more square footage worth of solar.

    It's just that somehow if they get to go to space, they decide they suddenly just need like two servers in a 'datacenter' instead of thousands. And they need to go to space because Elon says (checks notes) that it's too hard to make more natural gas turbine parts....

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  • [–] 32 points 3 months ago*

    Because solar on the roof won’t even be noticable against their power footprint. Given current practices, each square foot of a datacenter would need about 1,000 times more square footage worth of solar.

    But (as I'm sure you realize) this would mean every watt from on-premises solar could get put to use immediately, no batteries, no power-grid buy-back schemes. Making those solar panels an unusually good investment.

    Unless they're not planning to keep it running for very long.

    It smells un-serious, somehow.

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  • [–] 23 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    Even if it's nowhere near a majority of the power, I'm surprised passive cooling from solar plus some electricity isn't worthwhile enough to be universal. It's a small impact, but also cheap enough it'll pay for itself, and many orders of magnitude more efficient than trying to get a datacenter into space, and figure out how to cool it

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  • [–] 9 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    Especially since they're looking for space for solar installations, farmers have started installing them, power companies and coops. Seems financially stupid to leave that much space unused when solar farms would go right on top.

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  • [–] 16 points 3 months ago

    As long as they continue to spout pie-in-the-sky for-realsies gonna-be-fantastic totally-not-gonna-fall-apart-like-half-Elon's-schemes plans for the future, they don't have to spend ANY money on stuff like ground-based solar panel arrays, and they get more investors who get suckered by the pitch too!

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago

    Solar panels produce 36.6% more energy in space than on earth at noon with ideal atmospheric conditions (clear sky). As it's not always clear and not always day on earth, so I suspect the difference to be 300-400%, plus storage inconvenience.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago

    Devils advocate, I don’t agree with this, but maybe because first to market and innovating quickly gets more money? The solar panels would be a bigger up front cost (they gotta make sure the building is rated for it, buy a bunch of wires if it’s out in a field, etc) than just paying the city for 6 months-3 years of electricity vs how much the return will be in the timed bubble we have?

    I don't think that’s a good business decision unless you think what you're making isn’t going to last…. But maybe they know the bubble will pop and don’t wanna invest long term? It’s just dumb or evil.

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  • [–] 31 points 3 months ago

    This disgusts me and angers me beyond words

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  • [–] 17 points 3 months ago

    To me, the problem seems to be bad regulators. They could have mandated that data centers have solar panels on their roof. They could have mandated a certain amount of greenery around the warehouse, so that the area was less impactful. It's been a known issue that unregulated Capitalism will cause mass destruction quite frequently for decades if not centuries. You can't expect every business to 'do the right thing' every time...that would be stupidly optimistic of regulators.

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  • [–] 13 points 3 months ago

    Let’s just all die

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  • This in exchange for something that just invented nonsense words and inserted them into my science presentation?

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  • [–] 48 points 3 months ago (5 children)

    It's a bit unfortunate the second xAI is taken in the winter, so we can't really see how much of the trees are gone, but looks like a lot.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (3 children)

    I’m genuinely confused about why the season matters?!

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  • [–] 24 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    I can't tell from this far away, but if those trees are deciduous then they lose their leaves in the cold weather

    So a winter photo might not be as good of a comparison as a summer photo because even if there were exactly as many trees in each photo, the winter one would look like there are fewer.

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  • [–] 11 points 3 months ago

    And still no jobs..

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  • [–] 11 points 3 months ago

    Makes me sad

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  • [–] 19 points 3 months ago

    This is violence against the bulk of humanity

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  • [–] 9 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    Honestly amazing that these tech companies are able to make a building full of computers look like an open strip mine. They don't even try to beautify the campuses or anything, just bare dirt and ponds full of acrid water. I live in taconite country and have seen active mining operations put in more care for the communities they invade then big tech does

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  • [–] -1 points 3 months ago

    I don’t agree with how data centers are being built out, but I also don’t think your assessment is accurate. The New Albany and Fayetteville sites look to preserve most of the existing trees. Abilene and Sandstone appear to be active construction.

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  • [–] 37 points 3 months ago (6 children)

    To be fair. This isn’t an AI issue. Or a data center issue. It’s an everywhere issue. If there is a plot of land, it will be leveled and something will be built. Strip mall. Gas station. Houses. So many houses. It’s never ending. If that piece of land can make money, it will be clear cut and built on.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago (4 children)

    The use of passive voice throughout your comment is almost impressive.

    What do those other buildings provide that data centers don't?

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  • [–] 11 points 3 months ago

    I get what you are saying. I know. But that strip mall is gonna have a parking lot the size Montana. It will contain 2 mattress stores, a noodle place and a denture store. The noodle place will go out of business and shutdown. The other 3 will remain open for the next 12 years by magic or something, cause you never see a single person there. We need housing yes. Affordable housing. The houses that the forest was cleared for will be 500k plus, contractor grade, where you get to choose from 3 designs, and its built off a two lane road that is never improved to handle a 1000 home neighborhood. At least, that is all that is popping up around me.

    Id rather have the forest any day.

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  • [–] 6 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    Not OP, but houses provide housing. Strip malls provide spaces for local businesses. Data center literally provide nothing to the local community they are built in other than stress on existing utilities. It's not like factories of yore where 1k jobs would be created and lives were built around it.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

    Not true. The normal issue is bad. The data center issue so insanely worse, as they are not just taking up a single plot but also much more for their power production. Like, entire forests for biofuel power plants for example. Then there is the water consumption and pollution, on top of all the air pollution. Then there the case of an entire plot of land being used for zero housing, meaning other plots of land need to be converted into housing instead. Data centers solve nothing, they just create loads of issues. Housing solve the housing crisis.

    What you're saying is that a gunshot to the heart is similar to a papercut in your finger.

    My solution would be to create better public transportation and pedestrian / cycling infrastructure so massive parkinglots can be redeveloped into housing. Please note there are no data centers in my proposed solution.

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  • [–] 7 points 3 months ago

    This is not mild. This is infuriating.

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  • [–] 6 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    Are these places extremely patrolled and secure? I'm just surprised people aren't burning them to the ground or disrupting them some way or somehow

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  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago

    Looks like they cleared the area with agent orange 😌

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    OpenAI literally desertified the area?

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  • [–] 9 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    Some day, the people may rise up... And maybe all of these will burn.

    I like to think the employees will do it. Who knows, though...

    I just know it needs to be done.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    This behaviour is exactly why parts of the world are literary on fire right now. It's not just the loss of trees, its the other impacts of these data centers too, such as increased use of fossil fuels.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago

    Sorry shady, I meant trees causing shade

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago

    Nothing mild about this

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  • [–] 21 points 3 months ago* (6 children)
    1. Summer vs winter picture, not a very honest take

    2. It would look the same for any commercial building - a warehouse, shopping center (would be even worse), etc.

    No need to be disingenuous, it just weakens the argument and gives someone who disagrees with you valid ammunition.

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  • [–] 6 points 3 months ago

    I guess the point would be what does the local area get in exchange for losing their forest?

    A lot of other developments at least provide the local populace some service or jobs. These are just "give me your land, your power, and water and we will use it to advance our business interests and do nothing for the locals", oh and btw, give us a tax break for the privilege of having us build a datacenter in your area.

    Now I'm being bombarded by ads saying 'um, actually datacenters give you tons of permanent jobs and makes power cheaper', so they are just flat out lying instead of actually doing anything to make it worth the local community. Well, except key people on local town councils who somehow end up with NDAs forbidding them from disclosing what conversations they are having with these developers...

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (2 children)

    Housing developments and apartment blocks are built on former forests in a similar timeframe too

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    At least here in the US the people arguing against data centers are also against housing developments and want to reduce urban sprawl (by say tearing down all the empty malls and building apartments there for example). At least that's what it seems like to me, someone against the never ending suburbia.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago

    I don't like AI data centres, but try to get photos of the same month/season to make this point.

    Not all development that removes trees are created equally, just saying. If it's a new interstate power transmission line, solar or wind farm, new non-market housing, passenger rail line, it would be better than a data centre, ICE concentration camp, oil pipeline, intensive agriculture, etc. The end use matters more to weigh against, than saying clearing trees is never worth it as a blanket statement. If it is worth developing, officials have to weigh the importance the forest as a natural habitat compared to natural bogs, lakes and meadows as alternatives, to maintain biome diversity.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    That's because it's propaganda. The person who created the image has a particular point of view and has manipulated what they choose to present to push that view forward.

    Whether that view is correct or not is irrelevant to the fact that this is manipulative.

    Post more images of things being built! Thanks for having beautiful summer days as the before, and fugly winter as the after to make the difference that much starker, the point of view we're intended to have after viewing this almost wasn't clear enough

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago

    Why are the trees red in the first picture?
    Is it just the season (summer vs fall) or another reason?

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago

    Obvviously.
    What's the thing?

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago

    Download anew America Sahara Desert…

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago

    Mildly interesting? I'd say mildly infuriating. But you can skip the mildly.

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  • [–] -2 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    Not to be that guy but you can easily find something a thousand times worse with suburbia than some measly data centers.

    Those things eat up land at a much larger scale than anything else aside from farming or logging.

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  • [+] -7 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    Using the data centers when you posted this, classic sign of these times

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  • [–] 7 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    You're joking right? These are AI data centers and such. They aren't hosting general public cloud servers.

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  • [–] 0 points 3 months ago

    Your posts go to ai, no? Ai is scraping this site/app. Anything you post on here... Ai is taking too some degree. Directly or not you are helping Ai. It was mostly in jest but wow you all went hard with downvotes which I guess you deep down assume means something real. The new age of online discussion forums is wild.

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  • [+] -7 points 3 months ago (11 children)
  • [–] 11 points 3 months ago* (3 children)

    Yeah I'm gonna defend this

    lmao what a clown. There's plenty of abandoned stores in every city and empty lots. You don't have to go tear up mother nature when we don't even use the land we already have.

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  • [–] 10 points 3 months ago (5 children)

    Things need space to be built, but all of those other things you mentioned have value. It's upsetting to cut down a shitload of trees for something that is going to be useless in 3 years when the AI bubble pops.

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  • [+] -4 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (4 children)
  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    People still have houses and mortgages after the mortgage bubble burst in 2007.

    The internet, ecommerce, and .com's still exist after the dot com bubble burst in the early 2000s.

    A bubble bursting doesn't mean that thing dies and goes away. It means that the hype for it goes away and the market normalizes/corrects suddenly.

    There's a VC run and an attempt to force AI usage into things where it doesn't belong, or serves no purposes, or completely alienates the user base. There is going to be a correction for sure, and its not going to be pretty.

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  • [+] 1 point 3 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago*

    Solar panel farms actually work really well with rewilding projects. Not forests sure but if instead of where we grow fuel corn we instead dropped solar and rewild them for more power than the corn can provide plus biodiversity.

    And as others said there's plenty of empty spaces already existing that most of what you list can use. There's two malls near me with half the shops or more empty, an abandoned hotel (though it was recently announced it would be converted into apartments so, ya know, proving my point) and a field bought by a hospital just being left as bare dirt (because they say they might need it some day).

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  • [–] -4 points 3 months ago

    You took this from Reddit’s r/interestingasfuck and posted it to c/mildlyinteresting? Clearly neither is a good fit because this isn’t interesting at all.

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  • 6 comments in c/actually_infuriating@lemmy.world view that post
    [–] 7 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    Who will be first to act: Jesus or The Ents?

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  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago*

    At least cloud compute will be cheap when everyone realises LLMs are pretty garbage

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  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago

    Looks like every aerial of any large scale development

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago

    I think the actually infuriating thing here is that subs like r/interestingasfuck were made because r/mildlyinteresting basically turned into “look at this thing I saw” without any critical evaluation. Those subs soon fell prey to the same shit. Unsurprisingly, it’s now infected the Lemmy communities too. “I saw this thing once” isn’t fucking mildly interesting. It’s fucking annoying.

    In this instance I genuinely do not understand how photos of massive construction make anyone go “huh, that’s kinda interesting but not super interesting what a novelty.” If I’m super fucking gracious and OP has never ever seen satellite photos before or even considered the concept that could be slightly novel but that’s a fucking stretch.

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  • [–] -1 points 3 months ago

    As I said in the other post, don't be disingenuous with the summer/winter photos.

    Also any commercial construction would look like this - warehouse, UPS shipping center, shopping center. Hell, a shopping center would be far worse.

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