-1
humans are obligate carnivores (hackertalks.com)
submitted 1 day ago by to c/carnivore@discuss.online
30 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

I know, I KNOW, we are omnivores (you, me, maybe not our llm friends, but most of us)... but that doesn't quite line up with biological necessity.

I would argue we are facultative omnivores, but obligate carnivores. We can eat plants for efficiency (famines and whatnot), but they are not necessary for life. Meat, however, is necessary - at the very least we would have b vitamin deficiencies without meat, and babies wouldn't develop into healthy humans without it.

People will argue, and i love you all for it, that maybe this applies historically but in the modern food environment we can engineer our way out of this obligation - sure, that's true, but when speaking of our species appropriate and native diet - we would still be obligate carnivores

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [S] 1 point 1 day ago (7 children)

Our ancestors started as herbivores, being tree dwellers, and only later changed into the role of scavenger and after that predator, making the consumption of other animals a viable and reliable food source.

Frugivores, but yes... in the intervening couple million years we lost the ability to survive without meat, we adapted to our new food environment. Humans are clearly not frugivores anymore.

The species evolved into the role of the omnivore, capable of eating nearly anything to survive, and it proved to be a winning strategy.

My point is we still need some meat to survive, we are obligated... so we are baseline obligate carnivores, and then opportunistic on other food sources. We can't eat nearly anything, grass for instance - happily there are animals that can eat grass, which we can eat.

If the concern is the apport of B12, eggs are a source for it and it would be an easy enough one for early humans to get it.

Eating eggs would be carnivorous behavior, no?

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 7 child comments
    •
  • [–] 3 points 22 hours ago (6 children)

    There are more non-fruit bearing than there are fruit bearing trees. It's a safe assumption to consider early ancestors, prior to becoming land dwellers, had the largest portion of their diet based from leaves.

    That's a keen observation. Prior to shifting from herbivores to scavengers, the apport of B12 would probably be obtained from specialized intestinal biome. Since evolution always comes with trade-offs, that was a loss in the long term.

    I refuse the insistence with humans being obligate carnivores. Prior to becoming active predators, humans widened and improved their diet by including what they could scavenge from the landscape, including meat sourced from dead animals or abandoned predator kills. That is actively developing and evolving into omnivorous capabilty.

    Eggs are not meat. Eggs are an animal product, granted, but it's not from its consumption we derive the notion of being carnivore.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 6 child comments
    •
  • [–] [S] 2 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 20 hours ago) (5 children)

    It’s a safe assumption to consider early ancestors, prior to becoming land dwellers, had the largest portion of their diet based from leaves.

    That is quite the assumption, modern frugivore apes only eat leaves when fruit is scarce

    I refuse the insistence with humans being obligate carnivores

    Fair enough, i'm open to better terminology. Must eat some meat needs a term that isn't overloaded.

    Eggs are not meat. Eggs are an animal product, granted, but it’s not from its consumption we derive the notion of being carnivore.

    Eggs are not carnivorous food?

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 5 child comments
    •
  • [–] 2 points 18 hours ago (4 children)

    That is quite the assumption, modern frugivore apes only eat leaves when fruit is scarce.

    I had to go read up a bit on the ancestors of the apes and I admit I have to agree on that. But given today's extant species of apes have diverse diets in between them, with gorillas being considered mostly herbivore, the same can be at least considered for ancestor species.

    Fair enough, i'm open to better terminology. Must eat some meat needs a term that isn't overloaded.

    I agree but I'm not the one to offer such word. Unless, as a species, we were able to develop some sort of intrinsic mechanism to obtain the vital B12, we are bound by our biology to source it out. But even in our shortcoming, we have a smart mechanism: we can store the vitamin in our liver. In my understanding, that hints at a time where the molecule was a very scarce resource.

    Eggs are not carnivorous food?

    It a contentious point of view, but nothing has to die in order for me to subsist when eating eggs. In a more wild setting this is much more debateable, I'll concede.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
    •
  • [–] [S] 2 points 18 hours ago (3 children)

    with gorillas being considered mostly herbivore, the same can be at least considered for ancestor species.

    Modern apes are still frugivores, about 20% of their diet comes from fermenting leaves, but its not a significant percentage.

    It a contentious point of view, but nothing has to die in order for me to subsist when eating eggs.

    I see your moral stance, but in biology carnivore is a term of art describing the source of dietary inputs it has no moral component. Humans are mono-gastrics, but not a hind-gut fermenter, the bulk of our nutrition by our but biology is going to be meat or fruit, and we can't live on fruit alone.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
    •
  • [–] 2 points 17 hours ago (2 children)

    Modern apes are still frugivores, about 20% of their diet comes from fermenting leaves, but its not a significant percentage.

    I specifically mentioned gorillas as the species is classified as predominantly herbivore, with fruits making up a very small percentage of their diet.

    If an extant species has this specific diet, it is at least plausible to conceive that ancestor species had it as well.

    Humans are mono-gastrics, but not a hind-gut fermenter, the bulk of our nutrition by our but biology is going to be meat or fruit, and we can't live on fruit alone.

    That would be the case if the species was intaking food raw, which is not the case. Cooking of food facilitates the access to nutrients in it, both for vegetable and animal source.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] [S] 1 point 17 hours ago (1 child)

    I specifically mentioned gorillas as the species is classified as predominantly herbivore, with fruits making up a very small percentage of their diet.

    Fair point, i hadn't realized.

    That would be the case if the species was intaking food raw, which is not the case. Cooking of food facilitates the access to nutrients in it, both for vegetable and animal source.

    Cooking seems to be orthogonal to the discussion of species classification. People are feeding cats synthetic plant based diets now, but we still classify cats as obligate carnivores based on their natural diet in their natural environment.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
    •
  • [–] 2 points 15 hours ago

    Cooking seems to be orthogonal to the discussion of species classification.

    I agree with your point but it is moot for current day. To a degree, there is a case to be made about reviewing how we classify humans as a species. Human beings have long exceeded the biological limitations imposed by evolution.

    People are feeding cats synthetic plant based diets now, but we still classify cats as obligate carnivores based on their natural diet in their natural environment.

    That is surprising by a good number of reasons. Thankfully, we've learned how to synthesize taurine but regardless I can't fathom how the critters can absorb protein and other nutrients from plant matter.

    Hurray for science, I say.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent