Today has been especially bad, and was inspired sadly by about 6 straight posts of only negativity here.

I want to say that being negative towards something is not a bad thing, it's very valid to critique things. However, a community becomes toxic when the majority of it's content is negative.

Gaming is an obvious one. It's very obvious all around the internet that gaming communities are negative generally, and Lemmy certainly takes the cake. In the case of GTA 6 coming out this month we can (and have) had multiple stories about Rockstar's unethical practices, the pricing, ownership, and to be clear I agree with all of it. However, there is also valid positive things that people want to discuss but are immediately downvoted to hell, or have comments brigaded on with responses like "Don't you know about X, Y, or Z??"

I've been in comment threads where people have told me that they are afraid to post here because of the responses they might get. Now this is absolutely true everywhere, and we will often respond "You just have to tune them out" but the scales are shifting to the majority of responses are negative.

New users will not simply block/tune out the majority of commenters. New users will see that a community is toxic and turn around and go back to where they felt it was better.

This is the root of my frustration - that Lemmy is no longer a geeky place where people can talk about Star Trek and Linux - but that it's becoming a toxic place where if you aren't talking about why Star Trek and Linux are the only good things on the planet that it should be called out over and over.

Worse is that the scales a tipping to simply being "If it is popular, it is not good" which is a huge red flag for toxic community. To be clear it does not mean that if something is popular that it must be good, but instead we are falling for the same trap that is on corporate social media.

Anger and toxicity are fun, they are dopamine hits. So when there's a huge post about <> and everyone dogpiles, everyone has that dopamine hit and it spreads, and it makes people want to dogpile more. Unfortunately I think this has left individual posts, and this is now driving a large part of our comment sections, that people feel included when they are all dogpiling on a popular thing. It's addictive.

It's incessant and exhausting being here some days.

Some examples to think on:

  • Harry Potter fans (who have already said they will not buy anything from Rowling again and are aware) who still want to enjoy the books/movies they already own, but are shouted down and downvoted
  • Sports fans posting about football, to have jokes about "sportsball" made to them.
    • (Is that really any different from nerds being made fun of by jocks in highschool, only this is in reverse and worse yet, we're supposedly more mature now?)
  • Freaking pumpkin spice. The world is on fire and people get a tiny bit of joy out of cinnamon and allspice, can we let them just enjoy that?!

I think that sums it all up, I wish people could just enjoy things here without having the majority of comments be about why they shouldn't enjoy it. I think this attitude has already lost of a good chunk of users who could be adding to the fediverse, instead now back on corporate social media.

It's anecdotal but I've shown the fediverse to 3 other people who are trekkie nerds like me. They gave up in less than a week not because the fediverse was complicated, but because they felt like they weren't wanted here.

Be the positive change, be encouraging. Don't belittle for someone for liking a popular thing if you like something more obscure, instead post about obscure thing and why you like it and share it! Inform users of things like Rowlings insane shit-headery, but don't demean them for still enjoying the books. If you don't like sports that's cool, but let them cheer on their team.

Thanks for listening. I'm going to have a pumpkin spice latte now.

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[–] 39 points 22 hours ago (13 children)

This is actually a major reason why I don’t engage with too many communities. I know downvotes don’t really mean anything on Lemmy, but still, some people get really vicious and start throwing all kinds of shit at you and get personal just because you said an opinion they disagree with. Reddit has ruined the internet.

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  • [–] 7 points 21 hours ago (1 child)

    I'm probably one of the few lemmings who's also still on reddit regularly. In both places, I view by "Subscribed" and I have a thoroughly curated list of subs/communities. My list on Reddit is down to sports, local interest, and niche hobbies only, as those have simply not been been replicated at scale, and I'm still pretty sure I'm mostly reading real humans' comments.

    For memes, media, news, random chitchat, and shitposting, the threadiverse is much better, but there are still places I am very happy to avoid, and I'll gladly accept that I'm probably missing out on some decent conversations.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 hours ago

    I left Reddit a long time ago. I was only subbed to Linux, KDE, cachyOS and my country’s sub. The rest didn’t even feel like you were actually talking to humans at all. That place sucked. This place is heading that way, too, if we don’t catch it early. I really came here hoping to the vibe of early 2000’s vibe, but nope. None of it.

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  • [–] -3 points 21 hours ago (6 children)

    I wish more sites disabled downvoting. It's really more of a dark pattern than anything else, and a relic from a super-sized, for-profit website that wanted to crowd source moderation. In my 30 years online, stronger, direct moderation has beat out crowd-sourced tyranny of the majority basically every time.

    We need more active, hands-on moderators, I think. You don't get a beautiful garden by sitting back and letting the weeds grow.

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  • [–] 14 points 21 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago) (2 children)

    I disagree fundamentally but it kind of feels like a waste to write this all out just to say that.

    I wish there was a compact way I could express that I think your line of thinking is authoritarian and wrong.

    You don’t get a beautiful garden by sitting back and letting the weeds grow.

    What I don't like about people who are so negative about the fediverse like this is that you seem to WANT a perfect clean garden that photographs well rather than a messy meadow of wildflowers, long grass and lots of diversity along with predominant modes of difficult emotions that understandably manifest during difficult periods of world history...

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  • [+] -12 points 21 hours ago (1 child)

    Authoritarian, and functional. Crowd sourcing moderation, on the other hand, is tyrannical and toxic.

    The Nazi-bar analogy applies to other toxic groups, too. They're welcome to spin up their own sites if they want to be gatekeeping spoilers.

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  • [–] 13 points 21 hours ago

    Authoritarian, and functional. Crowd sourcing moderation, on the other hand, is tyrannical and toxic.

    You are asserting these things as axioms, that does not make them true.

    The burden is on you to prove this causation, and anecdotes don't count.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 hours ago

    I think only having up/down vote is kind of stupid. One downvote isn't drowned in 5 upvotes.

    I don't know if a whole slew of emotes would be better, but especially my downvotes are sometimes wildly different (I don't think you are correct, to ; fucking fascist pig).

    I'd also like to know if the only answer I got is also the person granting me a vote. It sort of changes what they say (I know you can see it if you're a mod).

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