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Petition Calling for House Speaker Other Than Hakeem Jeffries Hits 1 Million Signatures | Common Dreams (www.commondreams.org)
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[–] [S] 1 point 2 hours ago (7 children)

If it's in response to the capitalist class overstepping the boundaries of legality, then it's not revolution. It's counter-revolution. Which is precisely what I stated is the one contingency in which it would be justified.

If they could implement martial law any time they want, they would have already done so. They've even tried and it's been shut down, because the system is still working in some ways, even while it fails in others.

The only thing it will take to put control in the hands of the working class is for the progressive caucus to overcome the establishment Dems, place progressives in the congressional leadership positions, and for the people to elect a progressive president. Then they only need to deliver.

We're working on those things, and we're closer than we've ever been before. In two years, we may just do it. But rhetoric like yours is only throwing stumbling blocks in our way.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago) (6 children)

    The capitalist class is already in control. A counterrevolution in the US would be the slaveocracy taking power once again, or a socialist replacement for the US being retaken by capitalists.

    The reason the capitalist class doesn't implement martial law is because it breeds resentment and resistence towards the system. The electoral system is a revolutionary pressure valve, the capitalist class uses it to give workers the illusion of democracy without actually being beholden to the working class. The bourgeois democratic shell is the most stable defense of capitalism that presently exists, fascism is a system for emergencies when this no longer works in favor of capitalism. The fascist button is in the hands of capitalists, not the state.

    If the entire state is controlled by a progressive party, that does not translate to working class control. The capitalist class controls the commanding heights of the economy, and therefore the state is subservient to the capitalist class. This is my central point. Why do you believe Allende was couped? The long line of reformist progressives getting nakedly overthrown by their domestic capitalist class because they have not actually confronted the ownership of capital in their economy isn't a series of flukes, but the rule.

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 2 hours ago (5 children)

    So when maga fascists call for open revolution at the behest of the capitalist class, what do you call the leftwing resistance if not counter-revolution?

    It sounds like you've had your nose so buried in textbooks for so long that you can't read the current situation, because you're projecting what you've learned about prior situations in different times and different places. That's a failure to discern. An overgeneralization.

    the state is subservient to the capitalist class.

    If we want to make the capitalist class subservient to the state, we need to elect a progressive government. That is the only way out of this mess.

    Your dreams of armed conflict are a dead end. I'm not following you down that path, and if I have to spend my time persuading as many people as I can to also not follow you, then that's just what I'll have to do.

    I'd much rather spend my time and energy fighting fascism. So all you're doing is drawing fire away from our mutual enemy. Are you proud of yourself?

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  • [–] 1 point 2 hours ago (4 children)

    The capitalist class is already in control. The MAGA wing of the capitalist class couping the Democrat wing of the capitalist class isn't a revolution, but a coup. A revolution implies a transformation in the class that dictates society, not any change in leadership.

    It sounds like you’ve had your nose so buried in textbooks for so long that you can’t read the current situation, because you’re projecting what you’ve learned about prior situations in different times and different places.

    I'd say you're guilty of the reverse. You have not learned from history, and because of that you cannot see how the problems of today are connected. Of course there are differences, but you have not demonstrated why these differences add up to an entirely new situation divorced from history. For example, why do you believe Allende was couped? You have not answered this, but it's core to the following point:

    If we want to make the capitalist class subservient to the state, we need to elect a progressive government. That is the only way out of this mess.

    You have not grasped the situation at all. Capitalists are not subservient to the state, the state is subservient to capitalists. This is not because the individuals in the state are personally handpicked by the capitalist class, but instead because whoever controls the commanding heights of the economy controls the state. A progressive government has no means by which to appropriate the commanding heights of the economy, this requires worker revolution.

    You can try to convince people otherwise, but when they have similar questions to those I have asked you, and you cannot respond except by restating your hypothesis in different ways, then they will abandon your frame of view and seek those who can answer their questions. That's why Marxism-Leninism is seeing a resurgence around the world.

    And yes, I am proud of myself for putting my time and money into studying socialism and organizing and educating the working class. Why wouldn't I be? All you're doing is disarming the working class and making us prey to the fascists with no ability to resist when they inevitably use their control of the commanding heights to overturn any progressive government antidemocratically.

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 2 hours ago (3 children)

    You have not learned from history, and because of that you cannot see how the problems of today are connected.

    It's funny how wrong you are about that, but I'm not here to get into an intellectual dick-measuring contest with you.

    It doesn't matter why I think Allende was couped. Because this isn't Allende.

    A progressive government has no means by which to appropriate the commanding heights of the economy,

    We'll see about that.

    then they will abandon your frame of view and seek those who can answer their questions.

    To anyone who prefers Cowbee's way, go ahead and follow Cowbee. I won't try to stop you.

    To everyone else, we have work to do. And we don't have much time left to waste getting tripped up in these thorny vines. We have a path to walk.

    To anyone caught in the middle, the ravine is only going to keep widening. So if you can't choose a path, then I hope you're flexible enough to do a split without getting yourself injured.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 hour ago (2 children)

    It’s funny how wrong you are about that, but I’m not here to get into an intellectual dick-measuring contest with you.

    It doesn’t matter why I think Allende was couped. Because this isn’t Allende.

    And this is exactly why you have not learned from history. Do you think that you have a solid chance of surviving jumping off Hoover Dam without a parachute, just because today is not the same as the times when people did before? As I said, of course this isn't the exact same, but this necessarily requires proof that today is fundamentally different enough to no longer apply. We call this the difference between the generality and the particularity of a thing. Every thing has both general characteristics and particular ones, and you have not proven that the particular characteristics have changed to where the general no longer apply.

    You're stating that the US state is fundamentally unique among all states in history, not merely a particular state but one that has practically nothing in common that we can look to for analysis. That's hardly a justified view, which is why I have asked either for your analysis on Allende, or your proof that the US is significantly different enough to throw that out. You provided neither, and just restated your hypothesis.

    Contrary to what you say, the path is absolutely clear for revolution: organize the working class, and raise the level of political development of the working class. We cannot stumble blindly ahead on vibes, as you insist, but instead must take a scientific study of history, and apply analysis to our conditions today, rather than a stance of historical nihilism.

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 19 minutes ago (1 child)

    What you're asking for is non-falsifiable. You want me to prove to you that the future can be different from the past? That's ridiculous.

    In fact, if we're learning from history, what we should be able to see clearly is that the past isn't always indicative of the future. Because change and progress have been happening all along the way.

    You ask if there's a chance of surviving a jump off the hoover dam? I'd say sure, if the right conditions are in place for it. Base jumpers exist. Politics are more complex than a squirrel suit, but the same rule applies. All is dependent upon conditions of time and place. Which means this: context matters.

    I never claimed that the US is fundamentally unique. That's a strawman. I claimed that the future always has the potential to be different from the past. So be serious, or I'm done engaging with you.

    You claim progressive politics don't have the time or the resources or the backing to make the necessary changes? Well guess what. That applies tenfold to your proposed means.

    So it's kinda strange how you say the oligarchs are too strong and too entrenched and progressives could never defeat them. And then you go and claim we need to take actions that have even lower feasibility.

    But you accuse me of going on vibes, and you call what you do "science"? Be real.

    You have tunnel vision, and you ridicule me for being too perceptive of the particularities of the moment. You're the one stumbling blindly through darkness.

    Maybe if you pull the magnifying glass away from your eye, you'll be able to see your surroundings better.

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  • [–] 1 point 10 minutes ago*

    We both agree that there is no such thing as a static, unfixed, unmoving "thing." Conditions are always changing. However, you seem to use this more as an excuse to believe anything is possible, a rejection of analysis rather than an affirmation of it. You have reductive reasoning.

    Progressive candidates can absolutely beat liberal ones, sure. I never denied this. Where we disagree is the idea that they can translate this electorally defined power into hard power over the economy, the basis of society, in a way that goes against the very foundations of property relations within society without armed struggle and therefore revolution.

    Can you logically prove this? Why do you think this will be the first time in history a ruling class has ever peacefully relinquished control they hold, control that lies outside of the realm of electoral politics? The question isn't whether conditions are different, they absolutely are. The question is whether or not the parts that are the same do or do not influence what we have to work with today.

    You operate off of the assumption that the state exists outside of the control of the base of society, the economy. You also say that revolution has "lower feasibility" than changing the mode of production through electoralism, but revolution has done so many times while reformism has never once. Where do you base your confidence?

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