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[–] 26 points 4 days ago (5 children)

The workers didn't really own the means of production so far but they often had strongly improved lives during socialism. Look at the healthcare system of cuba or the rapid improvement of living conditions in the ussr after lenin took over.

A lot of the concepts capitalism is based on are deeply flawed which is why a weakened version of it will still lead to some of the same problems.

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  • [–] 11 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (2 children)

    I hate to be that guy, but without workers owning the means of production there is no socialism period. There may be socialist policies, but that is something completely different.

    Capitalism is only somewhat efficient at distributing wages during the small market phase. The problem is of course no one has been able to reel in selfishness or corruption under any current system whether it is communism or capitalism (socialism on a large scale has never existed). And just to be clear, governments identifying as socialist do not fucking count without workers owning the means of production.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 days ago (1 child)

    Dismissing past socialist projects is not very helpful to actually achieving socialism/commumism. Even though they weren't always ideologically clean they still had a lot of aspects of a socialist economy.

    Socialism can also be laid out it different strategies making the definition not always be completely accurate. Cuba and the USSR were big steps in the development of socialism and its theory.

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  • [–] -4 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

    When has any country obtained the simple ideals of socialism.

    Socialism and its wanna-be special ed cousin communism are DOA at this point to me and I would wager most other people as well. I fully believe they can be reborne into a new system and philosophy for our more modern era learning from the mistakes of the past and I look forward to this.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 days ago (1 child)

    Look at the healthcare system of cuba

    Yeah but at the same time LGBTQ were prosecuted, so it's healthcare is not for everyone.

    or the rapid improvement of living conditions in the ussr after lenin took over.

    Yet the system wasn't protected against someone like Stalin. And also under Lenin things were grim for many.

    Again, the idea of communism is great, it just doesn't work in the form we've seen. So far the best form is (and I hate to say this) China I think, with a partially open market and the average lives improved significantly. But also China has a one party system with one leader with too much power who can stay in office as long as he wants, also known as a dictator. Next to that they have workers with 7 day work weeks and no holidays, concentration camps and an insane amount of corruption.

    Coming back to Cuba, they are also not doing great.

    Maybe Cambodia is an example of a functioning communist state, although the wealth gap there is also insane and they had a dictator not too long ago (Pol Pot) with a pretty severe genocide. And with the recent whistle blowers on Chinese scam centers in Cambodia and Myanmar (which got it's slave workers through Cambodia), also a vast network of corruption came to light reaching as far up as ministers. And also Cambodia isn't a proper communist state, even though they do identify as communist.

    I wish there was a new version of communism in which there are protective measures against tyrant leaders and corruption.

    After the fall of the USSR most states who became Independant kept the system of the USSR. They continued with corruption and a non-functioning system (as the vast network of the USSR wasn't there anymore). Estonia did not. They completely rewrote their entire system, switched to digital and became the world leader in cyber security and low running costs while having a properly functioning system. Maybe we could make a state built on that, but then out of communism?

    But I prefer no states at all and anarchism.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

    The marxist form of communism abolishes states as well, but the workers have to take over the means of production first before they actually have power over the owning class.

    Cuba had a very hard time due to the US sanctions and the CIA. But they showed that it was possible to be communist without losing quality of life.

    East Germany for example had great LGBTQ rights much earlier than most surrounding countries. Probably because they had a much easier situation than cuba.

    China is just capitalistic in their doing. You can see that from the way housing is managed there and how they sacrifice quality of life for the good of the owning class.

    No states is also the final goal of marxism, it just describes a way to get there. We have seen that striking is very effective if done properly, so it makes sense to connect the power of the ruling class to their ability to control the workers.

    What we need to learn from existing socialist/communist nations is how they achieved the revolution and what went well. We should also learn what causes undesirable outcomes and how we can prevent them from happening.

    There really isn't a need for a new form of communism if marxism already exists and matches a lot of the things you are asking for.

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