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Opinions on hunting? (lemmy.world)
submitted 3 days ago by to c/asklemmy@lemmy.world
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I'm interested in hearing what Lemmings think about hunting. I started hunting deer years ago because I wanted to be a part of the process, like if I couldn't handle killing and gutting an animal I shouldn't be eating meat. IMO, it's much more humane than what factory farmed animals endure. Less suffering overall than most natural deaths. Overpopulation causes disease and starvation and we killed off their predators, so we kind of owe it to nature to fill the ecological gap.

Also, I fucking love it. I watch the sun rise, think, record birds I've seen, think, watch squirrels play, think a bit more, and sometimes, I get some food.

Idk. I'm not looking for approval or trying to change your mind, just wondering what people think.

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[–] -1 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (8 children)

What I find interesting is the reasons you listed for why you love it basically describes camping, not hunting.

I would not call it more humane (it's murder), but I do agree it is less worse than factory farming.

That being said, as a vegan I still do not have an answer to how to deal with population control for ecosystems we've destroyed. I do think rebalancing the ecosystem with natural predators should be done, but I do recognize that prey animals suffer more being killed by a predator animal than a hunter. But that is an unfortunate result of evolution, animals that must kill to survive. Humans are not one of those animals though.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 days ago (4 children)

    What I discovered when a friend took me fishing is that having an activity to do while outdoors is a lot more fun than just hanging around looking at the scenery. And fishing is great because most of the time there isn't anything happening, so you can enjoy the scenery while still have something to " do".

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  • [–] 1 point 3 days ago (3 children)

    I get that. It's also a long tradition that has been part if culture. But that is a lot less nice for the fish, even if you trhow it back.

    You could as easily have been learning to skip rocks, or whittling, or many other activities that don't involve hurting or killing animals.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (2 children)

    Agree... though I think similar activities to fishing would be more like rock hounding or mushroom hunting--things that keep you focused on your environment instead of what you're holding in your hands (like whittling).

    Also skipping rocks is really hard on my shoulders these days.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

    animals suffer more being killed by a predator animal than a hunter. But that is an unfortunate result of evolution, animals that must kill to survive. Humans are not one of those animals though.

    How are humans not animals that evolved in a way that we must kill animals? For the vast majority of human history we did. Relatively recently only we didn't (~12000y ago), though we still hunted after agriculture, and raised animals to eat, so it's debatably maybe the last maybe few hundred years only, or maybe as late as ~100 years with global commerce.

    Sure, we maybe don't have to now, but we did evolve needing to. Us not needing to isn't evolutionarily created, but an artifact of modern trade and industry. It hasn't been long enough to really affect our evolution.

    Also, as much as I'm against factory farms, I don't know if we're even at a point where we could farm zero animals. Stuff produced by animals is still required for many things. We should work to reduce it, but I don't think we can be at zero yet most likely.

    Edit: I have a somewhat unrelated question that I've been curious about from a vegan's perspective. How do you feel about eating oysters? They can't feel pain or anything, so in my opinion they're one of the most ethical sources of protein. They are technically an animal though. I don't know if you've ever thought about this, but I've been thinking about it a lot. In my mind they're essentially a plant that's made out of meat. In fact it may be more ethical in many ways than some plants that consume a lot of resources.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 child)

    I am not naive to think that we can end factory farming tomorrow. Like you said, it's something that will happen gradually (but not too slow I hope). I am not aware of any animal product for which there aren't already alternatives. Do you have examples?

    As for the bivalve discussion, while they do not have brains, the do have a very limited nervous system that can react. For example, oysters close up in the presence of predators like crabs. I think it is an individual decision of where to draw the line in this circumstance. I do not eat bivalves.

    As for the sustainability aspect, I do not think they would be more sustainable than plant based alternatives like soy and lentils, especially given the existing infrastructure. To harvest bivalves in the quantities needed if you removed all other animal for sources would likely be devastating for the ecosystem. Meanwhile, 83% of agricultural land use goes to animal feed. Yet animals account only for 37% of consumed protein and 18% of consumed calories. That means that if we convert all the land usage dedicated for animal feed to human crops, we would have more than plenty for all humanity without even using all the currently used land.

    Source for the above percentages. Direct pdf link to the paper above.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 days ago

    Yeah, I'm not saying they'll replace meat consumption. It's just a question of how do you think it's viewed by vegans. However, about sustainability, the cool thing about oysters is it doesn't really take input. They filter the water and grow, then we consume them. The economy of consuming oysters has actually helped fund restoration efforts to increase oyster populations in a lot of places, so they have a positive feedback on sustainability right now at least.

    Yeah, if we were to try to replace all protein with them it probably would be negative, but I think, right now, they're an amazing source for ethical and sustainable protein. If you're not fine with eating them that's cool, but I think more people should and it'd have positive benefits ecologically and ethically.

    I am not aware of any animal product for which there aren't already alternatives. Do you have examples

    I know animals are often used for medical applications. Not just testing, but for growing things. I think insulin used to be produced in some animal, but I think that's switched mostly, if not entirely, to yeast. I have no idea if there's anything industrially that can't be replaced, but I know animal products are used in many applications. I would be surprised if there's not at least one that has no alternative yet, but I don't have the knowledge to say.

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