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Valve "played capitalism so well they broke it" and now Steam can never be replaced, former Epic dev says: "I don't think this is fixable" (www.gamesradar.com)
submitted 6 days ago by to c/pcgaming@lemmy.ca
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[–] 4 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (23 children)

The volume of Valve glazing I see on the internet has me worried. They could enshittify dramatically tomorrow, and I think they would still have positive sentiment.

People trust them. Trusting a corporation is a recipe for monopoly, pretty much without exception, historically.

And Steam is the only storefront for so, so many games. For all of Sweeny’s toxicity, I honestly didn’t feel that particular outrage against EGS, as I was already concerned by how many games are Steam-only.

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  • [–] 5 points 5 days ago (2 children)

    We know they will, but it's probably not today.

    Gabe will die, directives will change, Valve will slip. But probably not today.

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  • [–] 4 points 5 days ago

    They have positive sentiment because they haven't enshittified much, in an industry that has embraced shit maximalism as a policy.

    People would complain if they got worse. There would be people saying "at least they arent microsoft", but they would still be held to higher standards than other companies. The fact they are more or less meeting those standards is impressive.

    Also, steam integration is pretty un-invasive on the developer's side. If steam went tits-up, everybody would just re-release elsewhere.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 days ago (17 children)

    They could enshittify dramatically tomorrow, and I think they would still have positive sentiment.

    Baseless assumption on your part. Nobody is blindly trusting Valve and excusing their faults.

    And Steam is the only storefront for so, so many games. For all of Sweeny’s toxicity, I honestly didn’t feel that particular outrage against EGS, as I was already concerned by how many games are Steam-only.

    Steam doesn't force retail exclusivity. That's on publishers for not putting it on other storefronts, but also most games can be found for sale on other stores.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 days ago (1 child)

    Steam doesn’t force retail exclusivity. That’s on publishers for not putting it on other storefronts, but also most games can be found for sale on other stores.

    Technically not true, the reason Steam was so hated in the beginning was that even if you bought HL2 from a physical store, you STILL had to activate it on Steam to play it.

    They just don't do exclusives now because there's no reason to anymore.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 days ago* (3 children)

    Not for the games I play. My order of operations for buying most games is:

    #1: GoG, so it’s DRM free

    #2: The lowest fee storefront to support the dev (so 1st party store, or maybe EGS).

    #3: Steam, the default. This is prioritized if it’s a Workshop-exclusive game or something.

    #4: Some junky storefront like Xbox

    But in recent years, basically all the games I want have been Steam only, or “Steam locked” because I am otherwise locked out of the Workshop, multiplayer, or something.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 days ago (2 children)

    That's still not Steam forcing retail exclusivity.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 days ago* (1 child)

    Like how Amazon doesn’t force retail exclusivity, either. They simply dictate prices of other stores.

    …One could just not list on Amazon and go out of business. Or list, and have the vast majority of sales go through Amazon since pricing has to be exactly the same anyway. It’s technically a choice, but it’s effectively no choice for many types of products.

    Steam is largely the same thing. They are a “soft monopoly” now, they technically don’t enforce exclusivity, but it’s often not a choice for game makers.

    Hence basically every indie/AA game I’ve bought recently has been on Steam, in spite of me actively avoiding Steam if I can.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 days ago

    Amazon's situation is that they drove prices up artificially through browbeating vendors by leveraging their considerable power. Items that used to be $10 are now $50. Unless you're suggesting Steam is really what are forcing AAA games to go up to $80, it's not the same situation as Amazon.

    Steam is a textbook example of a natural monopoly. It seems like people have forgotten about this concept. Exclusivity is always a choice for publishers. They do not ever have to only be on Steam, and most games aren't. It's also their choice to rely entirely on Steamworks instead of using alternative technologies.

    You could always choose to buy many of those indie games on GOG, Itch, or on other stores.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 days ago (10 children)

    Baseless assumption on your part.

    You mean the current enshitification due to AI isn't happening on Steam... Baseless!? Please

    Steam doesn't force retail exclusivity.

    They don't have to, they control the market. They are definitely guilty of price fixing though preventing other storefronts from offering better prices.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 days ago (9 children)

    You mean the current enshitification due to AI isn't happening on Steam... Baseless!? Please

    How do you read someone talking about how people in the comment section are so enamoured with Steam that they will ignore if they become way worse overnight, and somehow think they're talking about this other matter entirely?

    They don't have to, they control the market.

    They didn't even when there wasn't a market to control.

    They are definitely guilty of price fixing though preventing other storefronts from offering better prices.

    False. Minimum pricing is a pretty common retail policy and Steam's specifically only applies to where ever Steam keys are distributed.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (8 children)

    Baselessly defending Steam I see.

    They control over 70% of the Market which is considered a monopoly even in the more stringent federal courts.

    False.

    Oh God another Steam key propagandist. The Steam Key thing was debunked years ago and not what anyone is currently talking about. Steam is on record in court lying on the stand about this. If it is "industry standard" why lie? Simply put, they know they engage in price fixing and parity to control the market.

    It is clear you have not studied this.

    https://www.rainintelligence.com/blog/price-parity-mfn-clause-antitrust

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  • [–] 1 point 4 days ago* (7 children)

    Baselessly defending Steam I see.

    Considering you came in here arguing about something nobody said, I don't think you have the best idea of what other people are saying.

    They control over 70% of the Market which is considered a monopoly even in the more stringent federal courts.

    What is this disagreeing with in my comment?

    The Steam Key thing was debunked years ago and not what anyone is currently talking about. Steam is on record in court lying on the stand about this

    Okay, show where.

    It is clear you have not studied this.

    It's an opinion article about the complaint written from arms length, and it covers both the arguments for and against from that disconnected perspective.

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  • [–] 0 points 4 days ago (6 children)

    Considering you came in here arguing about something nobody said

    I made a statement that you have not been able to refute.

    What is this disagreeing with in my comment?

    It is a statement of fact

    Okay, show where.

    Show that you are using some old pro steam propaganda that is unrelated to what is going now? Hard pass.

    It's an opinion article

    Everything is pretty much an opinion. I will pick the side of lawyer's opinions based on evidence and facts. As I said, you have not studied this. You have not read the testimony.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 days ago* (5 children)

    I made a statement that you have not been able to refute.

    Because I don't have any reason to refute the notion of AI games being invasive. I'm not here baselessly defending Steam. And it is still not what anyone was talking about.

    It is a statement of fact

    Without point or purpose?

    Show that you are using some old pro steam propaganda that is unrelated to what is going now? Hard pass.

    No, show those records you say exist. It doesn't matter what I'm operating from.

    Everything is pretty much an opinion. I will pick the side of lawyer's opinions based on evidence and facts. As I said, you have not studied this. You have not read the testimony.

    You don't seem aware about half of what that opinion piece says. It's not even factually rich, it's pretty high level consideration of the complaint. There's no testimony here, or mention of one. I've studied it more than you have it seems.

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  • [–] 0 points 4 days ago* (4 children)

    Because I don't have any reason to refute the notion of AI games being invasive. I'm not here baselessly defending Steam. And it is still not what anyone was talking about.

    You claimed there was no enshitification. This is not true. Steam is wrestling right now with their permissive system. While I truly do like that anyone can put their games on the platform they are facing a deluge of low quality AI games that threatens to choke out Indy developers.

    Without point or purpose?

    If you are being obtuse here I understand, if not then I am actually worried you might be incapable of connecting the dots. Steam is a monopoly that has already enshitified the market. The reason that there is not more competition is because of their practices.

    No, show those records you say exist. It doesn't matter what I'm operating from.

    Show the record that Steam Keys is an old talking point that is not applicable to what I am saying. You need to think a little harder here.

    You don't seem aware about half of what that opinion piece says. It's not even factually

    Please, you have not studied this at all. If you are interested you can look it up and read the testimony like I already have. I was once on Steams side and I have thousands of Steam games. I read the evidence and it is clear they have damaged the market.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 days ago (3 children)

    You claimed there was no enshitification.

    How did you get this from telling someone nobody is ignoring Steam's issues as much as that person said they were? Even my last comment says the opposite of "there is no enshittification".

    If you are being obtuse here I understand, if not then I am actually worried you might be incapable of connecting the dots. Steam is a monopoly that has already enshitified the market. The reason that there is not more competition is because of their practices.

    I was asking you to connect the dots because this isn't related to anything I said. It's unclear why you felt the need to bring this up since it's not in dispute.

    Show the record that Steam Keys is an old talking point that is not applicable to what I am saying. You need to think a little harder here.

    Asking for those records you said exist is not relevant to you saying it's all on record? Seems like you're hoping I think about this less, not more. It's starting to seem like you lied about this.

    Please, you have not studied this at all.

    This accusation would hold more water if you actually argued about what it says instead of Gish galloping elsewhere. Again, that article says more than you seem to realize.

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  • [–] 0 points 4 days ago (2 children)

    You said it was a baseless assumption but it is clear it is already enshitified and people don't care and still have positive sentiment. That is not a baseless assumption as I pointed out with examples. I am not sure why you are having a hard time with this.

    You were clearly disputing his attribution that Steam is a monopoly. You even said retail exclusivity when that is not what he said in order to deny they were a monopoly. You accuse me of bringing random things when you did it to begin with which I pointed with examples. Once again, why are you having a hard time with this.

    I don't have to accuse. I know you have not read about this. I know you have not examined the testimony of the many court cases. I know you are full of it. Gish Gallop my ass.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 days ago (1 child)

    You said it was a baseless assumption but it is clear it is already enshitified and people don't care and still have positive sentiment.

    You still don't know what the original statement was.

    You were clearly disputing his attribution that Steam is a monopoly.

    LOL I'd never argue that. Steam is a textbook natural monopoly.

    You even said retail exclusivity when that is not what he said in order to deny they were a monopoly.

    You don't know what retail exclusivity is.

    You accuse me of bringing random things when you did it to begin with which I pointed with examples. Once again, why are you having a hard time with this.

    Its random because its not relevant to what was actually said. The hardest time here seems to be you trying to figure out what other people have said.

    I don't have to accuse. I know you have not read about this.

    You literally have given zero indication you've read your own link.

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  • [–] 0 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

    You still don't know what the original statement was

    Please reread it and try again.

    LOL I'd never argue that. Steam is a textbook natural monopoly.

    Glad we can agree.

    Its random because its not relevant to what was actually said.

    I am not even sure where you are going with this anymore.

    You literally have given zero indication you've read your own link.

    Did you want to discuss something from it? I can't tell.

    Edit: Oh I get it now, you expect me to do the research for you? The testimony is in several places and I don't feel like doing the leg work I already have. Cheers!

    Wolfire Games v. Valve Corporation antitrust lawsuit if you actually cared.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 days ago

    They were already shitty in the past. Their stellar return policy was ordered by a court and not of their free will.

    Steam has actively engaged in price fixing that has ensured no other store front can offer games for less even if they could because of less overhead.

    Not only do they meet the definition of monopoly by controlling over 70% of the market, they have engaged in monopolistic practices.

    They are not the good guys. They just happen to have a decent product and a lot of goodwill at the moment.

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