daveyOsborn comments on Anubis has a new anti-Tor feature, or what?

[+] daveyOsborn@infosec.pub [S] -7 points 1 week ago* (34 children)

Why would you suggest shock? Incompetence is not shocking. But sometimes putting a spotlight on it is useful.

Just as some CAPTCHA services refuse to send puzzles arbitrarily to a demographic of people in a crude and sloppy collective punishment fashion, demonstrating its own failure to use it’s own technology to separate ham from spam is interesting. In the same way, this proof of work tech is demonstrating its own incompetence.

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[–] AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.works 13 points 1 week ago (5 children)

You'd have a lot more sympathy if you weren't coming across like an ass tossing around unwarranted accusations of incompetence.

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[+] daveyOsborn@infosec.pub [S] -8 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (4 children)

It’s not sympathy that I ask for. It is actually that people recognize that this form of enshitification is that of incompetence. Incompetence is the thesis (thus warranted). When a CAPTCHA or proof of work tool resorts to sloppy reputation-based logic, it defeats its own purpose of obtaining a more accurate result.

As far as “coming across like an ass”, that’s exactly what I see when someone says “conform like everyone else”. “Use the clearnet, and use a mainstream browser”. That is very much being a dick. Or if you are referring to my response to the accusation that I was “shocked”, that is on its own a false statement designed to imply ignorance.

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[–] AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.works 12 points 1 week ago (3 children)

When a CAPTCHA or proof of work tool

That's not what Anubis is. They're an anti-bot firewall. You're the one who decided they're something they aren't.

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[–] daveyOsborn@infosec.pub [S] -5 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (2 children)

Marketing works wonders on people. My devices are doing a lot of work when Anubis presents, to produce what you claim is not a proof-of-work, that is for some reason a barrier to entry. “Firewall” vaguely refers to perimeter security -- not even web-specific. If you think my browser is just waiting around for for an open slot, this does not explain the time lapse consistency. Please explain why “Calculating...Difficulty: 6,…Speed: …kH/s” is presented, if this is not a proof-of-work. Looks like kilohashes to me.

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[–] AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.works 6 points 6 days ago (1 child)

Anubis is a software intended to stop bots that uses proof-of-work as one of the tools in its toolkit. That is different from it being a proof-of-work tool.

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[+] daveyOsborn@infosec.pub [S] -6 points 6 days ago

This is a fallacy of division. It encompasses a proof of work tool. Yet it fails to use it properly to get better accuracy. It doesn’t matter how many tools are in that toolkit. They are not being used sensibly.

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[–] wholookshere@lemmy.blahaj.zone 7 points 1 week ago* (27 children)

If you have better ideas pull up your keyboard and start coding.

But if your just gonna complain without any ideas on how to improve, how can you judge competence?

Welcome to the internet. Where threats are fucking g everywhere masking as everything.

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[+] daveyOsborn@infosec.pub [S] -10 points 1 week ago* (26 children)

But if your just gonna complain without any ideas on how to improve, how can you judge competence?

Not my job.

You don’t need to be a car mechanic to know when a car is broken. It’s wildly arrogant to tell someone at the receiving end of broken tech that they should shut up and stop complaining. That they must be a skater kid if they don’t supply their bug report with a pull request (nevermind that soliciting ideas is part of problem solving) -- while at the same time claiming that code is an option if they don’t know enough (in your view) to spot incompetence.

And you make these cognitive dissonance-driven self-contradictory claims without stating how it is competent to build a proof of work system that resorts to IP reputation or user-agent reputation.

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[–] wholookshere@lemmy.blahaj.zone 9 points 1 week ago* (25 children)

So you do something that makes you look like an attacker, and then get mad when your seen as an attacker.

Your own post calla the developer incompetent. How can you judge that?

Because you did everything an attacker would, and then blamed everyone else.

This isnt a failure, this is a website saying your not welcome. Just like that mechanic shop will tell you when you try an pay in foreign currency. Its not their problem how you connect.

Your not some untechy person here. You intentionally did something strange and indistinguishable from an attacker, and are mad your not accepted for doing so.

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[–] daveyOsborn@infosec.pub [S] -5 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (24 children)

So you do something that makes you look like an attacker

Choosing to run Ungoogled Chromium is an act of self-defense. It’s also a personal choice for several reasons that are apparently beyond your comprehension. I will not apologize for that. Fuck anyone who advocates for conformity and playing the boot-licking pushover.

The idea that it’s necessary to force everyone to conform to a behaviour or particular software chain is driven by incompetence. “we’ll just arrest everyone in ski-masks. Fuck the people who are skiing. They should not have chosen the same clothes as the bank robbers.”

and then get mad when your seen as an attacker.

Collective punishment at the expense of human rights is not justified. But to understand that, you first must appreciate the human right to autonomy and privacy.

Your own post calla the developer incompetent. How can you judge that?

If you cannot understand the purpose of proof of work, I am not going to write an essay here so you can understand what that means, or how it differs the crude technique of discriminating on appearance and reputation factors. The whole point of proof of work in this context is to yield an appraisel that’s smarter, more accurate than a sloppy reputation judgement.

Because you did everything an attacker would, and then blamed everyone else.

“because you wore a red shirt as you entered the shop just like yesterday’s shoplifter, you should expect to get kicked out -- and stop blaming others. Wear a beige-colored shirt like everyone else FFS!”

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[–] wholookshere@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 1 week ago* (23 children)

Why do you feel like you have a right to content?

You don't.

Its not collective punishment. All you have to do is do a normal http request directly. I bet if you turn off tor, itll work.

The website as self defense has blocked for traffic. A business can decide their customers too.

Ffs, it could just be the website down.

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[–] daveyOsborn@infosec.pub [S] -4 points 1 week ago (22 children)

Why do you feel like you have a right to content?

This is a strawman. You did not hear that claim from me.

Its not collective punishment. All you have to do is do a normal http request directly.

Moving someone outside of the collectively punished group does not make the collective punishment non-existent.

I bet if you turn off tor, itll work.

You can only guess and test because it’s a non-transparent design.

The website as self defense has blocked for traffic. A business can decide their customers too.

Of course. Rightfully so. No one contests their power over their own assets.

Ffs, it could just be the website down.

Sure. Of course a transparent design would be useful.

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[–] wholookshere@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 points 6 days ago* (21 children)

If you don't have a right to content, how is it collective punishment, if you admit you don't have an unlimited right to use it the way you want.

Thats my entire argument.

Your going off comparing it to actual Collective punishment

How is you not being able to access information in your preffered format, that you probably still have means to access, an ethnic group....

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[–] daveyOsborn@infosec.pub [S] -3 points 6 days ago* (20 children)

If you don’t have a right to content, how is it collective punishment,

How is this a sensible question? A does not imply B. Punishment is independent of rights. If a kid dressed up as spiderman smashes my pumpkins, and I then refuse to give candy to all kids dressed as spiderman thereafter, it’s collective punishment regardless of whether the kids had a “right” to the candy in the first place.

Thats my entire argument.

And it wholly fails.

How is you not being able to access information in your preffered format, that you probably still have means to access, an ethnic group…

Read your own source: “which could be an ethnic or political group,” It’s an example to help you understand, not a definition.

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[–] wholookshere@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 6 days ago (19 children)

Again, your example is far from a war crime here.

You have every right to give your candy to whom you please, for whatever reason, with the exception of protected classes. Tor is not a protected class, like race, gender, sexuality....

Seriously, your comparing a war crime to someone telling you to fuck off with your connection. A business/person can choose not to engage with you for any reason other than legally protected classes.

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[–] daveyOsborn@infosec.pub [S] -3 points 6 days ago (18 children)

You have every right to give your candy to whom you please, for whatever reason, with the exception of protected classes.

Of course. But rights are not at issue. They are irrelevent, and have been since you brought them up.

Tor is not a protected class, like race, gender, sexuality…

And we are not talking about law or rights, so again, another red herring.

Seriously, your comparing a war crime to someone telling you to fuck off with your connection.

I thought you were deliberately exaggerating when you brought uip war crime the first time. You need help if you think collective punishment inherently involves war crimes.

A business/person can choose not to engage with you for any reason other than legally protected classes.

Of course. I already agreed on this. Means nothing though in terms of the thesis of the thread.

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[–] wholookshere@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 6 days ago (17 children)

So they have the right to tell you to piss off, and your mad yoy got told to piss off. I still fail to see a problem.

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[–] daveyOsborn@infosec.pub [S] -3 points 6 days ago (16 children)

No, I’m not “mad”. I’m not a user of that system. I have invested no time in it -- no content. I was simply visiting one of their communities to verify whether it existed before posting from another node. They put on an embarrassing display and I spotlighted it. I am in a country that gives me a right to criticize and I am happy to exercise that right.

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[–] wholookshere@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 6 days ago (15 children)

That doesn't absolve you from being an ass calling them incompetent. Especially when everyone else reading here says your being an ass.

Its your free speech to say that, and its mine to point out you have no foundation to actually complain.

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[–] daveyOsborn@infosec.pub [S] -3 points 6 days ago (14 children)

Its your free speech to say that, and its mine to point out you have no foundation to actually complain.

Of course. You can make whatever baseless points you want to attempt. But you only make an ass of yourself if you cannot support your claims with facts. So far you’ve failed to show competency in the case at hand.

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[–] wholookshere@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 point 6 days ago (13 children)

Yeah... I'm not the one being an asshole here buddy.....

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[–] daveyOsborn@infosec.pub [S] 0 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (12 children)

I’m not the one being an asshole here buddy

Of course you are. You’re the one supporting oppression. Collective punishment and collateral damage is a dick move. Stop being a dick. You cannot support collective punishment and marginalization of a demographic of people without being an asshole. It’s impossible.

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[–] wholookshere@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (11 children)

As a trams woman, let me know when you get accosted in a bathroom for using tor.

For users are not a demographic, and you are not oppressed for it.

There's actual oppression happening in this world, and your trying to scream its happening to you. Its not.

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[+] daveyOsborn@infosec.pub [S] 1 point 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (11 children)

[removed by mod]

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[–] wholookshere@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 point 5 days ago (10 children)

And you can control one situation, where I can't control the fact I'm a woman.

THATS the difference. Did you choose this. You chose tor, I did not choose to be a woman.

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[+] daveyOsborn@infosec.pub [S] 1 point 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (10 children)

[removed by mod]

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[–] wholookshere@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 point 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (9 children)

I said nothing if acceptance.

Its what makes a protected class protected. Did you choose the class.

I can't choose a woman, you can choose a browser. Its really that simple.

Your brining in acceptance is nonsense. A protected class doesn't stop being protected once accepted.

How I represent is irrelevant. I'm still a woman regardless of how I present. And would have been acosyed in the bathroom for being a trans woman, not what I wore.

And yes, I am telling people to change their choice demographic. I tell people not to vote conservative/republican all the time. Do you not?

Edit: is gender juat you're presentation?

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[–] daveyOsborn@infosec.pub [S] 1 point 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (8 children)

I can’t choose a woman, you can choose a browser. Its really that simple.

No, it’s not. This is as good as telling someone oppressed for their religion: “you chose your religion -- you don’t have to be muslim if you don’t like being oppressed -- become christian”. Of course, this requires you to neglect freedom of autonomy, freedom of thought and conscious, freedom to practice one’s values and live by a philosophy. Choice is irrelevent when the choice is a rightfully protected choice.

(edit) And no, I cannot “choose another browser” when the oppressor does not even disclose which browser they are not blocking. Choice implies transparency.

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[–] wholookshere@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 point 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (7 children)

You don't choose faith, its found to be you. You find your faith and community. Don't believe me? Choose to believe in god for 10 min right now.

Is a browser so important to you that you can't live without it?

Is a browser part of your internal definition of you?

None of those are choices for faith, or other protected classes. Theyre internal identity. Your an ass using a computer.

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[–] daveyOsborn@infosec.pub [S] 1 point 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (6 children)

You don’t choose faith, its found to be you. You find your faith and community.

Nonsense. Religion is a choice in my part of the world. There may be regions where it is imposed, but that’s irrelevent to the demonstration of your foolish stance that it’s okay to oppress demographics of those who made a choice.

We are also free to change our religion, or even join another religion in parallel, where I am.

Is a browser so important to you that you can’t live without it?

This is becoming increasingly so, as governments impose using a browser to obtain public service. (and yes, I am in a country that is a signatory of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which means public service is a right).

Nonetheless, a “living without it” test does not exist in this context. The UDHR does not have such criteria for our right to autonomy. Rightfully so. Women in France got their right to abortion under the right to autonomy. Imagine if they had to prove being unable to live without that right in order to have it. That criteria can fuck right off because we have higher standards than mere survival.

Is a browser part of your internal definition of you?

This is double speak. My choice of browser is a reflection of my ethical values. Some browsers are more closely aligned with my philosophical view than others.

None of those are choices for faith, or other protected classes.

Nonsense. The UDHR does not separate religion from freedom of thought. It’s written in the same article. Would do you some good to read it.

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[–] wholookshere@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 point 5 days ago (5 children)

Then choose to wholly believe in Allah for 10 min if its not a choice. Accept the profit Muhammad as the last profit from god.

If its a choice it should be easy.

Or does it clash with an internal belief system.

We are also free to change our religion, or even join another religion in parallel, where I am.

Thats great, but not what I was talking about.

I'm talking about internal belief systems.

Your browser is not an internal belief system. Its a reflection sure, but so is a the clothing you wear. Are you also oppressed by business casual attire?

I stand by the line being an internal classification vs something you do.

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[–] daveyOsborn@infosec.pub [S] 1 point 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (4 children)

If its a choice it should be easy.

If a choice is inherently easy, in your view, then you are misusing the term. Of course the reality is some choices are easier and some are not.

Thats great, but not what I was talking about. I’m talking about internal belief systems.

The UDHR is not.

Your browser is not an internal belief system.

This is like saying a book is not an “internal belief system”. Yet the bible and koran are books.

Your high-heels is not “an internal belief system”. Nor is a hajab. Does this mean you can’t cite oppression when forced to dress a certain way?

And again, browsers are irrelevant without the transparency of knowing the oppressor’s blocking criteria. They are more likely suppressing people on the basis of their IP address, not browser. But we can only guess because they do not express which demographics they are oppressing. The oppressed knows they are in the oppressed group, but they don’t know how they got there.

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[–] wholookshere@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 point 5 days ago (3 children)

Of course the reality is some choices are easier and some are not.

But why? What makes a choice easier or harder? Is it that internal belief system I keep talking about?

I have no idea what the UDHR is.

The bible doesn't define faith. Its a book. The beluver defines and intrpets the faith.

Do you feel opreased by a book?

Your high-heels is not “an internal belief system”. Nor is a hajab. Does this mean you can’t complain when forced to dress a certain way?

Neither is your browser.

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[–] daveyOsborn@infosec.pub [S] 1 point 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (2 children)

Is it that internal belief system I keep talking about?

You’re talking about it, yet the doublespeak remains irrelevant.

I have no idea what the UDHR is.

Not surprised. Universal declaration of human rights.

Do you feel opreased by a book?

Of course I would feel oppressed when blocked from access to a book, amid your attempt to arguing the contrary by reducing it to an object /being/ a thought. Being blocked from access to books is similar to being blocked from information generally (i.e. the Internet, which is where books now exist).

Neither is your browser.

Okay, but you’re still missing the relationship between objects and the practice of one’s cognitive liberty facilitated those objects. It’s the oppression of cognitive liberty that is the problem. The objects involved are just working for your doublespeak to conflate and trivialize the oppression of a demographic of people.

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[–] wholookshere@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 point 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 child)

Being blocked from access to books is similar to being blocked from information generally (i.e. the Internet, which is where books now exist).

Are bookstores oppressive because they don't have every book? Is wiki because they don't let you edit whatever you want?

Do you not still have access through other means?

Okay, but you’re still missing the relationship between objects and the practice of one’s cognitive liberty facilitated those objects. It’s the oppression of cognitive liberty that is the problem. The objects involved are just working for your doublespeak to conflate and trivialize the oppression of a demographic of people.

And your missing the point of your not entitled to it either. Why does a website HAVE to cater yo how you wish to access? Because the website still has every right to tell you to kick sand. A bookstore can ban you for wearing a backpack. This is the society we live in.

You accessing content still consumes resources, why should the server owner pay for your access your way?

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[–] daveyOsborn@infosec.pub [S] 1 point 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

Are bookstores oppressive because they don’t have every book?

They are oppressive if they arbitrarily deny access to the books they already have to a demographic of people. E.g., you have brown skin, and because a shoplifter had brown skin they decide to block all people in that demographic. Of course collective punishment is oppressive. Anubis is not creating a failure to have information. It’s being used to deny access to information the service already has.

Do you not still have access through other means?

I personally do not. Clearnet does not work on my system. But this is irrelevant. Tor supports my right to privacy and autonomy, and it is consistent with my values and ethical lifestyle. I actually find it unethical to use clearnet needlessly, for a number of reasons, one of which is to do our duty to give strength in numbers to activists and the oppressed. And to give them cover traffic. I also morally oppose advertising and thus object to sharing data with surveillance advertisers.

And your missing the point of your not entitled to it either. Why does a website HAVE to cater yo how you wish to access? Because the website still has every right to tell you to kick sand. A bookstore can ban you for wearing a backpack. This is the society we live in.

For the /third/ time, I already agreed there is no entitlement. The site can grant access to whoever the fuck it wants. And we have the right to express criticism. This is still irrelevant to the thesis of incompetent access controls, as it was the previous times you tried to recycle a this dead strawman of an argument. I never said admins don’t have a right to implement infosec countermeasures in a foolish manner with reckless results. It’s their right. This was not contested by anyone in this thread.