Also we don't even have a biological advantage if we start HRT at tanner stage 2 of puberty, but they're trying to prevent us from getting that either

Also, hormone therapy can change muscle density so their argument about trans women having an unfair advantage is also wrong lmao

Thank you for replying, seriously I appreciate it.

I think* I understand what you are talking about regarding gender vs biological sex. I understand gender to be something in someones head, and understand sex to be a complex amalgamation of whatever physiological traits you pull out of a big bucket as you’re born and grow, also not binary.

I also think* that most people commonly conflate those two spaces, and I am guessing that probably causes a lot of challenges when talking about this issue as I bet there is a lot of talking past each other that happens, probably unintentionally and unknowingly. I’m certain that there is hateful and derogatory coded language and intentional weaponization of language happening too. I’m trying to be extra careful and cautious with my words because I am genuinely curious, and am guessing that curiosity is sometimes used as a foil for trolling or other insincere things, and am assuming you likely have your guard up for these very reasonable reasons.

I am completely ok with people being trans, and feel pretty strongly that anyone should be allowed to do with their bodies as they see fit. I don’t think anyone should be discriminated against because they are trans just as they shouldn’t for any other kind of “is”ness that they “is”.

All that said it does feel to me like there is some nuance with the sports thing though that I struggle with. We do separate the leagues we have historically referred to as mens and women’s based upon someones “bucket pull” of sexual traits, and usually (not always, not black and white, but usually) people consistently pull some consistent traits from the buckets we have historically viewed as mens and women’s traits. Those buckets usually produce some pretty significant differences in physical ability, and we even ban people from participating if they use performance enhancing drugs like testosterone even.

We could collapse all leagues and say that we weren’t going to use observed sexual dimorphism as a constraint and make everyone play in the same league, but that seems like it would be pretty shitty to do to people who are pulling from the bucket of traits we have historically referred to as womens. At the same time, if someone who would otherwise be playing in that league have been discovered to have been taking testosterone they wouldn’t be allowed to play, and prior to starting medication I aren’t (completely assuming, I am ignorant here so correct me if I am wrong) trans women getting higher than “fair for the women league” doses of testosterone? 

I’m not entirely blind to how this would feel super shitty for trans women either, and I know a little something personally about how much it sucks to just draw some cards that say “you don’t get to play”. I was born with some non trivial physical deformities, and could never play sports… except of course for chess (which you mentioned and I am 100% on board with that’s dumb anyone should be able to compete in the men’s league imho).

We could break sports leagues into “unrestricted use all the drugs you want”. “people who have had testosterone over a certain level”, and “people who have had testosterone under that level” instead of what we have today maybe, but that seems really impractical and I doubt it could even be as simple as just testosterone.

It feels like it just isn’t a space where accuracy is possible without grossly invading peoples privacy and overcomplicating the process to the point of harm… And broad brush strokes always leave some people on the edge in a way that is just unfair, but not necessarily the wrong way to do it.

I don’t know what the answer is for sure, but this is kinda where my headspace is at. Certainly open to hearing other peoples opinions here and not trying to insult or hate on anyone.

That's not been my experience. Lemmy has a ton of support to questions, just not ones being asked in bad faith.