you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] 18 points 2 weeks ago (11 children)

The Arab world hasn't been a major force in science or literature for a while, but if you go back a couple of centuries:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age

The Islamic Golden Age was a period of cultural flourishing in the history of Islam, dated from the 8th century CE to the 14th century.[1][2][3][n 1] The period is understood to have begun during the reign of the Abbasid caliph Harun al-Rashid (786–809), with the establishment of the House of Wisdom in Baghdad, one of the world's largest cities at the time. The institution attracted scholars from across the Muslim world to translate the classical knowledge of the known world into Arabic.[4] In addition to Baghdad, the intellectual and cultural activity also flourished in other urban centers of the medieval Islamic world, including Cairo, and Umayyad Córdoba (capital of Al-Andalus), as well as Damascus, Nishapur, Samarkand, Ghazni, Kairouan, and Fez,[5] and in later centuries, Nasrid Granada.

The period is said to have ended with the collapse of the Abbasid caliphate following the Mongol invasions and the Siege of Baghdad in 1258.[6][7] Select scholars extend the end of the golden age to around 1350, thereby including the Timurid Renaissance.[8][9] Others extend it to the 15th century, including the Nasrid Kingdom of Granada, whose court remained an important centre of scholarship, culture and literature, or even to the 16th century, incorporating the rise of the Islamic gunpowder empires.[10][1][2][3]

  • source
  • hideshow 11 child comments
  • [–] 19 points 2 weeks ago (8 children)

    So what if it's not currently the major force? Last year's Nobel Prize winner in Chemistry was Jordanian, for example.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 8 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 2 weeks ago (7 children)

    The point is that Arabic countries only represent 1-2% of what they "should" in modern science and literature compared to the size of the language. 1500 years ago however, they were the leaders of the world.
    IDK but I think it's fair to say that something went wrong for the Arab speaking countries at some point in the past 1500 years. So they now are culturally and scientifically behind when they used to be ahead.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 7 child comments
  • [–] 7 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)
  • [–] 4 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

    Absolutely that has made things worse, but religious fundamentalism hasn't helped either.
    We had that too in Europe, but while Europe progressed the Arab countries seemed to stagnate, and even double down on it.
    But I'm not a historian, there may be other reasons, I'm just not aware what they might be?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago (1 child)

    The torch of science and learning was passed from the Roman Empire to the Byzantine, and then the Muslim caliphates (principally the Abbasid Caliphate). Europe saw its resurgence beginning in the 15th century as the Islamic world declined following the reconquest of Spain. What followed was colonialism which slowly and systematically dismantled existing power structures in most of the world outside of Europe, culminating, perhaps, in WWI with the fall of the Ottoman Empire, the last center of the once great Islamic culture. Around the beginning of the 20th century at the peak of European empire, Middle Eastern oil reserves were discovered, cementing the fate of the region as the center of global struggles over energy dominance in which the Islamic powers were not equipped to compete, having already been colonized or weakened in conflicts with European powers.

    Religion is a well of hope for otherwise hopeless people. It is no surprise that colonized peoples turn to it en masse.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 0 points 2 weeks ago

    The Petrochemical War of 1152 was quite the doozy.

    The academic decline of (some portions of) the Middle East happened well before the practical use of petrochemicals or the founding or even discovery of America. The US could take this as a cautionary tale of the dangers of anti-intellectualism, but instead they will couch this as a moral failing of a race or religion.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago* (1 child)

    1500 years ago, they were disjointed nomadic tribes living in the desert.

    What I assume you're referring to is maybe 1000 years ago, when they had the largest and most advanced civilization in the world.

    You can look up the Baghdad University, the Cairo University, or Andalusian Spain for more info.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago*

    Not quite true, 1500 years ago was the dawn of that. The point where they began to expand. And they were absolutely more than just "disjointed nomadic tribes".

    You can see the Rashidun Caliphate after the death of Muhammad in 632 was quite big and united.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rashidun_Caliphate

    The caliphate's first 25 years were characterized by rapid military expansion during which it became the most powerful economic and military force in West Asia

    And that was the precursor to the Umayyad Caliphate 661–750, that included for instance Spain.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umayyad_Caliphate

    So 1500 years ago is more accurate than 1000.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 7 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

    My issue with describing it as “not contributing to the sciences” by comparing it to the golden age is that it ignores the baseline scientific work that Arab PhDs, postdocs, and professors do contribute. I mean, the entire Iranian sanction thing right now is throwing a knot into the US university research systems that do allow foreign students and professors to participate, and much of their tuition dollars go towards student assistance for residential students. Just because it is not a bit new thing in science, does not mean that Arabs do not contribute to sciences.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 3 points 2 weeks ago

    It's almost like empires flourish and then - don't....might be something RFK jr and donnie might want to brush up on. Might be that people end up writing about how America was once the source of a lot of advancements and now is some zealotry-filled backwater run by extremist assholes.

  • source
  • parent