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Americans in a nutshell (lemmy.ml)
submitted 3 weeks ago by to c/comics@lemmy.ml
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[+] -7 points 3 weeks ago (11 children)

then capitalists holding the levers of production doesn't necessarily make capitalists a class. you're deluding your own definitions.

"Administrators share the same class interest with other workers: collectivization of the means of production and distribution."

  • removing the ability for the people to hold the administrators accountable is divorcing the workers from ownership over the means of production.

"You have invented the idea of unilateral control, and have invented the idea that the working classes as a whole do not participate in mass democratization of society in unitary socialist democracies."

  • you have no adequately demonstrated how the vector of power points from the workers down to the administrators in unitary socialist democracies.
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  • [–] 9 points 3 weeks ago (10 children)

    Capitalists do not merely "hold the levers of production," they outright own it. My entire point is that control and ownership are different. I am not contradicting myself in any way, it is your point that any grouping of people whatsoever is a class.

    Socialist democracy does not remove the ability for people to hold administrators accountable. You invented this.

    Administrators are a type of worker, not a class. Power is held by the working class as a whole, not merely administrators. Administrators serve a specific function in large organizations of people, not a class in and of themselves. Socialist democracy begins from the people, not the party. The role of the party is in guiding the working classes as fellow workers, not as commanding the working classes from above.

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  • [–] -4 points 3 weeks ago (9 children)

    "Capitalists do not merely β€œhold the levers of production,” they outright own it. My entire point is that control and ownership are different."

    "Socialist democracy does not remove the ability for people to hold administrators accountable. You invented this."

    • how to workers peacefully remove administrators they don't like at any level of the communist party strata without explicit approval from the communist party?
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  • [–] 6 points 3 weeks ago (8 children)

    Managers in a McDonalds do not actually have the ability to sell or make total calls over what to do with it, the owners do. Administrators are similar, they are joint owners with the entire working class.

    As for your second question, recall elections. Read the book.

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  • [–] -4 points 3 weeks ago (7 children)

    "Managers in a McDonalds do not actually have the ability to sell or make total calls over what to do with it, the owners do. Administrators are similar, they are joint owners with the entire working class."

    • why did no one recall stalin during his great purge, or Mao during the great famine?
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  • [–] 5 points 3 weeks ago (6 children)

    Because the people widely supported the purges and Stalin himself, and Mao did not create the famine but instead responded to one, with the people widely supporting him.

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  • [–] -5 points 3 weeks ago (5 children)

    I dont care if Mao didn't cause the famine, he fumbled it hard and would have been removed by his people if they had the power to do so. millions died.

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  • [–] 6 points 3 weeks ago (4 children)

    No he would not have been removed, lmao. Mao was incredibly popular until deep into the Cultural Revolution, where he began to be less influential.

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  • [–] -3 points 3 weeks ago* (3 children)

    his mismanagement killed millions.

    if the communist party apparatus gave the people the ability to do so, and had not conformed the entire culture around party loyalty by removing dissenting political views, he would have been removed.

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  • [–] 7 points 3 weeks ago* (2 children)

    Your personal opinion on the man does not mean he would have been removed, he was and still is a beloved and popular figure whose tenure saw the end of famine in China and a doubling of life expectancy. Stop assuming your own views represent those of Chinese workers and peasants under Mao, this is naked chauvanism. Either provide evidence backing your claim that the people would have removed him or stop this pointless claim.

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  • [+] -6 points 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    "he was and still is a beloved and popular figure whose tenure saw the end of famine in China"

    • a famine he mismanaged and lead to the deaths of millions.

    any functioning democracy would have removed that man.

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