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A month before an election!? BlooMAGA, amirite??? (lemmy.world)
submitted 1 month ago by to c/politicalmemes@lemmy.world
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[–] 5 points 1 month ago (14 children)

Strange to see an anarchist go to bat for tankies, let alone proclaim to vote, but it’s at least interesting.

i have plenty of criticisms for MLs, but i am willing to work with them on shared goals; it's kind of the fundamentals of a coalition. the problem is i don't really have shared goals with liberals and whenever i've try to ask liberal politicians to advance anything i care about i get either ignored or hostility.

showing up to vote every year is not the same as engaging in electoral politics. i have no patience for political campaigns, and i usually just protest vote anyways.

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  • [–] -4 points 1 month ago (13 children)

    i have plenty of criticisms for MLs, but i am willing to work with them on shared goals; it’s kind of the fundamentals of a coalition. the problem is i don’t really have shared goals with liberals and whenever i’ve try to ask liberal politicians to advance anything i care about i get either ignored or hostility.

    Sorry to hear you feel that way, but it seems like you're letting rare anecdote drive your stereotyping into hostility towards a group - the exact thing you accused me of earlier.

    showing up to vote every year is not the same as engaging in electoral politics. i have no patience for political campaigns, and i usually just protest vote anyways.

    Ah okay, then yeah you're pictured in the meme. Protest votes towards candidates with ~0% chance of winning in the general are tantamount to staying home. Odd to see you'll hold your noise for a coalition in one case but not in the other, but I doubt I can convince you otherwise in this conversation (or life).

    To me:

    1. Democrats don't want a boot on my neck

    2. Republicans want a Hitler-flavored boot on my neck

    3. Tankies want a Stalin-flavored boot on my neck

    The choice for who I ally with seems obvious, much like in the OP. I would think an anarchist would agree with that logic more than anyone, but obviously you're not obligated to tell the truth on the internet.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 month ago (12 children)

    but it seems like you’re letting rare anecdote drive your stereotyping into hostility towards a group - the exact thing you accused me of earlier.

    i promise you it's not rare, it's an ongoing phenomena. i literally just had comrades getting arrested by democrat politicians for protesting those politicians abandoning trans kids medically to protect institutions and placate trump.

    To me:

    1. Democrats don't want a boot on my neck

    2. Republicans want a Hitler-flavored boot on my neck

    3. Tankies want a Stalin-flavored boot on my neck

    this says more about you than anything else. democrats have had their boots on plenty of necks, just with more appealing branding. democrats built and operated the deportation machine before trump, have been bombing multiple countries continuously when in power, and out of power are arresting trans activists rather than opposing trump.

    saying that there's no boot requires a lot of selective vision or you're just the one wearing the boot.

    for me the boot is capitalism and its associated political economy and heirarchies.

    To me:

    1. Democrats want a boot on my neck, but with slightly slower and better managed extermination of undesirables

    2. Republicans want a boot on my neck, but with significantly faster extermination of undesirables.

    3. MLs want to get rid of the boot entirely, but we disagree on some details

    the choice for who i ally with seems obvious

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  • [–] -4 points 1 month ago (11 children)

    i promise you it’s not rare, it’s an ongoing phenomena. i literally just had comrades getting arrested by democrat politicians for protesting those politicians abandoning trans kids medically to protect institutions and placate trump.

    Loads of details left out of this, so I can't really say if I would be For or Against those arrests, but your ideology as stated in this thread is predicated upon tankies never arresting protestors, which is... how to put it politely... incorrect.

    this says more about you than anything else. democrats have had their boots on plenty of necks, just with more appealing branding. democrats built and operated the deportation machine before trump, have been bombing multiple countries continuously when in power, and out of power are arresting trans activists rather than opposing trump.

    Yeah, fair to say that I hyperbolized - Democrats can be oppressors just like anyone else, but much like the meme points out, they do it far less, so that's how I vote when the General rolls around.

    The point, as always, is as that other meme from a couple days ago expressed where you have a tally board with 50,000 tallies and one with 5. Tankies (and their self-proclaimed non-tankie allies, as you claim to be) insist those numbers are identical, so you shouldn't bother supporting either side. I think that's preposterous to the point of clear bad faith argument, but I recognize it's possible that someone... less wise... may in fact fully believe it.

    5 is bad. I want it to be 0. But I'll take 5 over 50,000 any day of the week and you will never convince me that's wrong (in the General).

    MLs want to get rid of the boot entirely, but we disagree on some details

    Frankly: bruh

    You simply are completely unaware of the practices of Lenin, Stalin, Mao, and their friends.

    Marxists may want to get rid of the boot, but Marxist-Leninists firmly do not.

    Here's some things you might want to read about (in case you're not trolling) and anyone who made it this far who isn't aware you're completely wrong on that bit:

    Plenty of M-L boots on plenty of necks in any of those examples. I don't see how you could ignore that apart from a No True M-L fallacy angle.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago (10 children)

    Loads of details left out of this, so I can’t really say if I would be For or Against those arrests, but your ideology as stated in this thread is predicated upon tankies never arresting protestors, which is… how to put it politely… incorrect.

    yes i had a feeling you would be sitting on the fence about this officer.

    'tankies' are in no position to arrest me, nor is the prospect of them doing so anything close to an immediate threat. meanwhile if i give you more details about what i get up to you or another liberal would probably try to have me arrested all the same.

    is as that other meme from a couple days ago expressed where you have a tally board with 50,000 tallies and one with 5.

    dawg godric is always vomiting out dishonestly framed garbage, idk why you take it seriously. the tally board framing flatters democrats harms by only counting visible acts of harm while ignoring the structural harm they maintain and enable. for example the deportation machine, the carceral state, the warmongering, the genocide funding, the preemptive compliance with trump. counting those as 5 tally marks would be laughable because that's the infrastructure of harm that makes the 50,000 possible.

    You simply are completely unaware of the practices of Lenin, Stalin, Mao, and their friends.

    i have probably read orders of magnitude more from and about those guys than you have, but thank you for linking wikipedia to me doggirl-lol

    however many skulls you attribute to those fighting against capitalism, the pile created by capitalism dwarfs that.

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  • [–] -4 points 1 month ago* (9 children)

    yes i had a feeling you would be sitting on the fence about this

    "Someone didn't immediately decide For or Against something with limited information?! Fucking fence sitter!"

    ‘tankies’ are in no position to arrest me, nor is the prospect of them doing so anything close to an immediate threat.

    Yeah, because they're not in power (yet) in your area. How does that make any sense, to support despotism as long as it isn't in power? If they seize power in your area and you are subsequently oppressed, then and only then will you be against their political philosophy?

    Pretty selfish and short-sighted IMO. I hate nazis. I don't need them to be in power to hate them.

    meanwhile if i give you more details about what i get up to you or another liberal would probably try to have me arrested all the same.

    Yeah again, I'm not advocating For or Against whatever crime you're talking about because I have zero details about it.

    I feel like it doesn't take a lot of thinking to realize why, but I can hold your hand through the logic if you'd like.

    dawg godric is always vomiting out dishonestly framed garbage, idk why you take it seriously. the tally board framing flatters democrats harms by only counting visible acts of harm while ignoring the structural harm they maintain and enable. for example the deportation machine

    Which Republicans are far more guilty of.

    the carceral state

    Which Republicans are far more guilty of.

    the warmongering

    Which Republicans are far more guilty of.

    the genocide funding,

    Which Republicans are far more guilty of.

    the preemptive compliance with trump

    Which Republicans are far more guilty of.

    counting those as 5 tally marks would be laughable because that’s the infrastructure of harm that makes the 50,000 possible.

    I have this same argument with you tankie(-allies) just about every week on Lemmy; you fail to understand the concept of "Lesser of Two Evils." Or in your case, you fail to apply it to liberals when you are perfectly comfortable applying it to tankies. Either you're confused or you're a propagandist.

    i have probably read orders of magnitude more from and about those guys than you have, but thank you for linking wikipedia to me

    Evidently not, because just a moment ago you claimed there are zero boots on necks under Marxist-Leninist governments.

    however many skulls you attribute to those fighting against capitalism, the pile created by capitalism dwarfs that.

    Okay so now that you've moved the goal-post from "There is zero despotism under M-L" to "Well, a little despotism is okay. We can exterminate certain people we disagree with," you align with fascists more than you align with liberals (or anarchists, for that matter).

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (8 children)

    Okay so now that you’ve moved the goal-post from “There is zero despotism under M-L” to “Well, a little despotism is okay. We can exterminate certain people we disagree with,” you align with fascists more than you align with liberals (or anarchists, for that matter).

    i am in favor of being authoritarian towards capitalists, yes. you literally work/worked for the carceral state, you are in no position to accuse anyone else of being aligned with fascists.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (7 children)

    i am in favor of being authoritarian towards capitalists, yes.

    Then why the hell say "MLs want to get rid of the boot entirely" when you are advocating for that very boot?

    Are you just hoping someone gullible reads what you're writing?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago* (6 children) 
    i am in favor of being authoritarian towards capitalists, yes.

    Then why the hell say “MLs want to get rid of the boot entirely” when you are advocating for that very boot?

    as i said here, earlier in our correspondance

    for me the boot is capitalism and its associated political economy and hierarchies.

    please try to keep up

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (5 children)

    Fair enough, I must've missed your niche definition of "the boot" (AKA authoritarianism).

    Bizarre, but I guess if you're doing mental gymnastics your worldview can definitely make sense to you, much like The Ice Wall is perfectly logical to Flat Earthers.

    So in sum, you think that anti-capitalist authoritarianism literally is not authoritarianism. If that's the case, we have nothing further to discuss.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    it's not mental gymnastics, all definitions of authoritarianism have ideological assumptions baked in. i am opposed to capitalism. overthrowing capitalism is going to be authoritarian from the perspective of the capitalists. i am in favor of that.

    i am opposed to a dictatorship of capital, which is what both republicans and democrats are in favor of. that is liberal authoritarianism

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (3 children)

    it’s not mental gymnastics, all definitions of authoritarianism have ideological assumptions baked in

    They really don't, but go on.

    overthrowing capitalism is going to be authoritarian from the perspective of the capitalists.

    Not necessarily, but that is one method.

    i am opposed to a dictatorship of capital, which is what both republicans and democrats are in favor of. that is liberal authoritarianism

    Right, but you're for dictatorship of another flavor, ergo you are not an anarchist.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    Right, but you're for dictatorship of another flavor, ergo you are not an anarchist.

    I am opposed to unjust and imposed hierarchies as an anarchist. Capitalists want to maintain and continue those hierarchies. A revolution which overturns their domination is authoritarian towards them, but liberatory for everyone else.

    All revolutions are going to be authoritarian towards someone, and you are acting as if the status quo isn't also authoritarian. Passively voting and trying to reform a system of oppression does not have a track record of success. It does nothing to actually challenge the system of oppression either.

    Also are a cop, incredible gall to call me not-an - anarchist lmao

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago* (1 child)

    A revolution which overturns their domination is authoritarian towards them, but liberatory for everyone else.

    Yet again, you're using a niche definition and acting as though readers should have known it.

    Passively voting and trying to reform a system of oppression does not have a track record of success.

    Not strictly true. You should instead say "I find the rates of peaceful reform for the better to be too slow and unlikely."

    Also are a cop, incredible gall to call me not-an - anarchist lmao

    So when kids on the playground said "takes one to know one," you understood that to be true and wise? I'm not shocked or anything, but it is kinda funny that you still think that way (but seemingly don't apply that logic to yourself).

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  • [–] 0 points 1 month ago

    Yet again, you’re using a niche definition and acting as though readers should have known it.

    yes, i am using a definition other than the liberal moralizing version. if you actually read and engaged with what i have said i would expect you to be able to follow that, it's not the first time i've outlined that.

    You should instead say “I find the rates of peaceful reform for the better to be too slow and unlikely.”

    this is being pedantic. peaceful reform has a track record of being rolled back whenever capital feels threatened

    So when kids on the playground said "takes one to know one," you understood that to be true and wise?

    its more that not even other anarchists are in a position to dictate to other anarchists who is and isn't an anarchist. having someone who seems completely fine with the carceral state calling me not-an-anarchist just makes me laugh

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