Kobibi comments on Mainland North America still had mammoths just 5,000 years ago

[–] Kobibi@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (3 children)

Which Native Americans historically have said they used to hunt them? Mammoths went extinct in the USA around 12000 years ago, so this story doesn't ring true. Oral history just does not survive that long

There's a debate as to whether giant animals from Native American folklore are a warped cultural retention of extinct megafauna, sure.

To be clear, Native Americans did hunt Mammoths, and they have also been oppressed and culturally maligned. No disagreement there

But I'm very much questioning that Native Americans outside of modern academic contexts have claimed knowledge of what their tribes hunted in 10,000 BC

permalink

fedilink

source

parent

hideshow 3 child comments

[–] Nouvellalia@lemmy.world 1 point 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

There are plenty of examples of oral history surviving far longer. The oldest verified oral information is 80100kyr. There were also plenty of examples of indigenous Americans passing down written history. Then, you are throwing around numbers like 10,000 and 12,000 directly under an article talking about mammoths being in North America 5000 years ago. You're all over the place.

And this is the same kind of stuff I was talking about in my other comment. You're saying 'oh sure they were strong and competent hunters, but I can't believe they remembered things or kept a history.'

permalink

fedilink

source

parent

hideshow 2 child comments

[–] Kobibi@sh.itjust.works 1 point 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 child)

Okay first of all I'm saying I can't believe any culture or people anywhere ever has a detailed history of their ancestral habits 12,000 years ago, at least prior to modern anthropology. It's not a slight on Native Americans specifically.

For context, the Epic of Gilgamesh from Mesopotamia, generally regarded as the world's oldest surviving literature, is 4,000 years old.

I would genuinely love to see a source about this 80,000 year old oral history. I admit to being sceptical.

Secondly, it's not under an article about Mammoths existing 5,000 years ago. It's under a meme. A wrong meme.

I've thrown out 1 number, not 2. 12,000 years ago, or 10,000 BC. This is the same. It's also when Mammoths went extinct. I am consistent on this.

permalink

fedilink

source

parent

hideshow 1 child comment

[–] Nouvellalia@lemmy.world 1 point 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Yes 12kya and 10k bc are the same thing my bad. When it comes to that most ancient of ancient stories, it's the story of the formation of Budj Bim, and it's closer to 40kya not 80.

There are plenty of younger stories (7-12kya) from the Australian Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people, as well. These people are not outliers. They were just able to carry these stories long enough through colonization that they made it to a point where some colonized folks cared enough to investigate them.

Edit: Now that I've had a minute to refresh my mind, it looks like I was calling the average on two different stories. There is another story that tells of verifiable star movements from 100kya. Budj Bim was the oldest one that could verifiably be used as evidence of occupation of Australia.

https://theconversation.com/the-worlds-oldest-story-astronomers-say-global-myths-about-seven-sisters-stars-may-reach-back-100-000-years-151568

permalink

fedilink

source

parent