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[–] 114 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (53 children)

“I am legit probably going to close my servers and delete my account after all this,”

Oh by gods just fucking do it! All year I've had friends say shit like this, but then it turns out me and one friend of mine were the only ones with the balls to do it.

We set up a Matrix server for everyone, but then the excuses come rolling in, and they're still going "I will close down my Discord account...! If it gets any worse..."

Edit: anyway, they're not my friends anymore. I had hoped they were better people. They certainly talk like better people.

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  • [–] 64 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

    It's hard to leave when a huge chunk of your interpersonal connections are tangled in its web. It's the same reason Facebook and Twitter still exist.

    That's part of the reason why these platforms have such high valuations per capita, opposed to non- or less-social apps. There's a lot of momentum.

    I host a Matrix server myself and even I still use Discord more because that's where people are. Matrix has its own issues and, frankly, it's a shitshow; discord offers a lot of features with better UX and it has a lot of people.

    The only reason Skype and team speak died* was because Discord provided a better value. Now it has the momentum, and the only way it will die is if something else offers even more value. Enshitification helps shift, but the momentum fights against it; momentum is like a small multiplier on top of its feature value.

    Even if the app enshitifies, even if their base value drops; the product is still larger because of the userbase. So it becomes a chicken and egg problem. Until an inflection point is hit, their sheer mass buys them room to enshittify.

    People who can walk away early are the exception, not the rule. It's why people still use Reddit more than Lemmy. I may get some hate for this, but I don't think the people on Lemmy are inherently "better." There are selection biases, and I'm sure that holds true by some metrics, but not in totality.

    "If everyone accelerated at the same time, there wouldn't be a traffic jam" is true, but that's not how the world or its people work; you just need to come to terms with that before you can do anything about it.

    Edit: speech to text typos. Probably missed some.

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  • [–] 23 points 1 month ago (39 children)

    The issue is many groups only have a presence on Discord, like community groups. I'm part of a couple local communities, and there's no way you're going to get hundreds of people to migrate over without something that affects functionality in a major way finally prompting people to make the switch.

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  • [+] 21 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (14 children)
  • [–] 10 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    Maybe, but I think it really boils down to convenience and ease of use. People will stick around until the pain of moving to a new platform is less than the pain of staying there.

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  • [+] 20 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (4 children)
  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago

    Literally this whenever I mention what Discord has been caught with.

    My friend reached out to some people I used to know on Discord now that it's AI and age verification is finally fully active, and the response he got was "I know, but, I didn't notice any change".

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  • [–] 7 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    I think you're preaching to the choir though. Most people on Lemmy aren't here because its got the best memes OE anything. It just sucks when it seems like almost everyone in your life shrugs at doing the right thing because it is inconvenient.

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  • [+] 6 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)
  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago

    Checks out.

    You ask someone to see or find some cool alternative thing you've been using, they'll insist it's either one more app or come up with excuses to stay with the corporate thing. It's always the corporate thing.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago

    Presumably they don't have to open all those apps every time they want to chat to their friends, i.e. every day. Presumably they think friendship with you is a two-way street and that you'll hear their needs and reach a compromise in a way that is impossible with a big corporation like an airline.

    But more than any of that, people reference their behaviour to what everyone else is doing. You're the outlier because you're asking for something that none of their other friends ask for.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 month ago (7 children)

    This comic is referring to holding positions in political context where there is an active genocide being perpetrated by the US on 2 fronts both in Gaza and at home via ICE detention centers. Comparing it to people who are struggling to find a rellacement for a chat app because of age verification is either a gross misue of your ability to comprehend analogy, or you really see consumption on par with mass violence and terrorism.

    Maybe you need to sit this out for a bit.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (2 children)

    Using Discord is giving your data to AI for its training and to the American government, which is enacting all these terrible things. Ergo, staying on Discord because going onto Matrix is mildly inconvenient is taking a privileged and complacent political stance.

    Even if America wasn't doing these things and Discord wasn't feeding your data to them, using Discord with their they AI scanning all your messages and activities is still being tolerant towards authoritarian surveillance.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago

    Never said it was limited to Discord. But it's the easiest thing to change. Getting rid of Discord and replacing it with something someone you've trusted for a long time has set up would be like "Baby's first activism".

    Nobody is leaving Discord because they're not feeling the consequences of staying. Those consequences are elsewhere, and a flaw in humanity that keeps consistently disappointing me is if the consequences are not literally happening in front of their eyes, or effecting their own lives, it's somehow just not real enough. And because it's not real enough being mildly inconvenienced by missing one or two mostly inconsequential comforts seems like the bigger problem.

    Like how people weren't taking COVID-19 seriously after it didn't end civilisation over night.

    Or like how people aren't really taking climate change seriously.

    A wonderful example of this was when Australia was on fire, and the Americans were calling them crybabies. But then later that year America was on fire and suddenly forest fires were just the worst!

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  • [+] -1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (4 children)
  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    Jesus christ then yeah you really aren't interested in any of the things you claim. You realize there is NO ethical consumption under capitalism right? That means there is NO right choice. You do what you can with ehat you have available. If you want to only consume the things that produce exactly zero or less net harm in society you're gonna have to start drinking your own filtered piss. Now because I understand analogy I can say you are basically already doing that.

    And leaning on upvotes are a great way to reveal that you were polling from the get go and only assuming what you said might hit. What if you got downvoted because you were in a different community that was getting a different point across? I now just don't think you actually have a point you're just agitating because it's the popular move

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  • [+] 6 points 1 month ago* (2 children)
  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    Hey first and foremost I think you're a reasonable person and you took a step back in a lot of those points to prove it and I appreciate it.

    I want to take a look at the whole throughline here though, someone made a claim that the problem you're going to run into is large communities that either don't have the means or the organization to relocate platforms. You posted the comic in response and then immediately came out swinging about how complicit consumption enables terrorism. Does this not seem entirely inappropriate to you? Aunt Tracey's knitting group got together and had all of their niece's show them how to use Discord, no one can explain FOSS hosting to them, now Al-Qaeda wins. If I'm being dramatic yes, but only as much as you are in response here.

    I stopped paying for Nitro the first time this news came out. I haven't reupped it. Discord is a miserable experience for me now and is an ugly app without the Nitro options. Doesn't chanve the fact that the few communities I do belong to are still central to and maintained within the Discord environment. If they move I'll move but some left infigthing jerk off session isn't going to be what changes their mind.

    My real point is I find anything that leads to further alienation is going to be the wrong choice, and that's including, for lack of a better term, libjacketing people who don't have a dog in the race one way or another. We're all looking for a way out man.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago (24 children)

    And I fucking hate those people. All of them will say "but I won't move until other people move", and so nobody will move.

    Complacency is not a good excuse.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago (23 children)

    Just a random reminder that judging people SOLELY on their consumption practices under capitalism is actually an asshole move. Not everyoneone has the time, patience, or means to make all of the same choices you do, and it's not their fault that availabilty is commanded by monopolies and consolidated power structures.

    You can keep hating if you want but those people will not miss you and you will find that your options are rapidly shrinking at a time when you're going to need people most.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago (14 children)

    I judge people on consumption practices that are easy to change. Not me nor anyone can do anything about all the affordable things we need to survive coming from sweatshops or destroying the environment.

    But Discord doesn't come even close to approaching any such thing, and it costs literally nothing to collectively dump it. Especially if some technical friends have already done all the technical work for you.

    Fuck anyone who tries to make that comparison.

    You can keep hating if you want but those people will not miss you...

    I won't miss them either. Only what I thought they stood for.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (13 children)

    I mean how are you interfacing here on Lemmy? You got an iPhone or are you using technology that wasn't built by one of the 5 companies trying to actibely destroy the world?

    I don't think yoy need to be putting this much moral burden on Discord that it makes you actively shun people who are otherwise probably not monsters. When I say SOLELY I do mean are you making any other calculation here like whether they've been a good friend to you or are someone you might be able to cpnvince down the road? People who still go to Starbucks disgust me but if I have a friend who works for Non-Profit orgs or volunteers time and just doesn't have the desire to focus on where they're picking up their 2 dollar drip coffee I might sneer at them when they do it but hate doesn't enter into it.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 month ago (12 children)

    Since I already answered most of this in my previous comment, I'll just copy pasta it:

    I judge people on consumption practices that are easy to change. Not me nor anyone can do anything about all the affordable things we need to survive coming from sweatshops or destroying the environment. But Discord doesn't come even close to approaching any such thing, and it costs literally nothing to collectively dump it. Especially if some technical friends have already done all the technical work _for you._ Fuck anyone who tries to make that comparison.

    As for the new thing:

    I don't think yoy need to be putting this much moral burden on Discord that it makes you actively shun people who are otherwise probably not monsters.

    I can, I should, and I will. So you can go fuck yourself.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 month ago (11 children)

    Yeah starting to get the sense that people didn't follow you to Matrix vecause you've gone out of your way to make yourself as insufferably sanctimonious as possible. Can't blame them.

    It sounds like being you is deeply unenviable. Good luck! Being a full on cunt will never convince anyone to be on your side!

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (10 children)

    Yes, believe whatever is most comfortable for you to believe, because gods forbid a modicum of principle is demanded.

    Being a full on cunt...

    Only my bestest behaviour towards those most deserving.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (9 children)

    Alright if you wanna keep it going.

    I would look up what modicum means, my guy.

    Who were these friends? Were they people you knew in real life? Were they peolle you knew for years, hell even maybe a handful of months? Were they people you spent time with, had conversations with? Did you share ideas or passions? Who were they?

    I'm asking because I genuinely want to know what made them 'deserve' this. And no, I don't presume you're talking to me because you don't even know who I am and I have been nothing but polite to you up to this point. You don't know what I deserve, jnless I'm right about the sanctimonious thing and God only knows how deeply helpless you are if it's that bad.

    Who were they, and what made keeping Discord such a damning act? I just don't believe that can be it. You can't seriously leverage the entire system of morals and countenance on a group of people by one point of information here, in all of my deepest sincerity, you're gonna drive yourself insane, man.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (8 children)

    Who were these friends? Were they people you knew in real life? Were they peolle you knew for years, hell even maybe a handful of months? Were they people you spent time with, had conversations with? Did you share ideas or passions? Who were they?

    Who were they, and what made keeping Discord such a damning act?

    I've known some of the for 10 years. I don't think there's a single one who I've known for less than a year. I know their supposed political views and what they say they support, and the things we supposedly agreed on.

    But like everyone they just like to talk.

    And I've been seeing the same complacent crap about Discord on Mastodon, Bluesky, and Lemmy, and I'm going to have zero tolerance for people who take what is literally techno fascism belly up.

    And no, I don't presume you're talking to me because you don't even know who I am and I have been nothing but polite to you up to this point.

    Politeness doesn't make your bullshit palatable. And why would I even need to know more about you when you're defending the use of Discord?

    If you ever find yourself asking "how could people let XYZ happen" about some past tyrrany, look in the mirror.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (6 children)

    There is ignorance, then there is willful ignorance. I'll repeat myself; get fucked.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (4 children)

    Siiiiggghhhhhhh...

    I judge people on consumption practices that are easy to change. Not me nor anyone can do anything about all the affordable things we need to survive coming from sweatshops or destroying the environment. But Discord doesn't come even close to approaching any such thing, and it costs literally nothing to collectively dump it. Especially if some technical friends have already done all the technical work for you.

    You're using some sort of fallacy I forgot the name of. The one where you argue about changing something problematic because other problems also still exist.

    Is it "whataboutism"?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (7 children)

    Just a random reminder that your excuse making is laughable, especially with your inherently pretentious and entitled phrasing.

    You either have principles you uphold or you don't, and then you're usually a hypocrite, or at least, openly self-centered. Often both.

    Us non hypocrites won't miss not knowing another insecure panicked self centered hypocrite, just as you evidently won't miss knowing people who actually have standards they judge themselves and others by equally.

    Its a very bad plan to rely on people with no principles, so your threat of exclusion from the group of people who despise being inconvenienced and can't follow through on doing inconvenient things, is... laughable.

    What does 'availability is commanded by monopolies...' even mean?

    What, you don't have the ... mental capacity, brain ability to cancel or delete or stop using one piece of software and instead use another? Yet here you are writing your apologia on a uh, non socially standard message board, so obviously that isn't true.

    Yeah I'm gonna be the asshole and tell you if you can't make responsible decisions for yourself, I don't care about you and your inability to stop doing what is ultimately self destructive behavior.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 month ago (6 children)

    Jesus christ you too, get a therapist. You sound like the psychotic techno-doomerist version of the 'in this moment, I am euphoric' guy.

    Lotta words for trying to say I'm stupid, if you were smart you could have done it in at least two less yammering paragraphs.

    Blocking you anyway because I don't even want to know what you think continuing this convo looks like.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

    Well I guess you won't see it, but the block is mutual, you thin skinned, self righteous hypocrite.

    If anyone else reads this, I didn't and wasn't saying they are stupid. You can be a smart self centered prick or hypocrite. Arguably, casting yourself as a powerless victim instead of ultimately responsible for yourself in a situation where you do actually have the power to make a meaningful choice, arguably, that is a rather intelligent, indirect tactic.

    What I was saying was stupid was the reasoning they presented in support of their position.

    As well as the notion that more or less, capitalism stole their attention span and/or executive function.

    Even if that's true, that's an explanation for how an injury occured, not a plan for recovering from said injury.

    Funny they call me a doomer as they write hysterical explanations for accepting their apparently unavoidable fate.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    Or maybe you're just "normal", or to put it differently; exactly the kind of person why problems are allowed to continue to exist.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 month ago (6 children)
  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    Fluxer is still behind on Matrix with clients like Sable.

    Sable used to be behind on Fluxer, but Sable made a lot of updates over the months, and Fluxer is more or less currently focusing entirely on the mobile app, while missing some rather important key features, like Federation and E2EE for private chats.

    Fluxer is, however, far more easy to set up a self hosted server with. You cna get it done within an hour.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    I do agree, but the thing is vendor lock-in is real. Indoctrination by the powerful capitalists does wonders for masses to never leave the app at all. It really takes a changed mindset to switch to alternatives or to quit it entirely.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago

    Many people are exhausted, lazy, do not actually have any real principles or discipline, and are unwilling to endure inconvenience.

    Unreliable entitled self-centered hypocrites.

    I am glad you realized your former friends were lacking in character. It sucks to lose friends, but in the long run, bad people will just drag you down to their own level of miserable mediocrity.

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