Technology

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[–] blitzen@lemmy.ca 14 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (6 children)

We need to figure out how to pay for road upkeep somehow.

That’s not to say the way gas taxes are allocated to road maintenance now is perfect. Far from it. But on paper (at least where I’m from) that’s how roads are maintained.

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[–] _chris@lemmy.world 6 points 1 month ago (1 child)

Yeah, fuel taxes are supposed to pay for that. Given the state of the roads at least here in California, it sure doesn’t look like it happens.

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[–] blitzen@lemmy.ca 1 point 1 month ago

I’m also in California and would agree. The word “supposed” is doing a lot of work there.

On the other hand, with so many EVs in California we have to at least consider a part of that is because of the loss of gas tax income.

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[–] OrgunDonor@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago

A vehicle tax applied to everything, based on weight, once we have switched to a majority of EVs.

Heck I would happily pay for my bikes, apply it evenly between everything, and I will pay £1 per kilo a year. Less than £40 for my bikes, but not sure many car drivers are going to be happy paying £1500 - £3000+.

Sill, a good way to get the infrastructure fixed, and maybe more people onto public transport or bikes

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[–] yes_this_time@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

Depending on the jurisdiction.... Gas taxes go towards externalities largely. Roads are funded through general revenue. Perversely, those who don't drive subsidize drivers.

If I could wave a wand that I dont have:

Gas tax to cover externalities

Tire tax to cover externalities

Toll fees to cover usage.

Reduce income tax and increase social assistance proportionally.

Obviously that would be impossible to sell, but it would be more fair, and incentive better outcomes.

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[–] SmoothLiquidation@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago (1 child)

Sales tax makes sense to cover roads because a lot of the wear and tear on the roads is caused by the trucks that deliver goods. Even if you bike to the store, you are using the roads in that way.

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[–] yes_this_time@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago

Cars sitting in the garage have less impact than cars on the road though.

With tolls you can be more targeted. A road in a city has more cost (land and maintenance) and greater externalities (negatively impacts more people)

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[–] GreyEyedGhost@piefed.ca 6 points 1 month ago

If you think fuel tax is the majority cost of owning a car, you are going to be disappointed. And why shouldn't car owners pay to maintain the roads? And how do you think that happens? If it isn't taxes it will likely be tolls.

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[–] hanrahan@slrpnk.net 5 points 1 month ago* (1 child)

Toll roads for everyone?

id hope so, currently much of it comes from general revenue and second order costs arent factored in, so for example heath care costs subsidise road use.

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[–] InternetCitizen2@lemmy.world 1 point 1 month ago

Toll roads for everyone?

id hope

Monkey Paw

Granted but its because you now live in ancapistan

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[–] mesamunefire@piefed.social 5 points 1 month ago (3 children)

Where im at registration is a factor of 2/4x to make up for the fuel tax. Fun times.

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[–] tempest@lemmy.ca 7 points 1 month ago (2 children)

I mean yeah?

Roads are not free. Fuel was a reasonable proxy for usage previously. Without that it just leaves non drivers to subsidise driving.

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[–] mesamunefire@piefed.social 4 points 1 month ago (1 child)

Im not disagreeing, it just kinda sucks that im in a VERY low paying with VERY high taxes for our area. In theory that means we should be getting better services. But its quite the opposite.

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[–] tempest@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 month ago

True. However as has prices rise the 'savings' should increase further such that the tax feels smaller compared to the fuel 'savings'.

The other thing to consider is that high weight vehicles, think tractor trailers, but also EVs to an extent, do significantly more damage to the roads they operate on. I wonder if the proliferation of EVs will increase road wear.