262
Entry #1: the entire .ml user base (feddit.dk)
submitted 1 month ago by to c/politicalmemes@lemmy.world
294 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] 8 points 1 month ago (11 children)

So, to retread that comment, I said 2 important things:

  1. Organizing is the method by which to grow working class power and gain change

  2. Marxists do not emphasize voting because capitalism cannot be reformed into socialism from within

I fail to see how identifying a working strategy and arguing against a failed strategy is "demoralizing." If anything, knowing for a fact that organizational practice is key, effective, and practical is extremely uplifting. I am also explicitly in this comment against focusing on elections, not against voting in any and all capacities.

Perhaps you should stop spreading disinformation and sowing division by misrepresenting the views of Marxists? Then you likely wouldn't see such strong pushback from people correcting the record. It's the same tired strawman as those that say socialists support Trump because we also oppose the DNC.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 11 child comments
    •
  • [–] -4 points 1 month ago (10 children)

    I fail to see how identifying a working strategy and arguing against a failed strategy is “demoralizing.”

    With all respect I am not calling names to your views, even with their lack of apparent progress. DSA won a major election in NYC and is becoming more known. Even then many places don't have a DSA at all, let alone a PSL.

    You are at the end of the day ranting about people wanting the general public to vote as left as possible where they are. That is quite divisive.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 10 child comments
    •
  • [–] 11 points 1 month ago (9 children)

    Congrats to the DSA for winning the mayoral seat in New York City! The primary advantage of this is that it advertises the DSA as an organization that, at least nominally, supports socialism. Mamdani's position, however, helps highlight the futility of trying to change capitalism into socialism brick by brick from within, why electoralism is inevitably a dead-end, and the only utility it has with respect to socialism is advertising.

    You are correct to say that many places do not have a DSA, or a PSL. This is why the focus should be on grassroots organizing, not electoral campaigns. Imagine if the resources used by the DSA to canvass for elections were employed by disciplined cadre sent out to these areas to start new chapters! The PSL does this, but by nature of being a demcent party is smaller. The strength of the DSA is in numbers, the weakness is in always tailing behind when it comes to strategy and tactics.

    To the DSA's credit, internally there is widespread debate about reform vs revolution. If the DSA successfully converts to a revolutionary organization, then I will re-evaluate them.

    I am not "ranting about people wanting the general public to vote as left as possible." This, again, is a dishonest characterization of myself and the Marxist position on resource allocation in an organizational capacity. I am vocally opposing making elections the primary capacity by which an organization uses its resources and efforts, and instead advocating for making grassroots organizing the primary effort. This is the Marxist position, not what you have been presenting in memes and comments.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 9 child comments
    •
  • [+] -6 points 1 month ago (8 children)

    To the DSA’s credit, internally there is widespread debate about reform vs revolution. If the DSA successfully converts to a revolutionary organization, then I will re-evaluate them.

    Notice that your language states you do not support them. Hence my position never actually misrepresenting you or the broader .ml. Still the DSA is in better position to minimize harm in the mean time, and better position to grow in membership; which it will need for converting to a more revolutionary party.

    I am okay with the revolution not happening in my life time. It takes a while for culture to shift away from capitalism, but it would be nice to have some respite and as much breathing room while we get there. Currently .ml types are not really helping in that front other than assuring the rest of us that they are organizing.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 8 child comments
    •
  • [–] 11 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (7 children)

    You said Marxists "cannot spare a few hours to vote." I stated that the actual position is that Marxists emphasize the importance of grassroots organizing over focusing primarily on elections and trying to change the system from within. Marxists do not fight against reforms, we oppose methods that leave reform as the dead-end. The DSA, as a reformist party, cannot achieve socialism. This is why I do not support the DSA in its present iteration. Do I think they are as bad as the DNC or GOP? No. Do I think they are taking an ineffective path? Yes.

    You keep referencing a nebulous, vague, ".ml type." This "type" is a strawman you drag around and beat publicly, not an actual position, ideology, or political party. This is probably convenient for you, but it isn't particularly compelling of an argument. The Marxists are organizing, to the point that the state is cracking down on all manner of left groups.

    Critically, I am not okay if we do not establish socialism within my lifetime. Climate change is an active danger that stands to kill us all if we do not end capitalism's insatiable lust for profit over people, and imperialism kills millions while the US Empire still exists. We do not have the luxury of ineffective practice and taking it easy while climate change is on the clock and the global south suffers for our inability to do what must be done.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 7 child comments
    •
  • [+] -6 points 1 month ago (6 children)

    e do not have the luxury of ineffective practice and taking it easy while climate change is on the clock and the global south suffers for our inability to do what must be dons.

    I have been on lemmy for some time now. I see .ml in the exact same place. DSA has a major city. Even shit dems drag their feet where a repub would be a crusader. The way I see it is that it buys you time, so I hope all this organizing is actually going somewhere. Tho it does seem odd that for all the passion and urgency .ml really does not seem intrested in material results.

    I am not going to argue that the DSA is all that, but they show more people that socialism is not scary.

    Shit dems give less robust support to Israel. Did you know that is still helpful to those on the literal front line? Well thanks to .ml all or nothing means that Hamas now has to fight Israel at its strongest.

    I mentioned it before. Elections have consequences and it would be great is .ml had solidarity to help minimize the negative parts. All war is class war, and soldiers get dirty if they are in trenches. They also have to live to fight another day.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 6 child comments
    •
  • [–] 13 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    More vague character assassinations against ".ml," without actually engaging with the point: the Marxist position is that elections cannot bring about socialism, so the primary focus of any organization should be on grassroots struggle and growth, cadre training, and organizing, not on electoral campaigns. That's the point, that's the critique of the overwhelmingly electoral DSA. You keep beating this vague and impossible to actually define ".ml" because it's harder for you to criticize actual political positions and parties, and it's for those very same reasons that I reserve my critique for positions and parties as they actually exist, not vague ".world types."

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
    •
  • [+] -8 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    so the primary focus of any organization should be on grassroots struggle and growth, cadre training, and organizing

    All of those things can be done in parallel with election. Especially local ones.

    You keep beating this vague and impossible to actually define “.ml”

    Its not vauge. Your dogma makes you closed minded.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
    •
  • [–] 11 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    I never said resources cannot be allocated to both elections and organizing. If you do organizing work, you understand that your resources, both monetary and in terms of volunteer labor, are exceptionally limited. The position is that because elections cannot bring about socialism, the bulk of the work should be done on grassroots organizing and struggle.

    You keep insinuating a binary that nobody is arguing for, using a strawman you call ".mls." To begin with, Lemmy.ml is neither an ideology nor a party, it's a site commonly used by Marxists. Why not just say "Marxists" or "Marxist-Leninists?" Because you'd have to engage with Marxism and Marxism-Leninism directly, not through a strawman.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 12 points 1 month ago*

    I have been on lemmy for some time now. I see .ml in the exact same place. DSA has a major city. Even shit dems drag their feet where a repub would be a crusader.

    so first off .ml is a server for shitposting on the internet, not a political organization.

    i am pretty connected in my local milieu and all my marxist comrades have been working their asses off for over a fucking year protesting and pressuring electeds over the healthcare for trans kids in our state getting cut. the 100% democrat state government and affiliated nonprofits has been having them arrested. they prefer to comply in advance with the fascist ass republicans and sacrifice trans healthcare in the name of protecting institutions.

    the reason i have so much ire for the democrats is that the the time for action is now and they're all just fucking fundraising and keeping their heads down hoping a vote will fix things.

    having their cultists threatening to put me on a list cause they don't like my internet posting is just another fucking day in the life

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent