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[–] 2 points 1 month ago (106 children)

It's a good thing you didn't vote for kamala or Hillary though. Obviously trump turned out so much better /a

Her happiness and laughter would have been a real problem

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago (28 children)

    No, she helped put imigrants and people who smoked weed behind bars. They are both pro war, pro genocide, anti labor, pro big corporation, pro torture, etc. Not only are they in the same ballpark, they are playing for the same team. I never said they are the same, but they sure are similar.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (22 children)

    The DOJ isn’t supposed to be the president’s personal hit squad. That’s what Trump and tinpot dictators do. That said, the DOJ did go after Trump. He was indicted on the mishandling of classified information, election interference, and the Jan 6th case was the biggest case ever prosecuted by the FBI, and would have likely culminated in charges being filed against the ringleaders, including Trump. If only…

    It sure seems to be when it's convenient for them. Biden had the power to go after Trump, and decided to slow-walk the entire process. That's literally what the Executive branch does. It didn't even have to be a "personal hit squad" kinda thing, the crimes were public. Biden just didn't care.

    If only you knew how your democracy works and wanted to participate in it. The only way to vote against Harris was to vote for Trump. The only way to vote against Trump was to vote for Harris. You chose neither. You may as well have stayed home. Thanks for this bullshit. It’s really great, isn’t it?

    I do know how it works. It'd be nice if you read up on it. You see, our ballots have more than two options on who to vote for. You can even write in whoever you want! I was able to vote against both of them, because I read the ballot, and know how the process works.

    You can justify your support for child-killing and genocide any way you want, but your party is the one that threw away an easy win, and let Trump back in, all because they cared more about supporting said genocide. Don't be mad at me for fighting against Trump and genocide, be mad at them for not fighting.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (14 children)

    you want to feel good about voting more than you want to effect change

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (10 children)
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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (7 children)

    You said voting doesn’t work because I got the same outcome as everyone else.

    that's not what I said

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (5 children)

    yeah. I remembered exactly what I said, and you couldn't even quote it one comment later.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    rephrasing an argument to sound silly is the definition of a straw man. what I said is true.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago

    It shouldn't be, but it's still amazing to me that Libs have to keep creating arguments out of thin air, and putting words into other people's mouths. Of course, if they could stick to the facts and the discussion at hand, they woulnd't be libs.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago

    I don’t remember Biden endorsing ethnic cleansing of Gaza.

    That's becasuse you weren't paying attention. Why do libs think the things they ignore don't happen.

    Adults vote strategically.

    Indeed. That's why we kept telling the Democrats that they were going to lose. But they ignored us, and handed the presidency over to Trump.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (2 children)

    The slow walking happened because of the courts, or if you must blame the executive branch, because of Garland.

    Oh, you mean Biden's guy? Weird, how Trump, and Obama were able to do whatever they wanted with the DOJ, but Biden? Well, he's just a smol bean, an widdle guy, who has no power.

    You know what would have been faster? Not electing fascists.

    Well, no, a working legal system would have been faster. Trump was elected after those proceedings were dragged out. Of course, the Democrats also helped take "not electing facsists" off the table years ago.

    The DOJ is an independent federal agency. Only in a failed state does a politician wield the legal system against political opponents. Oh hey look! We’re sitting in the failed state you, yes you personally, voted for.

    No the DOJ is supposed to be an independent federal agency. It never has been though. And once again, I didn't vote for this. I voted against it. You repeatedly saying untrue things doesn't make them true.

    You don’t. There are actually three options and exactly three options in every national election.

    I do. I have already factually pointed out how you are wrong about that. Come back when you've read up on it.

    Nobody “learns a lesson” when you write in your mom for president.

    Yes, you are correct. The Democrats know why I don't vote for them, they just don't care. They'd demonstrably rather have Trump in office, than what I want. I didn't vote against them to "teach them a lesson". I voted against them because they are evil.

    The message you’re sending is, “progressives are too stupid to vote strategically, so by all means, try to appeal to more moderates.”

    No, the message I'm sending is "I don't want to bomb kids, support genocide, make healthcare the largest cause of bankruptcy in the US, support the police-state, support rapists, support ICE, support openly corrupt politicians, and many of the other things that the Democrats and Republicans both stand for."

    What we could do, if you weren’t standing proudly in the way, is make the GOP irrelevant by consistently turning out for Democrats, then primary the Democrats from the left to split the party into its pro-business neoliberal wings and its pro-labor progressive wings.

    Well, no, we can't do that. The Democrats have already made it clear that they'd rather lose to the GOP than let progressives have a shot. But you'd have to actually pay attention to know that.

    Unfortunately for us, and especially unfortunately for children in Gaza, Lebanon, and Iran, you want to feel good about voting more than you want to effect change.

    No, that what Democrats do. They "feel good" about voting for people who bomb kids, because they buy into the lie that Democrats will do better, despite all evidence to the contrary. I vote based on what I want to happen, not on what professional liars tell me that they will or won't do.

    Let me say this again: tens of thousands of children are dead because you wanted to feel smug about voting against both major parties. Good fucking job. A real hero. I bet they’re erecting a statue to you in Gaza City right now out of the rubble you buried children under.

    No Tens of thousands of children are dead because the Democrats cared more about Israel, and their rich friends, and the military. But of course, I won't expect you to understand that, as it would involve reading, paying attention, and introspection.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

    I don’t interact with people who are too self important to vote against ethnic cleansing and fascism.

    Yet, presumeably you interact with other liberals? Weird.

    Enjoy your clear conscience as entire villages in Lebanon get wiped out. You know who would still be alive if you voted strategically to defeat fascism? Two hundred Iranian schoolgirls. Good job.

    How would they be alive? Trump would have still won. I also like how you ignore the children that Biden and Obama killed. I guess kids don't count when it's the Blue Team dropping the bombs.

    I guess child rape wasn’t even bad enough to suck it up and do your civic duty.

    As explained multiple times, I did my civic duty and voted against the child rapist. But the Other-Rapist decided that child-rape wasn't worth putting Trump in prison.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (74 children)

    It's a good thing Kamala didn't compromise on supporting genocide. Otherwise she might have won and fewer dead children would have been a real problem.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (7 children)

    People like you no doubt would have simply found some other way to attack her...

    Yeah, because she was a monster for multiple reasons. She could have catered to the voters and at least pretended she wasn't evil. But that was a bridge too far for her.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (6 children)

    Because of 1 issue.. Israel (and yeah, we'll ignore the fact she was a public prosecutor that fought to put shitty people behind bars)

    Trump?

    1. Determined to be a rapist
    2. Tax fraud
    3. Tried to overthrow the government
    4. Had MANY rape allegations against him
    5. Had made many public racist statements.
    6. People who knew him well said "DO NOT VOTE FOR THIS GUY"
    7. And, he still supported Israel

    If Trump was in the military, he would be committing war crimes (oh wait, he's doing that now), and raping civilians (he did that too)

    Whereas, at least Kamala spent her life as a public prosecutor. It could be argued she did a lot of good too. Trump has ALWAYS been evil, and has never done anything that helped anyone except himself

    Even if you include Israel, Trump was still infinitely worse at that point, and it was CLEAR you'd be voting in a rapist if you didn't vote against him

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago

    The rapist Joe Biden

    She promised a lot, but that's what politicans do: They lie. When later asked about Trans people, she said that she would "follow the law". She had a chance to support trans people, but, when given the opportunity, she backed down.

    Yes, pro torture. She supported ICE, DHS, and cops. She said that she was going to be tougher than Trump on the border. She proudly stood behind Biden when he tortured people.

    Yes, I can see that you are lost. Paying attention helps keep that from happening.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    So she had to support genocide because otherwise people like me would have found some other way to attack her? Do you have any basis for that assertion? Again, you don't know how I voted.

    I only posted because your post shows you think thousands of dead children is trivial compared to Trump putting his name on a monument.

    And what are you claiming that Trump done at that point that was beyond that Israel?

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 child)
    1. January 6th for starters
    2. He was convicted of tax fraud before the election
    3. He was determined by courts to be a rapist (E Jean carroll) before the election.
    4. He had MANY other rape allegations against him
    5. He claimed foreigners were "eating dogs and cats" (which was clearly BS)

    I'd argue that a guy who was determined to be a rapist by courts, convicted of tax fraud, suspected of being a pedophile, attempted to overthrow the government is worse. It doesn't even matter where you stand on the israel issue. This guy preys on women. Kamala was wrong for supporting israel imho, but, the two aren't even remotely in the same ballpark. Trump is pure evil and has always been

    If he qualified for the military, he'd be the first to commit war crimes (which he's now doing), and attacking civilians (which he did do)

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago

    You didn't answer my first point at all.

    And your list still pales in comparison to what Israel had already done by that point.

    Of course Trump is far worse, I've never said otherwise. At least you agree that Kamala was wrong to supporting Israel, which is very different than your original post.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago (41 children)

    Who said anything about "going hard against Israel"? And it's not like there's a report that contradicts your claim, right?

    You have no idea how I voted. Op suggested that people didn't vote for her for trivial reasons, which trivialises the real documented reason of expressly supporting a genocide.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    She would have pushed back when it was politically convenient, if it became politically convenient.

    I worked for the DoJ under her. The corruption was there before her and got worse under her. She is not the saint you, for some reason, think she is. An important thing to keep in mind is that simply because they've been demonized by the right does not somehow make them a good person.

    Case in point: Gavin Newsom.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (26 children)

    No, most people saw it as genocide. She just pretended it wasn't happening because it was inconvenient for her.

    I don’t think Harris would have encouraged genocide. I think she would have even pushed back somewhat against human right violations eventually.

    Biden never did, in fact, he openly supported it. Why would she be any different? Since when has Democratic leadership cared about human-right violations?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago* (24 children)

    Maybe in your circles most people already saw it as genocide - but that’s simply not true for most most people. And of course that also applies to Biden as this was before Israel went undeniably psycho.

    You can keep saying "Nah, it's not true", but that doesn't change the fact that it was true. It was pretty clear they were committing genocide.

    But lets take your argument in good faith, lets pretend that Biden didn't know they were commiting genocide: He still knew they were bombing innocent people, raping women, shooting kids, torturing, kidnapping, and starving people. Yet he continued to give them weapons, and support anyway. Is this your hero? the guy who raped women, bombed kids, and gave support to rapists, torturers, kidnappers, etc?

    I don't know why your so quick to defend him, but I have a few guesses.

    But I suspect you can’t tell the difference, and so you are just as happy with Trump telling Isreal to wipe out the Palestinians and build casinos in Gaza, as with Harris likely following an (inadequate) diplomatic push to respect human right. If so good for you, I’m glad you’re happy with the result.

    Well, if you had bothered to read what I've written, you'd know that I'm not happy with the result. I guess you are right, that I am "just" as happy, since Harris was pretty clear that she was going to do the same as Biden, and Trump. So yes I'm very unhappy about the result, just like I would have been very unhappy about the result if Harris had won.

    She never had any intention to push for human rights, considering that she stood proudly behind Biden as he violated human rights, and made it very clear that she would keep doing the same things that he did.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (22 children)

    Given that the options were Trump or Harris...

    Luckily for me, that's not a given. Which is how I was able to vote against both of them.

    ...if you really think they are the same, then you really are ok with Trump being the outcome because you didn’t care.

    No, I'm not OK with Trump being the outcome, because I care. If you had bothered to read what I've written, you would have known that.

    It boggles the mind that you would see them as the same, that you can’t recognize that even though they both are bad, that one is clearly worse than the other. But there we are.

    Well, it will please you to know, that I don't see them as the same. Nor have I ever claimed that. But please, continue telling me what I think and see. I'm sure that'll win people over, instead of providing things like data, or facts.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago* (20 children)

    Only Trump or Harris could have won. You’re being willful ignorant if you say otherwise.

    Well it's a good thing that I never said that. I always find it so telling that Libs have to keep making up beliefs that I don't hold, and putting words in my mouth.

    Voting for anyone else was helping Trump win. Own it, already.

    I will not own a lie that I don't hold nor believe. You are the one lying. But I wouldn't expect a Lib to own up to it, that's kinda your whole thing.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (18 children)

    I like how libs cant come up with a coherent argument, nor logical consistencies. Then they turn around and call others stupid.

    There's a reason BlueMAGA became a useful term.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (16 children)

    I don't see the problem here. There were more options than Harris and Trump, but only Harris or Trump was going to win. Those two concepts are not exclusive in any way.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (14 children)

    Your the one without any logical consistency. Your the one defending terrible candidates, and a terrible party that handed the election over to Trump. You openly lied about how elections work, and didn't know what your party had done. Your the one who presumeably voted for a pro-genocide, pro-rape candidate. I don't see why Libs keep blaming the results of their actions on others.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (12 children)

    Yeah, that's pretty simple. And if it had any relation to the real world, it would be a good analogy.

    But A) I would not be responsible for it, B) I didn't know who anyone voted for, and C) If you add up all of the 3rd party voters, and gave them to Harris (which is a big assumption), she still would have lost.

    You can keep making up obviously flawed scenarios where you blame the voters, but I prefer to focus on the real-world scenario, and blame the people with the power, the money, and the platform. They ran terrible candidates, who ran terrible campaigns, and openly ignored what the voters wanted.

    But you decided to (presumeably) sacrifice your morals, and vote for genocide. And all you got out of it is this shitty Trump presidency. I don't understand why you blame the people who had no power to stop that, instead of the people who had the power to stop it, but chose to keep supporting a genocide instead.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (10 children)

    But if you’re saying your ignorance for the possible outcomes being either Harris or Trump is some kind of shield to your stupidity, you’re wrong.

    I never claimed ignorance about that at all. Unlike you, I did my research. You were the one who didn't know how the voting system works. I'm pointing out how bad your analogy was.

    So the simplified example I gave is a direct analogy to reality at the time and what everyone with half a brain cell knew.

    Sure, except for it was completely off. Which I guess says a lot about your self-admitted half-of-a-brain cell.

    What you didn’t know goin into the election was how close it would be and whether throwing your vote away would matter.

    I knew it was about a 50/50 shot, as long as Harris kept up her terrible campaign. I also knew that she could have easily won, but chose not to, so that she could keep supporting genocide. Luckily for me, I didn't throw my vote away, and I used it as efficiently as I could.

    It could have been the deciding vote, but you still chose to let Trump win.

    No matter how many times you lie about this, it remains untrue. I didn't 'let' him win, as I voted against him. I also never had the deciding vote, which I always correctly knew I wouldn't have.

    You don’t get a purity prize for voting for a candidate that can’t win...

    Well it's a good thing I wasn't going for a purity prize. I was going for "anyone who was against genocide, the bombing of kids, rape, and torture."

    ... - no one cares - it just meant that you effectively helped Trump.

    Well, most American's don't care, just like you don't seem to care, as long as the genocide keeps going. I'd recomend you look up how bad genocide is, because I feel like if you learned about it, you'd change your mind and become anti-genocide, instead of your current position of pro-genocide.

    And, as has been repeated many times before, I didn't "effectively" help Trump, or anyone else win. Your continued lying doesn't make it true.

    As such you own that.

    I would own that, if I had done it. I own the fact that I voted against Trump, and I own the fact that I once voted for Obama, to my great shame. But he bombed the fuck out of kids, just like Biden did, and just like Harris made clear that she would also continue to do.

    And since you’re likely to make the same stupid decision in the future, you’ll be responsible for that too.

    And I'll hapily own my responsibility for voting against genocide, something that seems to irritate you. But of course, we can easily guess why that is.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (8 children)

    Well, your explanations only work as long as you keep lying about how the process and execution of elections work. I would understand, if you could explain it without lying. But I wouldn't expect someone who defends rapist-supporters, and genocide-supporters to act honestly.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (6 children)

    I have already explained it. Maybe you could try and explain why you think it doesn’t help Trump by not voting effectively against him?

    You lied about it, but I've not seen you explain anything. I already what I did, and why I think what I did went against Trump, but that would require you to argue in good faith to follow along. My vote went to someone other than him, thus, I voted against him.

    Once you grow up, you might understand how you’re the one that supported Trump the pedofile, so maybe look in the mirror before you start throwing shade.

    If I had supprted Trump, that would make sense, but since it's blatently false, it doesn't make sense. But not making sense is what I would expect from someone who supports rapist-supporters, and genocide-supporters.

    I've looked in the mirror, and I grew up and stopped supporting child-killers. But since you are in favor of child-killers, I'd encourage you to do the same.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (4 children)

    Just because you don’t want to believe something doesn’t make it a lie.

    You are correct. The fact that it's factually untrue, and you know it, is what makes it a lie.

    So now I’m thinking that you supported Trump with your failure to effectively vote against him on purpose, at least subconsciously.

    So I supported him by... not being able to stop him? By that logic, you also supported him.

    That’s a bit pathetic tbh.

    Genocide and rapist-supporter says wut?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (2 children)

    Yes I did try to stop him. And no, I didn't throw my vote away. More factually untrue statements, AKA: lies.

    But of course, based on your logic, you are also a pedo-helper since you didn't try to stop him either.

    But, by real-world logic, you are also a genocide-supporter, and rapist-supporter, and have yet to deny that. I wonder why......

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (6 children)

    I guarantee you're wrong about how I voted. And why are you moving the goal posts? Harris stated clearly that she wouldn't change anything when dealing with Israel and she wanted to make Israel the most violent army in the world, so it's very likely that the situation in Gaza and Lebanon would be very similar. It was already a disaster when Biden was president.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    You're right about that one phrase, I mixed it up with something else. She did state that she would continue to support arming Israel unconditionally.

    Everything else I said still stands, and you haven't addressed any of it.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (1 child)

    Yes.

    Look, we had pretty much a textbook trolley problem where it was objectively correct* to pick the track with fewer casualties. But now that the train has gone, we need to lay responsibility squarely with those who tied the casualties to the tracks in the first place.

    (*One reason for choosing the other track was to give the democrats their own trolley problem, choosing between getting elected or leaving casualties on their track. And they chose the latter. Now we're seeing more progressive candidates emerge so arguably it worked. Was it worth the cost? That's harder to decide since we'd have to estimate the long term costs of a hypothetical scenario.)

    But regardless of what the objectively correct choice was, belittling those who disagreed by trivialising their reasons or absolving the architects of the dilemma of responsibility is just wrong.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (18 children)

    Well, she didn't have to go "hard against Israel". She could have just gone hard against genocide, which was the popular position at the time. Also, how helpful did that funding end up being in the end? Doesn't seem like it was worth it.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago* (12 children)

    Hamas was firing rockets daily at Isreali civilians.

    And why was that? I think that was bad, but libs always seem to ignore the part where Israel tortured, enslaved, raped, killed, colonialized, and stole the land from the Palestinians.

    So yes, everyone saw it, but many chose to ignore it.

    It was only after Trump actively encouraged Netanyahu to ‘wipe out the Palestinians’ that it got much worse and clearly genocidal.

    No, it was like that before. Yes, it got worse under Trump, just like it would have gotten worse under Harris, based on the evidence that she herself provided.

    But if you are happy with that, you do you, I guess.

    I'm not happy with it, which is why I fought, and still fight, against it. But here you are, defending the genocide, and the people who support it. I wonder why that is....

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (10 children)

    Well, if you support the people, and the party who support genocide, can you tell why some might think you are supporting genocide?

    I’m telling you that at the time of the election, many people still supported Isreal defending itself while condemning genocide.

    Yeah, and today many people still do. It didn't make them the majority then, and it doesn't make them the majority now. It was obvious to see, but neither Biden nor Harris cared, and they went to great lengths to make that super clear.

    When you purposefully confuse the genuinely fucked up actions of Israel but in the context of a decades long struggle with rockets, suicide bombers, etc; with the present day actual genocide - you are both diminishing the current atrocities and also rewriting history on how we got here..

    Israel has been clear about their goals for a long time. I'm not diminishing the atrocites, you are. You are the one defending the genociders who raped, pillaged, stole and murderd.

    There was a clear choice to lessen the harm that came to the Palestinian people during the last election, and if you failed to make that choice then no, you didn’t fight for Palestinians, you fucked them over. Own it.

    I would own that, if I had done that, just like I own that I voted for child-murdering Obama on his first campaign. But I learned my lesson then.

    I made the right choice, the "lets not bomb kids" choice, but neither the Democrats or Republicans were running that as an option.

    Of course, something tells me that, if you voted for Harris, you won't own up to the fact that you voted for genocide, because that would require introspection.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (8 children)

    If you didn’t vote for Harris, you effectively voted for Trump...

    Well, luckily for me, I know how elections work, and that is not how they work. I also didn't vote for Trump or Biden in the last election, does that mean you think I "effectively voted for Biden" ?

    If you really think Harris would have been as bad as Trump then I guess you can be happy Trump won.

    Well, if you bothered to read any of my posts, you would have known that I'm not happy that either of them won. But it seems that you'd rather just yell at people for things you misunderstand.

    Like I say - you do you. Can’t cure stupid.

    Is stupid the person who came to this conversation with data, facts, context, and historical knowledge? or the person who kept saying "Nuh uh, nanananana I'm not listening!" ?

    I believe you can cure stupid. That's how education works. That's why I gave you facts and data, someting I'm still waiting for you to provide.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (6 children)

    The facts are simple: Harris better than Trump.

    Marginally, yes.

    Those were the only two actual options...

    I like how you say the "facts are simple", which I agree with, but then completely get the simple facts incorrect.

    If you didn’t vote for Harris, you helped Trump. This is very simple math.

    It is indeed simple math, which is why I don't understand how you can't figure it out. I was able to, and did, vote against them both. I proudly didn't help either of them. You, however, presumeably voted for more genocide, and more child-killing. Funny how you never seem to want to talk about that, but instead keep getting angry at me for voting against those things.

    That’s it. If you are smart enough to realize Harris better than Trump, but didn’t vote for Harris, then you are an idiot as you helped get Trump. It doesn’t get any simpler.

    Thats not true at all, but, as simple as it is, you still don't seem to get it.

    If you still don’t get it, there’s no hope for you.

    Well, you are kinda right: There is no hope for me to change to supporting a group of people that bombs kids, support rapists, and support genocide. I'm pretty stuck on those being bad things, and I'm not going to support them, like you did.

    Unfortunately for me, I still think there's hope for you. I think that, once you calm down, and try reading what people say, and learning about the facts, you will change your mind. I think you are just mad that Trump is in charge, as I am. But you aren't currently willing to look at the reasons why Trump is in charge, and instead are lashing out at the people who want to keep him and his ilk out of power.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (4 children)

    Only Trump or Harris had a chance.

    Yes

    Voting for anyone else was the same as not voting, and that was the same as not voting against Trump and that was the same as helping Trump.

    Funny, you still haven't thanked me for voting for Biden in the previous election. It's almost like you aren't serious about this belief.

    There is no hope for you if you keep helping who you don’t want to win.

    Then it's good for me that I don't do that.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (2 children)

    I have to thank you for doing the logical best thing for yourself?

    Because you blame me for voting for Trump, when I didn't vote for Trump or Harris. Since I didn't vote for Biden or Trump, then, according to your logic, I voted for Biden.

    And why would your calculus change for Harris vs Biden? Is it a misogyny thing?

    My calculus didn't change at all.

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