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Linear scales as explained by lemmy (crazypeople.online)
submitted 1 month ago by to c/memes@lemmy.ml
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A linear scale and even the 2d "compass" is only useful for the most basic introduction to political parties but sometimes ya gotta meet people where they are at 🤷‍♀️

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[–] 18 points 1 month ago (11 children)

Why the ‘national socialists’ came for the communists and socialists first.

Do you actually think nazis were on the left? Because that's what horseshoe theory you are defending is all about. The centrist social democrats are the ones that facilitated the nazis rise to power because they didn't want to side with the communists and socialists.

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  • [+] -6 points 1 month ago

    "Do you actually think nazis were on the left?"

    if i thought that, i wouldn't have said that they came after the left.

    everyone thinks i'm anti-left because of the weird american interpretation that animal farm = 'communism bad,' and not that collective efforts can be derailed by failures of communication or education.

    the failure of progressive efforts is that most progressive groups can be turned on each other because they can't communicate or separate patterns from substrate.

    'divide and conquer' is really successful, whether in animal farm or in basically every historical example of oppression.

    again the 'first they came for' poem i alluded to with "Why the 'national socialists' came for the communists and socialists first."

    what this means is that the name 'national socialist' was obviously completely removed from the concept.

    again, like the pigs in animal farm becoming removed from the concept of animals by the end of the book. why the book is an apt reference to actual systems, although more specifically around the unfortunate failures of early russian efforts.

    again, the oversimplified american interpretation of 'communism bad' mostly comes from a thorough lack of reading comprehension, and memetic/socialized reification of that misinterpretation.

    so again, stating that i was not calling the nazis progressives when suggesting that their name was being misused through blatant oppression of socialists.

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  • [+] -14 points 1 month ago (9 children)

    The Nazis we’re economically left of the US in many ways, for what it’s worth.

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  • [–] [S] 15 points 1 month ago (5 children)

    What?

    Nazis spent a lot of money on military because they wanted to do imperialism to grow their economy. They ran deficits to fund war industries (kind of like the US) and were betting on winning to pay them off (US oil wars?)

    There was certainly centralized planning, but the US isn't exactly a free market. The government subsidizes industries in the states too.

    The Nazi government developed a partnership with leading German business interests, who supported the goals of the regime and its war effort in exchange for advantageous contracts, subsidies, and the suppression of the trade union movement. Cartels and monopolies were encouraged at the expense of small businesses, even though the Nazis had received considerable electoral support from small business owners.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Nazi_Germany

    Sounds pretty familiar, and I haven't even mentioned the use of prison labour.

    The big public works projects were already planned by the time they took power and were beneficial for the war effort anyways. The states were embarking on similar projects at the time as well, so I wouldn't say they were further left even if we do credit them with continuing.

    Nazis banned trade unions. Nazi Germany sought to eliminate foreign completion. They supported privatization. Banks were privatized under them. Utilities, manufacturing, railways, public services etc all had at least some privatization.

    Companies traded contributions for favor (sound familiar?)

    What am I missing that makes them more economically left wing?

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  • [+] -6 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    They had paid vacation time enshrined in law. Free or highly subsidized vacation programs that allowed workers to go on real vacations. There were massive infrastructure jobs programs which led to almost zero unemployment. Nationalized health insurance.

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  • [–] [S] 10 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    I've never heard of the paid vacation time enshrined in law, especially as work contacts were overseen by labour trustees appointed by the DAF (German Labour Front). I don't know everything, of course.

    They did have the Strength Through Joy program where they provided incentives like vacations, and Beauty of Labour which was supposed to make work places better, but

    While it encouraged Germans to view cleaner work environments as important and provided guidance on how to make improvements, it did not provide funds to make necessary changes. Paying for improvements remained the responsibility of factory owners and managers, or workers themselves.

    https://germanhistorydocs.org/en/nazi-germany-1933-1945/german-labor-front-poster-beauty-of-labor-1934

    These were programs designed to get buy-in despite the deterioration of workers rights, including hours of work and pay after the Nazis came to power.

    The infrastructure program was the Reich Labour Service. It was a mandatory program, and workers lived in camps working long hours with low pay.

    Unemployment was illegal, not abolished through the creation of good jobs. In 1938 Aktion Arbeitsscheu Reich arrested the "work shy" and send them to camps.

    Germany had nationalized health insurance since 1883.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    I’m unsure how that is a retort to any of that being left of United States policy…

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  • [–] [S] 3 points 1 month ago

    None of it is left wing economic policy. Strength through Joy was funded by wage deductions and operating tourist facilities in occupied territories, not employer contributions.

    The two things that could (at a stretch) be considered left wing social policy (Strength through Joy and maintaining the universal healthcare that existed prior to their rise to power) are fascist. Neither were for public benefit. Strength through Joy infiltrated all aspects of recreation and social life, enforced the states moral codes, and served as propaganda. The other was eugenics.

    Mandatory labour programs are not economically left or right.

    That leaves us with labour unions? The US allows them but Nazi Germany did not.

    This is a pretty good example of how useless the political compass or scale are 🤷‍♀️

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  • [–] 6 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

    There were massive infrastructure jobs programs which led to almost zero unemployment.

    Lmao! They had low unemployment because trying to conquer Europe takes a lot of work. Notably, in spite of the low unemployment, the working conditions were shit and the workers could not organize due to violent suppression.

    You might as well argue that slavery is progressive since it means low unemployment.

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