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Expedition 33 Director Says Sandfall Isn’t Making Its Next Game to Please Fans: “Maybe people won’t like it. That’s life.” (otakukart.com)
submitted 1 month ago by to c/gaming@beehaw.org
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[–] 12 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (19 children)

I think that a good example of this, even when the studio consistently delivers good games, is Supergiant. Their games are amazing, but it feels their games are converging to a safe spot and becoming more samey.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    Technically Supergiant makes game that focus on the narration, they never set out to make any special gameplay-wise other than the delivery of the story.

    And also the fact that no one remember Pyre.

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  • [–] [S] 3 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    Pyre

    Honestly I don't remember ever hearing anyone mention Transistor since it released either. Hades definitely proved that they aren't one hit wonders.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago (14 children)

    Those games were never about brave innovation to begin with.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (12 children)

    Sandfall CEO isn't saying they're going to be incredibly innovative either. They're saying they'll make the games they want to make and I'd argue the first 3 Supergiant games followed the same logic, they made the games they wanted to make and while being samey they're also very distinct to a point where me enjoying Bastion didn't translate to me enjoying Transistor or Pyre.

    I'd say they didn't start to feel really safe and samey until Hades when they started to incorporate player feedback into their development cycle. I'd even go as far as to say most players don't want brave innovations and when given a choice they'd gravitate towards safer games. If brave innovations were appealing Noita would've been far more popular. Noita is such an innovative game you don't even understand the scope of its innovation until you're 60-100 hours in. I don't even know if there's ever been a roguelite metroidvania before Noita.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (11 children)

    I don’t even know if there’s ever been a roguelite metroidvania before Noita.

    That's just because your knowledge is lacking, not because Noita is the first roguelite metroidvania.

    I don't even play the genre and off the top of my head I remember A Robot Named Fight and Sundered releasing in 2017.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago* (10 children)

    Your smugness aside that just further proves my point because those two games are far less known that Noita.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (9 children)

    Dafaq does this have to do with anything 😂 That doesn't mean you get to dream up alternative history while fellating your favorite indie game, post it on a public forum, and expect not to be called out.

    Shouldn't be hard to praise your favorite game without making shit up.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago* (8 children)

    Need an English lesson? Can you tell the difference between "this is the first Roguelite metroidvania" and "I don't know any other game like this?" the difference is one is stated as a fact and the other is an opinion. Do you also need telling which of the two I used? I'm half convinced you do because you already missed the whole fucking point I made before.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 month ago (7 children)

    Need an English lesson? Can you tell the difference between “this is the first Roguelite metroidvania” and “I don’t know any other game like this?”

    Noita is such an innovative game you don’t even understand the scope of its innovation until you’re 60-100 hours in. I don’t even know if there’s ever been a roguelite metroidvania before Noita.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 month ago (6 children)

    You are nowhere near intelligent enough to be this smug. And since you can't tell the difference I guess I do need to further educate you. I presented an opinion because I genuinely didn't know the games you mentioned existed. And Noita itself wasn't relevant to the point I was making and I'll prove it right now.

    I’d even go as far as to say most players don’t want brave innovations and when given a choice they’d gravitate towards safer games. If brave innovations were appealing Sundered would’ve been far more popular. I don’t even know if there’s ever been a roguelite metroidvania before Sundered.

    It's almost as if Noita wasn't even that relevant to the point I was making because the point stayed exactly the same with a different game. I used Noita because it was one of the most unique gaming experiences I've had in the last decade and while it's not massively popular it's at least somewhat known so there's at least a chance of someone understanding my point when using Noita as an example. I don't know if I can say the same about the two obscure games you referenced.

    Now if you were even remotely sharp you would've noticed I left out one statement from that quote.

    Noita is such an innovative game you don’t even understand the scope of its innovation until you’re 60-100 hours in.

    I removed a part of the quote because I don't know shit about Sundered. I can't make that statement about Sundered. But I can about Noita because I've played the game and I'm confident in making that statement. However, I won't bore you with the details of why I'm confident. It's clear you don't care so I won't bother.

    Now do the thing your type always does. Throw out your sassy one-liner how your above it all or how dumb I am or the dozen other variations in the same style, because the purpose of it isn't to say anything meaningful, it's so you can get in the last word. Let's just get this over with.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (5 children)

    Your point lacks any nuance that makes it worth discussing. Claiming innovation "Should equate to sales; otherwise, we can conclude people aren't interested in innovation." excludes many relevant factors like affordability, production quality, accessibility, gameplay density, genre market share, and most importantly: fun.

    If you stopped to think for a second before you started jerking off to Noita, or as you embarrassingly insist "your completely random stand in for unpopular innovation that totally could be any other game and not the one you like and clocked more than 100 hours in", you could've realized many innovative, genre-defining games sold really well. In fact, a common theme among new IPs that sell well is they came up with a new gameplay loop that resonated with many.

    Furthermore, isn't Noita estimated to have sold more than 2 million copies on PC alone? That's pretty fucking good for a 2D indie game, which completely obliterates your point, but hey, you don't know WTF context means so you just spout whatever bullshit you "feel" is right without giving a second thought to its validity. Even if I bite and run with your bullshit narrative, Noita is such a poor example of whatever bullshit you dreamed up and trying to prove.

    You could just admit you went overboard with your baseless narrative and move on, but na-uh, hubris has to get in the way, doesn't it?

    Oh, and let me address your Supergiant nonsense while I'm at it: Hades sold better than Bastion, Transistor, and Pyre because they weren't as polished, replayable, or fun, but no, let's just ignore all that and claim lack of innovation is the only selling factor here because having a nuanced take gets in the way of a finely crafted pile of bullshit.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (4 children)

    Your point lacks any nuance that makes it worth discussing. Claiming innovation “Should equate to sales; otherwise, we can conclude people aren’t interested in innovation.” excludes many relevant factors like affordability, production quality, accessibility, gameplay density, genre market share, and most importantly: fun.

    Is that why you spent the first two comments attacking my choice of example instead of saying anything about the point I was making?

    If you stopped to think for a second before you started jerking off to Noita

    And again back to Noita? Did the game hurt your feelings or something? Why are you so obsessed with it?

    or as you embarrassingly insist “your completely random stand in for unpopular innovation that totally could be any other game and not the one you like and clocked more than 100 hours in”, you could’ve realized many innovative, genre-defining games sold really well. In fact, a common theme among new IPs that sell well is they came up with a new gameplay loop that resonated with many.

    And for every genre defining innovative game there's at least 3 other games that sell as well if not better because they're safe bets. Clair Obscure was a great an innovative game and has sold 8 million units in total. Oblivion remaster, which is literally Oblivion reskinned, sold over 9 million within the first 3 months after release. Battlefield 6 sold 7 million units within the first 3 days and the latest COD doesn't have exact sales numbers but had over 50 million players within the first month. You explain to me how COD, which is hardly an innovative series now, was 6 times more appealing to gamers than Clair Obscure, which was a great and innovative game?

    That's my point with Noita as well. Noita at it's core it not a bad game, which is why it has sold well. But because it has made certain innovative design decisions it will never sell as well as something like Stardew Valley, which is very much the opposite of innovative because by the admission of the developer they've effectively cloned harvest moon.

    But that's the nuance you claim is lacking so continue ignoring the point I'm making and instead attack Noita for the fourth time for some weird reason.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (3 children)

    And again back to Noita? Did the game hurt your feelings or something? Why are you so obsessed with it?

    Nah, I just find your ignorance and self-absorbtion aggravating. You're not unique in that BTW, almost every discussion revolving around indie games eventually devolves into people needlessly making up some kind of mythology out of sheer ignorance.

    Oblivion remaster, which is literally Oblivion reskinned, sold over 9 million within the first 3 months after release.

    Hell yeah it did. Oblivion was an innovative game people grew up with, it's still fun to play, and exciting to experience in better graphics and quality of life improvements.

    You explain to me how COD, which is hardly an innovative series now, was 6 times more appealing to gamers than Clair Obscure, which was a great and innovative game?

    I can't with these arguments 😂 The cultural cache and marketing reach of COD alone puts it in front of many more eyeballs. Great innovative game or not, how's a new AA studio gonna put together the budget compete with a franchise that can afford Superbowl TV spots?

    That's my point with Noita as well. Noita at it’s core it not a bad game, which is why it has sold well. But because it has made certain innovative design decisions it will never sell as well as something like Stardew Valley, which is very much the opposite of innovative because by the admission of the developer they’ve effectively cloned harvest moon.

    OMG, Stardew Valley is one of the most accessible games of all time, in one of the most accessible genres of all time. How are you gonna compare it to Noita and blame the lower sales numbers on innovation?

    Your argument does not hold an ounce of water, and mostly just stems from your unreasonably narrow-minded, naive approach to this whole discussion.

    Also, why the fuck are your circling back to Noita now? I thought it's irrelevant to the discussion, or isn't it? 😂

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (2 children)

    Hell yeah it did. Oblivion was an innovative game people grew up with, it's still fun to play, and exciting to experience in better graphics and quality of life improvements.

    What's the point of creating new innovative games when you're happy with a reskin of an old game?

    I can't with these arguments 😂 The cultural cache and marketing reach of COD alone puts it in front of many more eyeballs. Great innovative game or not, how's a new AA studio gonna put together the budget compete with a franchise that can afford Superbowl TV spots?

    And yet can beat games like Borderlands 4?

    OMG, Stardew Valley is one of the most accessible games of all time, in one of the most accessible genres of all time. How are you gonna compare it to Noita and blame the lower sales numbers on innovation?

    Because that's my whole point. Innovation inherently creates friction for players because they need to do something they haven't done before, so players gravitate towards easily accessible safer games which is why (when made well) will sell significantly better than innovative games.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (1 child)

    What’s the point of creating new innovative games when you’re happy with a reskin of an old game?

    You have to be ragebaiting at this point 😂 There clearly is room for both to exist. Why do you need me to tell you that?

    And yet can beat games like Borderlands 4?

    Oh, the game that released with so many performance issues platforms started allowing refunds past their typical refund window, and a toxic publisher that went on a self-sabotaging campaign and asked players to refund the game if they can't afford the latest GPU on the market? Yeah, we're still trying to find out why this game didn't sell too well 😂

    Because that’s my whole point. Innovation inherently creates friction for players because they need to do something they haven’t done before, so players gravitate towards easily accessible safer games which is why (when made well) will sell significantly better than innovative games.

    OMG, accessibility has nothing to do with innovation. A slow-paced farming simulator is inherently more accessible than a 2D action platformer just by virtue of its pace alone. You can still innovate while making a slow-paced game, and I don't even know why you need to be told something so basic.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

    I think the one ragebaiting here is you. I have no idea what your point even is anymore so I'm not even going to bother to respond until you've stopped beating around the bush and actually made a comprehensible point.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago

    Yeah I would have to agree. I think they are all very good games but gameplay-wise they are hardly crazy inventive.

    And even saying it is repetitive is a bit weird when it is the first sequel they have done :D

    I would say their narrative and their characters have a certain style. Quite introspective and interested in changing and connecting for sure. But otherwise the games feel like evolutions at least and mostly just as distinct from each other.

    They all have a good polish when they come out though and I like how they iterate on feedback.

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