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Mini, spoiler free review of Dungeon Crawler Carl, by Matt Dinniman (lemmy.ca)
submitted 2 months ago by to c/sciencefiction@lemmy.world
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Carl is outside in his boxers trying to get his girlfriend's cat out of a tree when everything with a roof on the planet is destroyed and the smaller number of survivors are made to compete in an intergalactic dungeon game similar to D&D. If this sounds kind of dumb, I described it correctly; it's kind of dumb. It’s also fairly entertaining and has a good amount of heart. People who have played any sort of role playing game, like World Of Warcraft, will probably be extra amused.

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[–] -5 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (39 children)

So? Nothing about it is realistic, science fictions requires a basis of reality, it’s supposed to be something you can see your world in or part of the galaxy. Along those lines.

Hard science fiction is when it tries to fit into our current physics and accepted notions.

Edit: It’s not more science fiction than Star Wars and Star Trek, and both of those are considered “science fantasy”, I don’t think it reaches even that level. It’s fully in fantasy, don’t let the “earth” and “human” aspects conflate it.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (28 children)

    In other hobbies they call people like you gatekeepers.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (27 children)

    For providing information to people who may not know better?

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago (26 children)

    The fact that you're not hearing the condescension in your own comments is a real big red flag.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago* (25 children)

    Just because you don’t like an answer or the informations someone is providing doesn’t mean that person is being condescending. I can’t defend my point? These are the takes by authors like Asimov and Pratchett, they’re the ones that created and defined these genres.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago* (24 children)

    DCC and Star Trek are no less science fiction than a time travel story or one that relies on time travel, faster than light travel, races of aliens that can change their shape, or humans that can change their gender at will.

    I'm story you think you have drawn the one true line, but it speaks to a flaw in your character not a flaw in others.

    They're writers not gods. Prachett was best friends with a rapist.

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  • [–] -1 points 2 months ago* (1 child)

    They’re fantasy with scifi aspects, I covered this already.

    A scifi book about a detective is still a scifi before a detective novel, a detective novel with scifi aspects, is a detective novel first. These distinctions are important.

    There’s a hierarchy, and a proper way books are presented( disagree if you want.

    What relevance does someone friends have to the topic at hand?

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  • [–] -2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (21 children)

    Star Trek is just a space fantasy. Klingons are orcs, Vulcans are elves, teleporters are magic, phasers are wands, and telekinesis is spells. It’s how the stories are told and material within that dictates its genre, not a few aspects like “technology”. Technology has never meant “scifi” technology exists in regular fiction and even non-fiction too. Space ships are part of our current history, a story with it doesn’t become “sci-fi” just for that reason.

    It’s a fantasy in a space setting. Not a scifi in xxx setting.

    For “true” scifi the science and technology are supposed to be a believable extension of our universe, not some magical hand waving away fantasy mumbojumbo. So most of your suggestions fall into the fantasy aspect, most of those can only be explained by hand waving, there’s no basis on reality.

    For FTL, it can be wormholes, instead of magic engines.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (20 children)

    By your description 99% of SciFi is fantasy. You're just cherrypicking what you feel is "pure" sci-fi and what isn't.

    The Expanse, The Culture novels, Foundation, etc... is just fantasy by your description. I could use your rules to pick apart most sci-fi novels and explain how they are just fantasy.

    A little piece of life advice, unless you're in chemistry or metallurgy, purity tests always make you the bad guy.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago (19 children)

    The expanse is scifi, it uses believable extensions of our knowledge, they still have thrust mass, they still have deceleration. Thats probably one of the best examples to use as as scifi actually.

    Haven’t consumed the culture.

    And if you’ve read Foundations by Asimov and his other books, it’s all explained how the weirdness is an extension of current knowledge (60 years ago). Asimov created the genre, and he’s written nothing that’s fantasy.

    None of those use handwaving to explain the “technology”.

    Unlike DCC, unlike Star Wars, unlike Star Trek, unlike MCU, etc.

    Read Asimovs definitions on what the difference between fantasy and scifi, he’s the one that pioneered the genre and was editor on countless magazines and other written media.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (18 children)

    Magic alien space goo, psychics, etc...

    Your distinctions are arbitrary and purely a function of how you feel about certain properties.

    Enjoy your gatekeeping purity tests, I hope they bring you comfort.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (17 children)

    They aren’t, they are the foundational and distinguishing differences between the scifi and fantasy genres.

    Fantasy doesn’t explain the “magic” or the “tech” it’s all handwaved and is just there as part of the story.

    Scifi on the other hand, the technology is the foundation of the story, and the rest is built off of that.

    Both can use parts of each other, but how the story is built is which dictates which is the primary category it should be in.

    If you can’t understand something, and someone is trying to explain it, does that make them gatekeeping?

    So using those non arbitrary definitions, it’s pretty easy to see DCC is fantasy, along with Star Trek and wars

    Foundation, expanse, Robots, they all fall into the other.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (12 children)

    As a writer of sci-fi/fantasy stories, this level of willful ignorance makes me laugh.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago* (11 children)

    What are the differences than?

    These are the differences according to multiple veterans (literary the OG inventors of them…) of Sci fi and Fantasy writing. As well as definitions available on every library as well as Wikipedia and other available sources. We are just supposed to take your word over the proven professionals?

    What are your qualifications other than self pronounced author? Usually when someone just interjects that they are lawyer, or a doctor, or other professional, without providing a detailed response, is just making stuff up.

    Because the difference surely isn’t “it has spaceships”, that’s a gross oversimplification.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago (10 children)

    I think rather we need to go back and have you explain where you got these definitions because I've read a great many books of both genres and your definitions don't fit most of them.

    Fantasy doesn’t explain the “magic” or the “tech” it’s all handwaved and is just there as part of the story.

    Lots of fantasy magic systems have explanations. They just tend to be fantastical explanations.

    Scifi on the other hand, the technology is the foundation of the story, and the rest is built off of that.

    You count Star Trek as fantasy despite it fitting this description to a tee. Everything about the setting and the stories they tell are predicated on their living in a technologically advanced society. Replicators, transporters, warp drives, holodecks, self-aware AI, all technologies that make Star Trek possible.

    Both can use parts of each other, but how the story is built is which dictates which is the primary category it should be in.

    Who says it needs to be put in a single primary category? Why can't we have a sci-fi/fantasy genre in and of itself?

    Basically, before you ask for my qualifications, I'm gonna need you to start making a single lick of sense in the first place.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago* (6 children)

    In Star Trek, nothing is explained, it’s all handwaved and is just there as backround to the stories. You said it with your own words “the setting” that’s not the story or the backround of the universe now is it? You contradict yourself in your own point. Just because there is spaceships doesn’t mean it’s scifi, please provide an actual source that supports this exact statement. No one should take you for your word, especially when there is now a posted source that contradicts your statements.

    That’s why it’s fantasy. Yes advanced technology exists, but how did they get there from where we are? If you need to suspend belief, it becomes fantasy instead of sci fi

    I like their description though, it is just space elves and Klingons.

    It just sounds like you self publish and call your stuff whatever you think will sell. Why should we listen to you? There’s sources and credible authors who support here views. What are your credentials, if it’s self published, you’re nothing more than a troll.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago (5 children)

    In Star Trek, nothing is explained

    Yes it is. It's not always explained well, and it doesn't always make sense, but the key technologies of the setting such as transporters, replicator, and warp drives all have very reasonable explanations for how they work. This argument makes no sense on its face.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (4 children)

    How is that technology fundamental to the story? It’s not an either or thing like you’re treating it.

    It just existing is not enough, just like magic being explained (in your other comment) doesn’t suddenly make it scifi. It’s how it affects the story, it’s not scifi if it’s just the setting.

    This isn’t some weird take, it’s literally the cornerstones of what defines scifi. Scifi relys on its foundation of science and our understanding to tell stories about futuristic human concepts. Please provide anything to the contrary, the balls completely in your court. Why does this need to be asked twice? Is it something that you can’t do…? Because you’re making shit up…? From your other comments I know you’re capable of quoting comments in your reply. Why ignore this one?

    You ask for sources but can’t provide your own?

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  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago* (3 children)

    How is that technology fundamental to the story?

    ....Have you seen Star Trek before? Like, ever? Any of it? They literally made an entire show out of the question of "how did they explore before they got this tech, and how did they get it?"

    This conversation is over.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

    I thought of a way to dumb it down. I’ll give you two excerpts, one is how fantasy would explain something, and the other scifi. I’m going out of my way to do this, so I would appreciate some sources okay?

    Fantasy.

    Alberto woke up, he turned the light on and started his coffee, the news came on the vidscreen.

    Scifi.

    Alberto woke up and stretched his arm, in doing so it activated the electromagnetism in his arm, his species has this unique trait. As he gets up and walks through the door, the coffee machine had already gotten the wake up from the lights being turned on and was pouring itself. As he stared out through the panoramic window, it suddenly shifted to a breaking news bulletin.

    Please tell me you can tell how one is hand waving, and the other isn’t. The first one, the technology isn’t there, maybe it might pop up later as an explanation. The second, the technology is being explained to build the story and flesh it out. Because that’s what the story is going to be mainly about.

    Scifi has a hard time, because they need to waste a lot of words describing how mundane things aren’t so mundane. Fantasy gets this pass.

    StarTrek literally has a term for its handwaving, technobabble. If you’re using technobabble, it’s not scifi, that’s textbook handwaving.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

    Yes I’ve watched Star Trek, that’s why I can discuss that what your saying isn’t true and you’re making it up.

    What are your sources…?

    For someone demanding them from someone, you’re surely are ignoring providing your own. Can’t discuss something in good faith? Just throw out you’re a professional and balk when asked to reciprocate? There’s a term for this, trolling.

    And retconning stuff is obviously horseshit, that shouldn’t need to be explained. How many stories and media came out before they thought of that topic? And it’s not even fundamental to the story, or it would have been at the start of the creation of the story. You can’t explain something in the last story… and go… tadaaaaaaa.

    So please, kindly provide some sources, or get lost, you’ve no credibility, and are losing it with each response.

    A few stories by a few authors that touch on being scifi, doesn’t make the whole series that, this seriously isn’t what you’re suggesting are you? So if they made a horror, Star Trek is wholly a horror series now? Because that’s the logic you are applying wholesale here.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago*

    So… no…? You don’t have the decency to provide sources yet you just demand them from other people?

    You’re a real piece of work, you are self published aren’t you? And you’re presenting yourself as a professional? There’s a term for you people in real life, it’s called a hack. Can’t cut it in the real world where things matter and there’s standards, so you just do what you want and make everyone else look bad. Does that actually make you feel better about yourself?

    Enjoy being a troll and pretending you are the professional you aren’t!

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago* (2 children)

    Magic, no how wonderfully explained, is not an extension of our universe.

    I told you my sources?

    You’re given the oversimplified modern version for mass appeal. That’s not how libraries and other places categorize the books.

    We do have that genre? Science fantasy, that was covered already… you really aren’t given your ale dmucj merit here.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    You’re given the oversimplified modern version for mass appeal. That’s not how libraries and other places categorize the books.

    Then they should get with the times, which do change.

    We do have that genre? Science fantasy, that was covered already…

    No, that's science fantasy, not sci-fi/fantasy. The image you posted is just sci-fi. You're not making whatever point you think you're making.

    you really aren’t given your ale dmucj merit here.

    Well thank goodness for that!

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

    And insult the creators of the genres by making their craft out to be “pew pew lasers and spaceships?”, there’s a reason why the genres were created, if we just want to make things as simple as easy as possible, just call everything fiction, no need to describe it more. I’m sure you can understand how that’s a terrible idea…? Why even have the genres, if you’re just gonna ignore them anyways?

    Sure, let’s let everything be meaningless so nothing matters, that’s what you want with the world?

    There’s also reasons why there is standards and they don’t just let anyone publish stories in magazines and other established prints. Editors exist so they can separate the chaff from the wheat. If you’re just gonna ignore these standards. It shouldn’t be a shock when you’re rejected.

    You provided nothing to show you have any merit to decide what is and isn’t right, the fact that you’re parading around you’re an author means nothing. Especially if you don’t respect the established covenants of writing particular genres.

    If you self publish, of course you can just incorrectly refer to your stuff as whatever you want, especially so it just sells.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    Using only excerpts from the books themselves. Explain to me how the proto molecule works without one iota of handwaiving.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago* (2 children)

    That’s the combining with the fantasy genre, but everything in the slow and otherwise WAS explained with physics. Not well in the show, but the books yeah.

    You’re also ignoring the key basis of the story being the technology and other parts. That’s not gonna help you comprehend it.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago (9 children)

    Sorry but to most people star wars is scifi. I appreciate that you're correct, but words only have so much value as their ability to be understood, so sometimes wrong words are right.

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  • [–] -4 points 2 months ago* (8 children)

    No, it’s distinctly fantasy because of the force. It’s not even up for debate, the genre “science fantasy” was essentially made for Star Wars/Trek because they’re fantasy, but had so many parts of science fiction along with it.

    If “most people” are flat earthers, that doesn’t suddenly make them correct.

    As you said, word have meaning, but they ALSO evolve over time to accommodate new ideas, as well as local dialects that bleed out in common vernacular.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (7 children)

    And that's great, but outside of the sci-fi fantasy niche people do not refer to anything with a space ship as science fantasy. Pop-Culturally space ships and lasers is sci-fi.

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  • [–] -2 points 2 months ago* (6 children)

    Maybe because they don’t know better…?

    If someone is gonna keep using the word wrong and never get told it’s wrong, how are they supposed to know?

    This isn’t even a nerd only or a niche thing.

    The MCU isn’t suddenly science fiction because one person has a space ship, what kind of logic is that?

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  • [–] -1 points 2 months ago (5 children)

    Yes, the distinctions between sci-fi, science fantasy, epic fantasy, etc are lost on a lot of people. I can appreciate that posts about DCC are not particularly relevant to the /c/sciencefiction community. I think that some movies in the MCU are explicitly categorized as science fiction on platforms like IMDB and Netflix, for example Guardians of the Galaxy or Thor: Ragnarok. The rigid definition of sci-fi that people use in the literary world are often ignored at the scope of mass appeal.

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  • [–] -3 points 2 months ago* (4 children)

    So quite perpetuating it lmfao. People like you, who know “better” who keep using the terms wrong are why it’s still happening.

    Why is someone providing some information to others so upsetting to you?

    Every square is a rectangle, but call it one, and you’ll be corrected. It’s not a rectangle in this case, it’s a square.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (3 children)

    The phrase has two definitions, someone is trying to share their opinion on a book in a place they thought was relevant, the book is listed as Science Fiction on goodreads. It just comes off as gate keeping.

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  • [–] -2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

    Sure, we can also just call it fiction as well because it’s words on a page that’s not historical. Same logic as space ships = science fiction. Being more descriptive is better.

    Notice how your links even list a few of those as “fantasy” first?

    I also didn’t tell them they couldn’t post here, so how on earth do you get gatekeeping from that? You are seriously upset about some information exchanged online?

    It’s a fantasy with scifi aspects, it would be science fantasy before being purely “science fiction”.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    I don't know else of value you could be trying to communicate in /c/sciencefiction by saying "DCC is Fantasy, not science fiction." other than "This doesn't belong here"

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  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago*

    Because it is…? I’m not going to report the post that it doesn’t belong, even though it probably doesn’t. It allows a discussion to be had so people can learn. Or that’s the hope.

    How is providing information, “not adding value”? By that metric, what do you think you were adding but attempting to correct me incorrectly? The information you provided was proven wrong by your own source for that matter. You’re also off arguing about my point of Star Wars, not even the original. So go off mate.

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