zalgotext comments on clever

[–] zalgotext@sh.itjust.works 1 point 2 months ago (9 children)

American cheese is a combination of Jack and cheddar cheeses that is specifically designed to melt

You just basically described Kraft Singles, the first ingredient of which is cheddar cheese.

Kraft Singles are literally just cheddar cheese, milk, calcium/sodium phosphates, and trace amounts of colorings and preservatives. The phosphates are emulsifiers that allow the cheese and milk to mix, and are what gives it its melty texture. They really aren't any different than the stuff you can get at the deli counter, from an ingredients-list perspective.

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[–] atomicbocks@sh.itjust.works 1 point 2 months ago (8 children)

Kraft invented American cheese but Kraft singles are not cheese. Traditional American cheese uses sodium citrate, not phosphates and is typically white not yellow. I’m not sure you actually looked at the ingredients list before making this comment because they are very different.

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[–] zalgotext@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (6 children)

What's your issue with using sodium/calcium phosphate over sodium citrate? They all perform the same function in American cheese. Toward the bottom of this page there's a table of ingredients found in American cheese, all three are included in it.

Saying Kraft Singles aren't cheese because the FDA's legal definition categorizes it as something more specific puts you in the same category of people that insist that tomatoes aren't vegetables because botanically they're defined as fruit. Technically correct, but overly pedantic and unproductive when looking at things through a culinary lense.

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[–] atomicbocks@sh.itjust.works 0 points 2 months ago (5 children)

First, if we’re going to be pedantic then tomatoes are berries not fruits.

And for the record the argument here is that kraft singles aren’t specifically American cheese. That the FDA doesn’t count them as cheese at all is part of the argument because American cheese still counts as cheese. But the point was that kraft singles aren’t even as good as real American cheese.

Phosphates, like nitrates, are not great for humans.

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[–] zalgotext@sh.itjust.works 1 point 2 months ago (4 children)

Kraft invented American cheese but Kraft singles are not cheese.

atomicbooks

Sounds like the argument you're making is that Kraft Singles aren't cheese.

Even if your argument is just that Kraft Singles aren't American cheese, that would be a tough argument to support, as Kraft Singles fit the definition and culinary use of American cheese exactly.

Calcium phosphate and sodium phosphate are perfectly safe unless consumed in quantities that would be unreasonable to achieve by just eating food.

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[–] atomicbocks@sh.itjust.works -1 points 2 months ago (3 children)

No, see now you’re being just as pedantic as what you tried to call out with the tomato thing. Just because tomatoes are culinarily used as vegetables doesn’t make them not berries, and just because kraft singles are culinarily used as American cheese doesn’t make them real cheese.

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[–] zalgotext@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 months ago (2 children)

How is that being pedantic?

I'm not claiming tomatoes aren't berries, or fruit, I'm saying that those labels aren't useful when talking about tomatoes in a culinary sense. Just like how the label "pasteurized prepared cheese product" isn't useful in a culinary sense, because it exists purely as a legal/regulatory term.

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[–] atomicbocks@sh.itjust.works 0 points 2 months ago (1 child)

Because you’re picking apart my argument about two different points and trying to put them against each other.

The bottom line is Kraft singles aren’t cheese American or otherwise because they watered down, milked down whatever you wanna call it. And it doesn’t matter if kraft was on a mission from God whenever they set out to make kraft singles that they added enough milk to no longer make it count as cheese means that it’s no longer cheese end of discussion. If you think that the definition is wrong for some reason then that’s a different discussion, personally I don’t because those regulations have been in place for decades, long before the current bullshit.

On the other point, kraft singles are a shitty version of American cheese if you even want to call it that. Adding extra milk and less cheese didn’t make it better. And that’s before we talk about the fact that there’s a whole lot more disposable plastic in the singles. There’s a reason that Kraft still sells a deli select version of their singles that’s real American cheese and not the singles bullshit.

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[–] zalgotext@sh.itjust.works 1 point 2 months ago

I'm picking apart your argument because it doesn't make any sense lol.

Kraft singles aren’t cheese American or otherwise because they watered down, milked down whatever you wanna call it.

To steal a quote from the article I linked earlier, saying American cheese isn't cheese because there's extra non-cheese stuff in it is like saying meatloaf isn't meat.

they added enough milk to no longer make it count as cheese means that it’s no longer cheese end of discussion.

Obviously not end of discussion. You keep falling back on the FDA's legal definition of cheese, which is fine if we're talking about cheese in a political/economic/regulatory context, but to use that definition as justification to make the blanket claim that "American cheese isn't cheese end of discussion" is asinine. That's not me being pedantic, that's me pointing out the reality that FDA legal definitions don't really apply outside of their intended context.

If you think that the definition is wrong for some reason

It isn't wrong, I haven't claimed that. I'm saying you're using that definition in a context it's not intended for.

kraft singles are a shitty version of American cheese if you even want to call it that.

I've made no assertions about the quality of Kraft Singles, and I respect your opinion if you think they suck. That has nothing to do with whether or not it's cheese though, do I don't know why you brought that up.

Adding extra milk and less cheese didn’t make it better.

I don't know why you're so hung up on this whole milk thing. You know milk is like, the main ingredient in cheese right? Why is it such an issue for cheese to contain a cheese ingredient?

And that’s before we talk about the fact that there’s a whole lot more disposable plastic in the singles.

I don't know why we would even talk about that, the amount of disposable plastic a things is packed in has nothing to do with whether or not that thing is cheese.

There’s a reason that Kraft still sells a deli select version of their singles that’s real American cheese and not the singles bullshit.

The reason is because Kraft Singles are a less expensive product aimed at a different market than Kraft Deli Deluxe.

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[–] ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de 1 point 2 months ago

They aren't cheese simply because they are 48% cheese instead of the FDA requirement of 51%. Kraft could easily tweak it that tiny bit so it would be "real" cheese, but then it wouldn't be as nice in that grilled cheese sandwich.

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