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Romania spent about 1.5 million euros on shooting down Russian drones in a few days (unn.ua)
submitted 3 months ago by to c/world@lemmy.world
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[–] 15 points 3 months ago (14 children)

I understand that we all are targets of propaganda. But the facts laid down in the article are just common sense for everyone that has interest in military things. Russia doesn't care (they didn't even before the war - intruding into NATO airspace to measure reaction times was a common occurrence back then, although i am sure NATO did something similar), drones are cheap and violate airspace, Air-to-Air Missiles cost 10-100 times what the drone costs.

I can't see your earlier responder, which means he is from the fully Putin-pilled .ml instances - the only thing outside of a handful of single users i have on my blocklist. I don't see what he wrote, but I advise you to take whatever they told you with a grain of salt - these are the instances that have proven themselves again and again as authoritarian sockpuppets.

I follow what happens on the battlefield in Ukraine on the regular, and the difference between the two sides is sourcing. If Ukraine claims to have destroyed an armored assault (just as they did 2 days ago), you get video evidence of the whole thing delivered with it. (could still be faked, i agree). Russia on the other side claims they have taken over Kostyantynivka months ago - such claims simply do not survive contact with reality, because in that case they would be hitting their own positions with glide bombs on purpose.

This leads to an easily understandable consequence: If one side only lies (or has delusions), and the other side tries to be as transparent as they can in a war situation, independent reporting will take communication from Ukraine a lot more serious than the unverifiable lies the Kremlin produces. Add to this that free press in Russia is defacto non-existent (the so called "mil-bloggers" of russia are very often FSB assets and just another arm of the Kremlins propaganda machinery designed to collect data on the most dangerous part of civilians to the regime - those that are interested in the war and might disagree with it), while it definitely exists in Ukraine; This situation makes russian sources nearly unusable.

It is not the fault of Ukrainian news outlets that Russian reporting can't be used to offer a different viewpoint - that well was poisoned by Putins clique themselves.

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  • [+] -15 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (13 children)

    You are still presenting a very partial viewpoint, where Ukrainian outles are considered fair and attempting to be transparent while the other sode doesn't. I'm very interested and study "military things" and i have studied this conflict for about 7 years now, so i hope i can bring a useful viewpoint. If you actually want to study a conflict or conflicts in general, it's fundamental to be as close as poasible to the sources and unserstand the problem of uncritically accepting the viewpoint coming from one of the two belligerants. Labelling people from an entire instance "putinist" is already a red flag for me. I've been called putinist a million time just because i invite people to have a more accademic and historical-based approach to this and other conflicts. My opinion of Putin doesn't seem to interest to anyone, if i don't glorify Ukraine and agree with every piece of propaganda they push, i'm definitely with the ebemy.

    A great example is the Institute for the study of war, which is the main source for western media about Ukraine. They are a huge propaganda machine that sell themselves as neutral but it's an absolutely pro-ukraine source. I read their reports almost daily and they tought me a great deal of the power of propaganda in war times. A great example is the recent worldwide celebration for Russia apparently not gaining as much terrain as they used to and even Ukrain gaining some. This is all over the news, but when you go look it up you find out that this reversion on the battlefield happen when the ISW added a new item to their maps: "russian infiltrations". Now if they see only few soldiers advancing in an area is not considered an advancement, but an infiltration, which doesn't get reported in the maps (edit: i meant to say in the final calculation of the kilometers lost/gained, not maps). No newspaper seems to be interested in pointing this out to clarify the data they give us, the same way as nobody mention that the sources of the ISW are for the almost totality either the Ukrainian defense ministry or telegram channels affiliated with combating units. None of these sources will give reliable or objective information.

    I understand not trusting russian news, i don't trudt them either, but i found way more interesting to stufy the discrepancies in the sources we are presented as reliable.

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  • [–] 16 points 3 months ago* (12 children)

    Dude, the allegiance of the .ml instances to Putins and Xi's authoritarianism is not some kind of secret or a bias of mine, it's been in the open for years now and is well documented. Look it up at yepowertrippinbastards@lemmy.dbzer0.com - it's mostly not even worth posting about it anymore there because it's simply a matter of fact and expected of them. Still, i have to recognize that the lemmy devs, even if they are seemingly incapable of separating funds for lemmy.ml and lemmy development, keep the politics out of the platform itself - i applaud them for that, even if their financial decisions mean i cannot provide funds for them.

    Lets switch it up: What other viewpoint would you like to be represented? The reporting i watch is very critical about the situation regarding Fedorov getting removed, it's calling out drone strikes on gas stations in russia with civilians present as war crimes, it's calling for investigations into the corruption that seems to surround Zelensky. It doesn't get more transparent than that in a war situation.

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  • [+] -13 points 3 months ago (11 children)

    It doesn’t get more transparent than that in a war situation.

    But all the things you listed don't seem to have anything to do with the progress in the battlefield, but more with the politics that surround them. There are way more diverse interests when it comes to that. It's not as important as showing Ukraine as the winning part in the war, which is fundamental to keep the public opinion on their side and therefor continue the stream of funds and armaments toward Ukraine.

    I don't know what reporting you "watch" i just hope it's not some random youtuber, but instead you are using accademical sources or at least their methodology.

    What other viewpoint would you like to be represented?

    Don't get me wrong. Anyone who studied history and a bit of military history know that propaganda from both sides is core to every single conflict that ever happened in the world. It's natural and expected that Ukrainian propaganda is pushed ad nauseam to all allies countries in the conflict. This worked very well, because if you dare to doubt it you are immediately called a putinist, so the conversation die there. Look at propaganda posters from WWI and WWII of all sides and you will see a lot of similarities with today's narrative or even better, look how Napoleon was presented in european propaganda in the 19th century.

    Personally, i would really like that people would learn how to inform themselves, and i would like that more voice would be given to accademic experts or people that study war for a living. Instead we hear only politicians and what is convenient to hear: a lot of drones appear across Europe, everyone immediately assume they are Russian and that's what get pushed in the news for days, but then when the military apparatus (so relatively disconnected from the political goals of the country) of some of the most anti-russian countries, like Latvia and Poland, say that the drones are actually almost entirely Ukranians, that information get posted only on specialised outlets or maximum a couple of lines in a single newspaper to never be mentioned again. Nobody seems also to care that several intelligence agencies of multiple countries (again Poland and Latvia in primis) keep saying that there are no signs of Russian preparing an attack to Europe, but still, this is not the message that we receive by our politicians and news, because it's not politically convenient. Instead anything that gives the feeling that Russia could attack europe any second get amplified out of proportions. Isn't the aim more than clear there?

    People are not making informed choices and the information they receive is carefully crafted to go in a single direction. As i said this has been normal in every conflict that ever happend. Also the thing of thinlking ours is good propaganda and theirs is bad propaganda is regular stuff during a war. I'm personally very worried because nuclear war is right behind the corner.

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  • [–] 10 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (10 children)

    Ok, i took your word until now, now i want proof.

    there are no signs of Russian preparing an attack to Europe

    It is a fact that Russia has been attacking and influencing the politics of it's neighbors for the last decades, and dark money channels to far right parties in many EU countries have been exposed; It's hard to believe that they didn't eye the possibility of grabbing land of european countries before they got bogged down in Ukraine.

    like Latvia and Poland, say that the drones are actually almost entirely Ukranians

    For this i demand Sources. You seem to have them, so it shouldn't be an issue to provide?

    Also, I started out with the superior sourcing of battlefield reports, and then delivered evidence to support that there are youtubers with millions of subscribers out there that are critical of what is happening in ukraine, even if they still want them to win. I covered both the political arena and the battlefield itself.

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  • [+] -6 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

    For @LeoDalPozzo@infosec.pub, as Wildmimic doesn’t even see me, so blind he is.

    As I said, even if you go out of your way and now start to provide sources, after this guy spewed all the indoctrinated bullshit about this war without providing any themself, it‘s more likely you will get more excuses, more downvotes and more bad faith answers.

    There are analysts, not necessarily communist, that still try to understand the dynamics of international geopolitics, that will say, that this is a proxy war fought between NATO and Russia (and China), you‘ll need to zoom out and leave the pure militarist perspective.
    Btw, one of the triggers is actually calling it a proxy war, but since this guy blocked the whole instance my account is on, he‘ll be spared.
    Dunno, there‘s John Mearsheimer, Jeffrey Sachs, German Foreign Policy, Neutrality studies, Breakthrough News, maybe Novara News. Either way, you’ll have a hard time finding reliably consistent analysis on mainstream media.
    But IMO, you will get a better understanding of these conflicts and what‘s up with the people around here, if you open up towards Historical Materialism, which is the Marxist scientific approach to economy and class analysis.

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  • [+] -9 points 3 months ago* (8 children)

    It is a fact that Russia has been attacking and influencing the politics of it’s neighbors for the last decades

    Every single country in the world has been doing this since the invention of politics. the US has literally military bases in most countries, but you don't seem as worried about them despite they are the one who waged infinite wars for the past 70 years.

    It’s hard to believe that they didn’t eye the possibility of grabbing land of european countries before they got bogged down in Ukraine.

    It's easier to believe when you look at the history of Russia, their claims (believable or not, their claims is their justifications toward their own people, so they have to stick to those). the fact that attacking an alliance of 30 countries is insane and unsellable to the Russians, that a War with europe will cut completely disrupt commerce and that will be devastating for the Russian economy itself, resulting in making Putin weaker and he definitely doesn't want that. Some more: Russia has spent billions in resources to build economical ties with Europe, like the north stream. It's unplausible that at the same time they plotted to attack the very alliance they spent decades building encomic ties with.

    For this i demand Sources. You seem to have them, so it shouldn’t be an issue to provide?

    Your skeptic tone seems to give for assumed that my sources are unreliable. Fair enough, i just wish you would apply the same skepticism also to the news you like. Anyway:

    The damaging of the residential building in Wyryki caused a scandal domestically, with Prime Minister Donald Tusk being accused of attempting to cover up that the damage was caused by a Polish missile; furthermore, President Karol Nawrocki and the National Security Bureau had allegedly not been informed of the Polish origin of the missile.[42]

    While there is no doubt that some Russian drones are jammed and fall on NATO or EU countries. There is no proof, only political speculation, about these drones being sent on purpose by Russia to attack. What we know for sure is that, so far, the drones that created real damages were all Ukrainian. You are free to justify this, but changing the facts because more convenient that way is propaganda.

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  • [–] 8 points 3 months ago (7 children)

    There is a difference between foreign politics and using Cambridge Analytica style tactics on the population of a neighboring country. If you are so aware about propaganda, you should also see the difference in scale here. I live in one of those countries, and family members of mine have been fucking brainwashed by this style of propaganda to the point where they support far-right parties which want Ukraine to just roll over and die.

    I am no friend of the USA. But nothing the USA does makes anything Russia is doing any better - An Eye for an Eye is fucking stupid, regardless of context - it only serves to prolong conflicts. Since NATO is allied with the USA, joint military operations on EU soil are a matter of fact - at least until Trump finally withdraws from NATO, which is something i can't wait to see.

    They are already saying they are fighting NATO! They proclaimed that pretty early into their SVO. They are also telling their population they are fighting a "shadow cabal", something like the crap the nazis said about the jews. I ask you: If a regime stoops so low to use the same crap that the nazis did to manufacture consent, is it different from the nazis?

    The economic ties were used to make us addicted to russian oil and gas; it nearly worked. The pricing increases for energy and heating were a major factor for the increasingly high polling of far-right groups who promised to get us cheaper carbohydrates. I say that the economic ties that Russia prepared (UNDER PUTINS WATCH) were nothing else than an attempt to make sure Europe stays silent when Russia uses their military to expand once again.

    Regarding your citations of drone strikes:

    On 23 March 2026, a Ukrainian drone crashed near Lake Lavysas in the Varėna district of Lithuania. The Centre for Eastern Studies reported that the drone likely veered off course during an attack on the Russian oil terminal in Primorsk, possibly as a result of Russian electronic warfare measures.

    In Estonia, one drone struck the chimney of the Auvere power station, about 2 km from the Russian border. The Estonian government said there were no injuries and no damage affecting the station's operation.[3] According to the Centre for Eastern Studies, the incident did not disrupt energy transmission, and the intended target may have been Ust-Luga.

    In Latvia, a drone crashed in the village of Dobročina in Krāslava Municipality. The Centre for Eastern Studies said the Latvian and Estonian incidents were likely caused by similar factors and that the drones may also have been intended for Ust-Luga

    On 29 March 2026, Finnish authorities reported a suspected territorial violation by unmanned aerial vehicles in the southeast of the country. The Finnish Air Force identified one of the drones as a Ukrainian AN-196, while two drones fell in eastern Finland near Kouvola.[13][14] The following day, Reuters reported that the Ukrainian drone found north of Kouvola had carried an unexploded warhead, which Finnish authorities destroyed in a controlled detonation. Ukraine apologised for the incident and said that no Ukrainian drones had been directed towards Finland, attributing the deviation to likely Russian electronic interference.[15]

    Electronic warfare can make drones go off course. Thats nothing new, and Russia even jams areas where they shouldn't be doing it; Russia is trying to fuck with GPS all over Europe, and Kaliningrad is a big fucking ECM station. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tz23G_UXCGA

    Regarding the Missile Strike: Would that AMRAAM have been fired if Russia hadn't sent 20 Drones into Polish airspace via Belarus? 1,2,3 drones can be a mistake or caused by jamming, 20 are a planned operation.

    Your sources have been read, and were found to be lacking to support your standpoint. You may try again, but this time try to be less pro-russia in your arguments, because there isn't any difference between someone who is pro-russia and a fucking nazi to me, and i do not converse with nazis, i punch them.

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  • [–] -4 points 3 months ago (6 children)

    There is a difference between foreign politics and using Cambridge Analytica style tactics on the population of a neighboring country. If you are so aware about propaganda, you should also see the difference in scale here.

    You are using one of the biggest AMERICAN scandal to say that Russia is doing the same. Do you see the issue here?

    Electronic warfare can make drones go off course

    Yes, that's exactly my point. the drones that we are being told are just a signal of an impending military attack from Russia, most of the times are just jammed Ukrainians drones

    Regarding the Missile Strike: Would that AMRAAM have been fired if Russia hadn’t sent 20 Drones into Polish airspace via Belarus? 1,2,3 drones can be a mistake or caused by jamming, 20 are a planned operation.

    Again you are just parroting a viewpoint that it's just an opinion and pure speculation. No fact proves that it was a deliberate attack.

    They are already saying they are fighting NATO!

    NATO countries are providing to Ukraine weapons, ammunitions, intelligence, specialised troops (for the pointing system of some air defence systems), fundings, GPS and target data. Doesn't seem so crazy for me that they are saying they are fightning NATO. Equipare that to the possibility of Russia actively attacking a NATO country is a choice based on your feelings, not really a fact.

    The economic ties were used to make us addicted to russian oil and gas; it nearly worked.

    So they wanted to make addicted to their gas and oil so they could declare war to us later and stop that commerce entirely? i don't see the logic

    I say that the economic ties that Russia prepared (UNDER PUTINS WATCH) were nothing else than an attempt to make sure Europe stays silent when Russia uses their military to expand once again.

    So Russia has built strong economic ties with the EU so that when Russia would attack the EU (so basically NATO), the EU will stay silent and let them do? This is literally nonsense.

    You may try again, but this time try to be less pro-russia in your arguments, because there isn’t any difference between someone who is pro-russia and a fucking nazi to me, and i do not converse with nazis, i punch them.

    I engaged in this conversation because i assumed an open mindset and an academic approach towards the issue. You ask for sources but the only one you provide is a youtube video and based on the flimsiness of your claims, that's probably the maximum extent at which you "study" conflicts. Then you end the speech with a pathetic tirade over nazis to show how though you are and obviously hinting at the fact that, at one point you had to say it, i'm pro-russia in your mind. I really try to have a discussion that doesn't end in a toddler-level conversation or people just choosing a faction like if it was a footbal team, but if this is the level of the conversation i don't see benefits in continuing it.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago (5 children)

    Ok mate, were done here. You are a fucking tankie in disguise who was sealioning from the beginning, and i won't engage with that crap anymore. Crawl back to your .ml friends and boast about how you wasted everyones time here.

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  • [+] -6 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    This comment shows your real colours and how actually shallow you are. You don't have anything to back up your claims, you say at the same time that the drones are russian jammed and that they are a deliberate attack to test defenses. You don't realise that a lot of people having a feeling doesn't transform that feeling on a fact. Especially if that feeling is carefully crafted by a gigantic media machine. Easier for you to call me Tankie, Russia-friendly, even nazi even if the only thing to back this up is that i disagree with your "analysis". You are just the result of a sick society where people are tought that ther opinion always matters even when based on other people's opinion only and when confronted can only shut the door and close themselves in their own bubble. That's ok, i hope you people will not drag us all to doom thanks to your armchair analysis based on a youtube video.

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  • [–] -1 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    Hey frustrated friend, I've been commenting in this thread in your support, trying to give you a more experienced perspective on this community. But as it stands, my instance lemmy.ml has been defederated from your instance infosec.pub, so you're not able to see any posts or comments from that instance (although it's the main dev instance).

    Here's a link to your comment thread via the lemmy.world instance where you can see all comments.
    Early on I tried to warn you, that you will not get any kind of open or constructive discussion in this community and as it turned out, looking at the ending of your conversation with Wildmimic (which himself has blocked the lemmy.ml instance, so he couldn't see any of my commentary either), and the tangential discussions I provoked, I think sadly I've been proven right.
    In my comments I also provided you with some ideas on where to get good information about the geopolitics of this war, explicitly non-communist, as the political thought of Marxism is not needed to deconstruct the dynamics (although, it's the best approach over all, but that's just my experience).

    Ya, anyway, just wanted to let you know. Doesn't matter if you care or not, but now you got the full picture of the conversation. Have a nice day and don't let you get dragged down by these people, you've done nothing wrong.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago

    Hey thanks for reaching out. I had a personal lemmy instance few years ago, but then life changed and i abandoned it. This thing of communities defederating each others for ridiculus reasons it's really embarassing and annoying, i think i'll go back to make my own instance because being able to see only part of the conversation is absurd.

    Early on I tried to warn you, that you will not get any kind of open or constructive discussion in this community

    I was aware of this :) my point was not to try to convince the person i'm interact with, but to show the people that are reading that there is a good and a bad way to study and analyze conflicts. Hopefully some reader got something out of it. I expect and don't mind the downvotes.

    Thanks for the links and for the suggestions, they are appreciated. I'll take a look later today. Have a great day and thanks for caring

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