274
Start praying for forgiveness or death (lemmy.world)
submitted 3 months ago by to c/linuxmemes@lemmy.world
62 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] 26 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (38 children)

"Linux just always works"

"It's easy for everyone."

Look, I love Linux, but I have been dicking with monitors that won't go to sleep for two fucking LTS releases and literally nobody is working on it, the person who originally added DCC/CI support never developed it more, nor did the maintainers they passed it off to. They even showed up in a thread about this fucking problem mentioning how they never developed it further! So I'm sending my error reports to??? Nobody? Since it doesn't seem to be a priority for literally anyone and I am too fuck stupid to fix it myself.

So, before they just wouldn't turn off. Now they turn off and fucking CRASH the power management subsystem about 15 times until they come back on and dont go off again.

But yeah, sure, Linux just works guys. It's easy for everyone.

I have been running Linux servers for almost 10 years and went full Linux on my desktop several years ago after dual-booting for the better part of a decade. I'm not some newbie asshat.

But I'm told shit like this never happens! What a crock of shit. if you're an edge case everyone just thinks you must not exist.

EDIT: To be clearer, the issue isn't the lack of solution (devs work hard), the issue is how many people will act like problems like these don't exist and shit all over someone for saying "maybe we shouldn't just slap it on Grandma's computer, because sometimes there are issues" and jerks going "THERE'S NEVER ISSUES MY GRANDMA USES IT FINE!!!!"

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • hideshow 38 child comments
    •
  • [–] 21 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    No-one is claiming linux is perfect.

    What I do have a problem with is the idea that we should all act like it will explode in our faces.

    For the vast majority of users it won't.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
    •
  • [–] 11 points 3 months ago (12 children)

    do people really say "linux always works"?

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 12 child comments
    •
  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago (4 children)

    I had a coworker who always said "just use linux" when something didn't work on a windows machine. So he implied linux alwats works (there is no war in ba sing se)

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
    •
  • [–] 6 points 3 months ago

    As someone who said it before, I was recommending that to technical people having technical problems because of the stupid way windows does some things.

    So while I can't speak for anyone saying that, it doesn't mean it'll always work, or even that you'll have less problems, but it does usually mean that it's easier to figure out what's wrong and how to fix it because the system is so open.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    isn't he trying to say linux fixes the specific problem you were having when he said it? sounds like you are making assumptions.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago (4 children)

    If you really want me too I can go digging for my downvoted comments from six months ago where all I was doing was politely cautioning people against thinking Linux is a cure-all, I can go find it for you. There were numerous people in that thread all claiming as much. "It's easier than Windows now!!!" yeah, sure.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
    •
  • [–] 7 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    The Linux community could be studied for why people are so ignorant towards their own abilities; once they learned it many of them forget how skilled they've actually become and expect everyone else to also get on their level, or at least to aim for it (and those who don't shall stay on Windows. Fuck, I despise that sentiment).

    Surely it would be correct to say that many Linux distros are by now friendlier to the user than Windows (not that hard given how hostile Windows is). But for them to truly be easier they still miss at a minimum:

    • More PCs with it as a pre-installed option
    • A full pre-installed GUI config suite (incl. Bootloader, systemd, all of it)
    • Self-healing routines. Right now more and more ship with snapshots, but a failed update can still induce bootloops that require manual intervention
    • Nvidia drivers that work as reliable as AMDs for everyone (please don't comment "but works for me", I know some of you got lucky)
  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    Whenever I talk to people about Linux I try to never say it's "Easier" or "Easy" when comparing to Windows but that it is different. How you use the computer and configure stuff is different.

    Things like Bazzite for gaming or other CoreOS based distros are great for having a stable ground for people who don't want to mess with their stuff too much or tinker and I've heard a lot of good opinions and experiences about them as long as the CoreOS derive suit that audience to a tee in the first place.

    Whenever you want to go slightly off rails for the most common person who don't have the experience of Linux but comes from a Windows or Mac background it does indeed become hard in the sense of being "different".

    But a lot more so if you have incompatible hardware. You have to hope that you either have a laptop or computer with commonly used hardware by other Linux devs or you're out of luck and have to dig through specialised packages to try and install.

    Luckily from my experience it becomes a lot less and less that does happen with newer-ish hardware. But not unheard of sadly.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
    •
  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago

    I like to explain it as Windows and Mac spend their time babying the users and making things easy for them, it takes away your agency.

    Linux demands your agency because you are in full control no one is there to hold your hand, no one to stop you from doing something stupid.

    Windows demands very little, Linux demands a lot of attention and care and consideration.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • [+] 10 points 3 months ago (3 children)
    [deleted]
  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
    •
  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    Another pain in the ass for me β€” connecting dualsense controller via bluetooth. It connects, then just disconnects. There a workaround that includes fetching it’s ID via terminal, then using commands to connect and entrust that device. After that it connects fine. Until you need to reconnect it, that is, cause it stops being recognized. Apparently that was fixed like, a year ago. Yeah, right.

    Well uhh, guess there go my plans to eventually get a dualshock controller...

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago (12 children)

    I recall having to install 3rd party software to get DCC/CI working on Windows to change monitor brightness too, so I don't see how this is a fair "grandma" comparison.

    I'm assuming you're trying to turn your monitor off while there is still an active HDMI signal for some reason? Otherwise why wouldn't you just let the monitor put itself to sleep when it detects no signal like everyone else I know?

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 12 child comments
    •
  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (10 children)

    Hey look, it's one of the folks I'm talking about:

    I’m assuming you’re trying to turn your monitor off while there is still an active HDMI signal for some reason? Otherwise why wouldn’t you just let the monitor put itself to sleep when it detects no signal like everyone else I know?

    Nah, I'm trying to let the monitors put themselves to sleep, genius. That's what's not working. There shouldn't still be an active HDMI signal. Disabling DCC/CI doesn't fix the problem, either, it just goes back to the monitors not actually ever shutting off, just turning off for a moment and then coming back on, with plasmashell crashing instead of the power monitor. I don't care at all about controlling monitor brightness with DCC/CI but when the defaults cause crashes that's an issue.

    This is an out-of-the-box fresh install with no old dotfiles moved, complete refresh. These were the defaults I was given. Deciding to set your monitors to power down after 10 mins of inactivity shouldn't be causing crashes. i shouldn't have to manually turn my monitors off or do hacky shit with xscreensaver to get it working in fucking wayland just to not have monitor burn-in

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 10 child comments
    •
  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (9 children)

    I've not experienced any of this across many different linux systems... The default screensaver and lock screen work perfectly fine in KDE Plasma, and my monitors turn off when they should. I've even had no issues with HDR and variable refresh rates. (And the DCC/CI brightness controls for my TV work out of the box unlike windows).

    I'm sorry you haven't had the same experience. It almost seems like there could be something broken with your hardware if your monitor is continuing to detect a signal after things are asleep.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 9 child comments
    •
  • [–] -3 points 3 months ago* (8 children)

    I'm sorry you made an ass out of yourself for making an assumption.

    The thing is, Grandma won't know what the fuck is going on or what DCC/CI even is. Grandma is poor and using pieced together old systems and shitty old monitors.

    I'm not looking for a solution, I'm looking for people like you to stop making ass assumptions and get off your high fucking horse assuming the user must be at fault only realizing you're wrong and being an ass after you already did it.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 8 child comments
    •
  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago (7 children)

    Look, I was trying to understand your issue, since I'm a developer and am curious about this kind of thing. I stated my assumptions to try and make my initial point of view clear and give you the opportunity to provide more information if my assumptions were wrong.

    From what you've stated I don't believe your problem is related to DCC/CI at all, and is likely something else with sleep states failing. Whatever is failing on your system is extremely unusual and is not something that I would expect a "Grandma" to ever encounter. If anything, older hardware should be better supported.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 7 child comments
    •
  • [–] -4 points 3 months ago* (6 children)

    Look, you have zero attempt at self reflection here, this conversation is over. You made an assumption that the user was at fault and were wrong. Eat it. We aren't in a fucking bug thread with my logs. Developers got no fucking social skills.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 6 child comments
    •
  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago

    You made an assumption that the user was at fault

    I made an assumption about what your goal was, and made no claims of fault or right/wrong. You can do whatever you want with your own computer. Bye

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago (4 children)

    sorry, but "developers got no fucking social skills" coming from the only guy getting angry that someone's trying to help him is hilarious

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
    •
  • [–] -1 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (3 children)

    Once again, this isn't a bug thread, this is literally me, talking about an issue with the Linux community, which was ignored in favor of... all my complaints.

    If you guys can't wrap your mind around that I don't know what to tell you. I didn't need help, I know there's not currently a solution for me. I need people to not be asshats and assuming I must be doing it wrong because I have a problem to begin with... because it couldn't possibly be Linux that has an edge case! No, it's the users who are wrong!

    Fucking jackasses.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
    •
  • [–] 7 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    There must be something to do about it... the ffmpeg quote "talk is cheap, send patches" comes to mind. That sort of reaction from the developers is pretty awful, they're definitely begging for someone to do the work in their place.

    They could be overworked? That's a common affliction in open source, and from a few snippets I've read it seems that the kernel heavily prioritizes code proofreaders/mergers over code writers.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 7 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 child)

    I mean, I'm not trying to be dismissive of the hard work the devs do at all.

    My real issue is with the endless "It's easier than Windows now lolz!" I've literally been browbeaten and downvoted I don't know how many fucking times by asshats PROMISING me that problems like this don't fucking exist and it's FINE to load up Linux for fucking Grandma. Oh so when the power subsystem keeps crashing and Grandma doesn't know how to send an error report, it's just fine?

    The issue isn't the lack of solution, the issue is Linux afficianodos acting like real problems like these are bullshit and it's child's play to make the jump from Windows/macOS to Linux.

    And it's not! Linux is demands more of you! It doesn't baby you or do it for you. The last ten years have been nothing but research and figuring shit out. Windows and mac treat users like babies and Linux treats users like adults and it's not an easy transition for a lot of folks. Windows takes away your agency, Linux demands your agency.

    Sorry for the rant, I just want people to recognize Linux still has it's quirks and that's fine but acting like it's for everyone is a fucking joke and a crock of shit.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
    •
  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago*

    This isn't universally true and depends heavily on what the user uses their PC for and what hardware they have, but I have family members who would constantly ask for tech support for Windows. Just neverending issues. I installed Ubuntu for them, and tech support requests dropped by an order of magnitude.

    Nowadays they barely even turn it on, it's all phones and tablets.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    I want to switch to Linux so badly. I've been meaning to do it for years. But all I do on my PC is game. I don't use it for anything else except storing music files. When I turn it on, I'm trying to escape from life. I don't want to tweak shit, I don't want to troubleshoot, and I don't want to have to look anything up or get a home degree in computer science to figure out how to run my computer. I just want to load my games and play and not have to fiddle with compatibility or making it work. I'm still on Windows 10 and I keep it disconnected from the Internet unless I'm playing a game that needs a connection or I'm backing up my saves. So far it works for me and I don't know what I'll do when that stops. Eventually I'll probably switch my laptop to Linux and maybe if that goes well I'll get brave and do my PC.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
    •
  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago*

    You can do with linux, what you are already doing with W10.

    The switch will be a lot of work, but keeping it working doesn't have to be.

    I don't have my system set to auto-update. That way, if it worked yesterday, nothing that might change that will have happened since.

    Once you have your install working how you want, nothing has to change. Linux doesn't force updates on you, and if you don't stay connected to the internet, you don't need to worry about security vulnerabilities needing updates that fix them, either.

    Even better, with filesystem snapshots (which you can set up using timeshift if on btrfs), if you do update and run into issues, you can go back to exactly the way the operating system was before the update. Or weeks and even months earlier.

    This way, I don't need to tweak and fix my system. If an update breaks something, I don't fix it. I hit undo. And if I just want to get to gaming, I just skip updating that evening.

    Update when and if you feel like it.

    I just want to load my games and play and not have to fiddle with compatibility or making it work.

    Depending on what you play, that is pretty much how it works today. Install steam/heroic. Log in. Download games. Hit the play button.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent