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[–] 7 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (18 children)

My inderstanding is that good quality trials of acupuncture did NOT find any therapeutic effect. https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/acupuncture-doesnt-work/

Is this new study showing an actual therapeutic effect? Or is this a description of cellular activity as a possible mecanism, but without evidence of a therapeutic effect?

Edit: found the original publication mentioned in the news article. High numerical aperture confocal volumetric mesoscope reveals mesoscale subcellular dynamics in vivo.

This claims an anti-inflammatory effect on mice spleen. Hopefully we'll hear soon what the medical research community think about this trial.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    The issue with acupuncture I remember (and this may be 15 years out of date) is that while meta-analysis indicated a slight positive effect, it didn't seem to matter where the needles were inserted. All kinds of practitioners used different methodology.

    So hopefully that's all improved. I don't know that lowering inflammation in move spleens is an adequate root mechanism to explain those broad results though.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

    The skepticism toward acupuncture is that not only the location where the needle is inserted doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if inserting needle at all, ie it's no better than sham acupuncture. This looks like the placebo effect.

    A 2009 study found it's no better than poking patients gently with toothpicks. But still still conclude acupuncture is (more) effective. That's misleading. https://www.respectfulinsolence.com/2009/05/13/another-acupuncture-study-misinterpreted/

    Would be curious to read if there was a review that does a deep dive in to see what today's best evidence show, given randomization and blinded controls.

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  • [–] [S] 0 points 3 months ago (14 children)
  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago* (13 children)

    I looked at the first couple links given the time I have.

    These article conclude there seems to be an effect while stressing the conclusions are based on low quality studies.

    From Paulo Alexandre Pereira et al 2026:

    acupuncture is a safe and effective alternative to medication, despite the low to moderate methodological quality of the included studies

    From Chuwen Feng et al 2025:

    methodological weaknesses are worth mentioning, such as diversity between studies and the inclusion of lower-quality clinical trials. Future research should consider the importance of conducting large-scale, multicenter randomized controlled trials with standardized methodology to confirm these findings

    The science based medecine article I linked earlier references (reviews of) good quality trials & with strict controls, such as E. Ernst et al 2011:

    numerous systematic reviews have generated little truly convincing evidence that acupuncture is effective in reducing pain. Serious adverse effects continue to be reported

    There are good reasons to remain skeptical, given reseach that include low quality trials see some effect, while others don't.

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  • [–] [S] -2 points 3 months ago (12 children)

    I mean you just cherry picked a few here from a broad sample I gave you, and it's disingenuous to do that to frame it as if all the studies that disagree with your study are low quality.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago* (11 children)

    I looked at the first couple links you pointed me to. This is hardly cherry picking.

    The author themselves write their review include low quality study, acknowledging it weakens the conclusions. It's the author's assessment, not mine.

    Should I ignore the 2 first links, and look a another, specific one?

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 3 months ago (10 children)

    Looking at 2 out of 8 links provided is the definition of cherry picking. Nowhere did I say that you have to ignore anything. What I gave you is a broad example of many different studies. You zeroed in on two examples, ignored the rest, and then started making wild claims about the quality of research. If you had any genuine interest in the subject, you would've actually gone through all the links provided and then examined the available evidence before making further comments. But obviously you just wanted to confirm your existing biases and that's what you proceeded to do.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 weeks ago (9 children)

    My guy, they're your evidence. If I start reading through your own evidence, get a quarter of the way through, and have seen nothing of substance yet, how much more of my time am I supposed to spend curating your evidence for you? Maybe you should have curated your own list down to things that genuinely support your claims instead of getting mad at someone who points out you brought poor quality evidence?

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  • [–] [S] 0 points 2 weeks ago (8 children)

    You used a lot of words to say that you have poor reading comprehension.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (7 children)

    Fucking hilarious coming from a guy who doesn't realize the list of evidence he brought is crap.

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 2 weeks ago (6 children)

    Nah, there's nothing wrong with the list of evidence I brought. But feel free to continue the clown act, it's adorable.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago (5 children)

    If there's nothing wrong with it, then why did you get mad at them for cherry picking it? If you actually brought quality evidence, it should be impossible to cherry pick. The simple fact that you even leveled the accusation is in itself an admission that you brought poor quality evidence.

    Also, how are you almost immediately pulling upvotes in a three month old thread? I know I'm responding late, but I saw the notification pretty quick and just didn't have time to respond at the moment, and you already had it. That kinda looks like vote manipulation with extra accounts.

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (4 children)

    Cherry picking means taking things out of context to misrepresent the state of the facts. I gave a broad overview of many different studies, large and small, which all show the same thing. Let mew know what part of that you're struggling to understand here.

    Also, it's hilarious that you think I'm secretly upvoting myself here or something like I give a shit about picking up votes on some old thread.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago (3 children)

    The context that you provided was

    there are plenty of peer reviewed studies showing that acupuncture is effective, here are just a few examples:

    Then someone actually checks your evidence and finds they're admitting to using low quality studies/evidence. That's entirely in context. You just don't like being called out for it.

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  • [–] [S] 0 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

    Whatever helps you sleep at night I guess.

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