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Mexico Unveils Olinia 1: President Sheinbaum Launches First Mexican Electric Vehicle (latinarepublic.com)
submitted 5 months ago by to c/electricvehicles@slrpnk.net
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[–] 4 points 5 months ago (20 children)

I think you're right in that an ICE vehicle with similar specs would be worse off. Also, I think there's an error regarding the stated output of the engine. Official sources are showing a much higher rated output of 13.5kw.

It still seems underpowered if it is intended to carry 6 adults uphill at 50 kph. Regardless of torque, power is the rate at which work is done. It can be expressed as the resistive force times the velocity. I can't find a weight for the vehicle, but based on vehicles with similar specs, I'll guess it's well over 700kg. Moving 700kg up a 6-degree slope, which is still a pretty reasonable grade, at 50kph would require over 13kw and that's the theoretical max, without passengers, headwinds, etc. No way is the Olinia 1 doing 50kph uphill with 6 adult passengers.

Perhaps that's not the problem it's designed to solve, though. Maybe it's okay if it slows down to 25kph, carrying 6 adults, because it's navigating an urban environment. If the point is efficiency in city commuting, this could be a viable addition to the array of solutions for displacing fossil fuels.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (19 children)

    Your original comment just sounds like a lack of experience with electric vehicles. Simply put, EV and ICE are fundamentally different power trains. Routing a comparison through HP is exactly what someone familiar with ICE but not EV is exactly what you would do if you know traditional cars, but it doesn't map to EV's in how they work in the real life.

    And honestly, at the price we could probably buy one, find six lemmings in Mexico and a decent hill and just run the experiment.

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  • [–] 4 points 5 months ago (18 children)

    We might have a misunderstanding here.

    The comment to which you're replying is my original comment.

    Nothing in it is intended to be pro ICE or anti EV.

    This doesn't have anything to do with something as abstract as engineered systems. It's basic physics. You can't get 15kw out of something with a max output of 14kw. That's just axiomatic.

    P = Fv cosθ

    https://www.tutorchase.com/notes/a-level-ocr/physics/6-3-2-mechanical-power-from-force-and-speed

    Doesn't matter if it's ICE, EV, horses, flywheels powered by suspended weights, steam turbines powered by fusion, etc. It's just not possible to move a mass at an angle and velocity such that one of those variables increases without also increasing the power. These are some of the assumptions on which EVs are built. And they're constantly validated by testing and everyday EV (and ICE) driving experiences.

    I sincerely hope this project succeeds for all the right reasons. I'm not advocating for the preservation of ICE vehicles and infrastructure. My concern here is STEM literacy among advocates of progressive solutions. I would very much like for us to be taken seriously, and I think that requires communicating our position and intent effectively.

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  • [–] -3 points 5 months ago (17 children)

    We don’t have a misunderstanding. You made a reductive argument, got challenged, and now you’re acting like invoking “basic physics” makes the engineering irrelevant.

    Run your own scenario honestly. Holding 50 kph up a 6-degree grade with six adults is a high sustained wheel-power demand. If a vehicle only has 14 kW of continuous usable wheel power, ICE or EV, it probably is not doing that.

    But that does not make the powertrain irrelevant. That is exactly the point you keep missing.

    In an ICE vehicle, the rated power depends on RPM, gearing, transmission losses, and whether the engine can stay in its power band. In an EV, usable output depends on the motor, controller, battery, thermal limits, gearing, and peak-vs-continuous power. Those are not interchangeable systems just because the same physics applies to both.

    So no, reducing the question to horsepower does not make sense. Reducing it to torque does not make sense either. That is just car-brained ICE framing.

    The powertrain design is the point. Treating ICE, EV, horses, and flywheels as interchangeable for a real vehicle-performance question is not STEM literacy.

    The right answer here is to buy one of these, for both of us to go to mexico and make two freinds each, go to an appropriate hill, and give it a shot.

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago (16 children)

    Sure, but there's still a floor defined by physics. With the right setup, it could lift 5000lbs up a cliff. But it might take a year and hundreds of recharges.

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  • [–] -1 points 5 months ago (15 children)

    With the right setup

    Yeah. That's the entire point. The engineering changes the experience drastically. You can't just say watts are watts and be done with it. Its a reductive approach to do so.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (14 children)

    Yeah but the point is given a certain amount of watts, there's a maximum speed to lift no matter what the setup is. And it doesn't matter whether you measure that power in Watts, horsepower or Pferdestärke - the maximum speed to lift a given weight is the same.

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  • [–] -1 points 5 months ago (13 children)

    Do you drive an EV?

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (12 children)

    Yes, sometimes. My wife's car is a Tesla 3. And yes the feel is very different. But the bottom line physics is still the same.

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  • [–] -1 points 5 months ago (11 children)

    Its not "bottom line physics is the same" because the fucking aren't. The actual construction of the fucking vehicle and its power train matters. This why everyone is dismissive of your point. You just straight up wrong here.

    Go load up your wife's Tesla 3 with 1k lbs of cinder blocks, and then find an equivalent stated HP ICE vehicle and do the same. Drive both of them up the same hill and tell me its the same thing. And if you TRULY want to experience the difference, find a manual transmission ICE equivalent.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago (10 children)

    It's the same in terms of your maximum optimized speed. Power is power. An ice engine needs to rev high to get high power and an electric motor doesn't (depending on how it's wired). But if you optimize the drive train perfectly in either case, there is a maximum speed you can lift a given weight based on the power output of the engine system. v=P/(mg) this is irrelevant of whether your power is coming out of an electric, ice or other type of motor. A typical electric setup would probably get closer to that ideal than a typical ice in terms of achieving their maximum quoted power output. But the electric set up will never exceed it. That's just physics no matter how much you might like EV cars.

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  • [–] -1 points 5 months ago (9 children)

    Stop talking and load the car.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago (8 children)

    My wife would get mad at me for messing up her car. And while theories should sometimes be empirically verified even when already a standard assumption, in this case the physics is trivial high school level and so fundamental that it's stupid to bother. And just driving cars doesn't test it at all anyway - the fact that you think it does, demonstrates that you don't actually understand the point at all. But you don't seem to be capable of comprehending what I'm saying, and that fine; it takes all types. Have a good day.

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  • [–] 0 points 5 months ago (7 children)

    You'll just do anything it takes other than verify you claim in reality where you will very quick recognize it breaks down.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (6 children)

    Where what breaks down? You don't seem to even understand the point you're arguing.

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  • [–] 0 points 5 months ago (5 children)

    Then take the time to go back to your original claim and you'll soon recognize that you've just been talking out your ass this whole time about a trivial and irrelevant claim that isn't supported in the real world.

    You routed a comparison of an EV to an ICE power-train through HP, which is basically invalidated the comparison from the start, because as a basic comparison it doesn't make sense. And the reason why isn't just physics. But I'm not going to tell you more then that. You need to be curious enough to develop an understanding of why its a false equivalency to do so. You not understanding why that is the case is the entire point. Like you genuinely aren't worth arguing about this because your lack of understanding is so clear.

    And if you can't take the time to be introspective enough to recognize that, you genuinely aren't worth the time.

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  • [–] 0 points 5 months ago (4 children)

    Haha. Horse power is just another measurement of power like Watts. Just different units. Like km vs miles. You've realized that you're wrong and have nothing but insults left. Sad.

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  • [–] 0 points 5 months ago (3 children)

    Jesus fuck you are still here? The guy who still doesn't know what horsepower is? That its not actually "just another measurement of power". That the term doesn't actually mean what they think it means?

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (2 children)

    Maybe do some research before embarrassing yourself further? Or not. Whatever!

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