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Everything belongs to the workers (lemmy.ml)
submitted 6 months ago by to c/socialism@lemmy.ml
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[–] 4 points 5 months ago (18 children)

No you still do not understand please reread what I'm saying. Your fantasy of everyone or even most working 12 hours or 16 hours isn't real. Some Russians work 16 hours does it make sense to say Russians work 16hours a day? Obviously not.

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  • [–] -1 points 5 months ago (3 children)

    No you still do not understand please reread what I’m saying.

    Some Russians work 16 hours

    Did people in the USSR work 16-hour days?

    I’ll go even further: officially, holding two jobs in the USSR was prohibited by law.

    Your fantasy

    As you wish.

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    Maybe this is a language issue or maybe you have a vendetta and are twisting things on purpose but to be clear and go from the start again.

    You said Chinese people work 16 hours a day (implying this is normal)

    This is not true

    You then said it was 12 hours

    Again this is not true

    While some people definitely do it is not an accurate representation to say "Chinese people work 12 hours a day" as 90+% work between 6 and 10 hours.

    In the USSR even if technically not allowed some workers definitely worked 11+ hours be it to account for the extra labour necessary for rural upkeep or due to uneven enforcement.

    Would it then be fair to say soviet workers worked 11+ hours? Obviously not. Do you understand what I'm trying to say now?

    If not I am sorry but my English is not good enough to explain this better.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago

    Maybe this is a language issue or maybe you have a vendetta

    Just chalk it up to the fact that I live in a combat zone. It’s easier that way, comrade!

    Everything is absolutely driving me up the wall right now... and those two in the photo—they’re driving me crazy, too! Exploiters and soulless bastards! Just think about it: Marx must have turned in his grave when he saw that pair in the photo—a communist-oligarch and a ghoul who sold his soul to the devil. Lenin probably bolted out of the Mausoleum and ran to the pharmacy to get some sedatives... ))))

    Sorry, comrade—I mean you no harm... and I wish China nothing but prosperity and a peaceful sky overhead!

    You said Chinese people work 16 hours a day (implying this is normal)"

    That’s just a figure of speech meant to illustrate that Chinese people work a lot of overtime. I don't know exactly how many hours the Chinese work—sorry about that. But I do know for a fact that they work overtime. You can see this in the Russian Far East, where they work like robots—day and night. The locals are absolutely shocked by their productivity. I’m telling you this as a matter of fact, though I don't know exactly how many hours a day one would need to work to achieve that level of output—Russians certainly aren't capable of working like that.

    While some people definitely do it is not an accurate representation to say “Chinese people work 12 hours a day” as 90+% work between 6 and 10 hours.

    In the USSR even if technically not allowed some workers definitely worked 11+ hours be it to account for the extra labour necessary for rural upkeep or due to uneven enforcement.

    Would it then be fair to say soviet workers worked 11+ hours? Obviously not. Do you understand what I’m trying to say now?

    Товарищ, let's put an end to this conversation, please. It's going nowhere!

    I apologize once again; I meant you no harm—nothing but good. Peace be upon your home!

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  • [–] -3 points 5 months ago (12 children)

    Regarding my fantasies

    https://itc.ua/blogi/dzhek-ma-ubezhden-chto-rabotat-nuzhno-po-12-chasov-v-sutki-shest-dney-v-nedelyu/

    "Furthermore, Ma added that those wishing to join Alibaba must be prepared from the outset to work 12 hours a day."

    A member of the CPC and a leading Party official—Jack Ma. To be honest, I listened to him back in 2019, and my jaw dropped at the time.

    He was in Kyiv once; I saw him speak.

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  • [–] 5 points 5 months ago (11 children)

    leading Party official

    Ok now I know for sure you're twisting things on purpose. Best of luck to you.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    Yea, shit like this and saying the Statesian moon landing was fake are seriously damaging the appearance of sincerity.

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    I think it's what I'd expect from someone (sort of reasonably) drunk on nostalgia for what was a genuinely better time refusing to admit that that time has unfortunately passed and said better time despite being better was not perfect or globally applicable without any tailoring to each places specific conditions.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago

    Yep. I think a good deal of the problem is the language barrier, but it's unfortunate that it seems to be an unfortunate mixture of nostalgia with the jealousy of seeing socialism still being built in China while in Russia it's a (for now) bygone era.

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  • [–] -1 points 5 months ago (7 children)

    Comrade, you have to understand that this might have been hyperbole.

    He is a Party member—a billionaire. That is all I know about him. And I heard him speak when he was in Kyiv. He addressed Ukrainian youth and lectured them on how one ought to live.

    He spoke about himself, claiming that he never takes a break—that even during his morning run or in the shower, he is constantly thinking about work. He even said that while sleeping, he wakes up with ideas and jots things down in a notebook.

    He urged the Ukrainian youth to be just like him.

    It is the truth; I am not twisting anything.

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  • [–] 4 points 5 months ago (6 children)

    He is a Party member—a billionaire. That is all I know about him.

    If this is true that this is all you know, you would probably benefit from the teaching of Chairman Mao: No investigation no right to speak.

    If you had investigated you would have found that while true that due to the failings of Jiang and Hu a handful of capitalists were given party membership, that in reality it is in name only and they hold no power.

    The one and only time they tried to exert power by pushing to loosen banking regulations, so they could offer consumer micro loans, the party made them disappear and restructured the company. Foreign capitalists cried about this for years because it showed the truth, capital has no real power in China.

    Also since 2014 the faulty lines of Jiang and Hu are being corrected.

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  • [–] 0 points 5 months ago (5 children)

    If this is true that this is all you know, you would probably benefit from the teaching of Chairman Mao: No investigation no right to speak.

    Jack Ma, male, Han Chinese, member of the Communist Party of China, born September 1964 in Shengzhou, Zhejiang Province, is the chairman of the board of directors of Alibaba Group (China) Co., Ltd.

    ...He has been awarded the title of "Outstanding Builder of Socialism with Chinese Characteristics in Zhejiang Province."

    http://cpc.people.com.cn/n1/2018/1126/c419242-30420351.html

    Comrade, what kind of investigations are there? Don't you know how the oligarchs make their billions?

    They make their money by oppressing the proletariat.

    For example, he forces his workers to work overtime for the same wages. He doesn't pay compensation for overtime. He's not ashamed of it.

    Look on YouTube to see the conditions the workers at his factories live in.

    I'm not talking about all of China now; I'm talking specifically about the oligarch Jack Ma, who is a member of the CPC and who received an award "for outstanding services in building socialism."

    Comrade, please don't be offended by me; I'm dealing exclusively with facts, not speculation.

    Jiang and Hu a handful of capitalists were given party membership, that in reality it is in name only and they hold no power.

    Yes, oligarchs are all parasites—you're right.

    Their money is money stolen from the people. And it doesn't really matter whether they're in the Communist Party or not, because they're parasites a priori!

    The one and only time they tried to exert power by pushing to loosen banking regulations, so they could offer consumer micro loans, the party made them disappear and restructured the company. Foreign capitalists cried about this for years because it showed the truth, capital has no real power in China.

    It's encouraging that work is actually being done in China. This gives hope for the best....

    But until the oligarchs are exterminated as a class in China, they will continue to strangle the people!

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago (4 children)

    oligarch /ˈɒlɪɡɑːk/ An oligarch is a very wealthy and powerful individual who uses their vast financial and business resources to directly influence a country's government and political landscape. The word stems from the Greek term oligarchia, which translates to "rule by the few".

    They have no power they are not oligarchs. There are no oligarchs in China only a bourgeois element that is shrinking year on year that holds no real power.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (3 children)

    oligarch /ˈɒlɪɡɑːk/ An oligarch is a very wealthy and powerful individual who uses their vast financial and business resources to directly influence a country’s government and political landscape. The word stems from the Greek term oligarchia, which translates to “rule by the few”.

    Yes, I agree with you about the term "oligarch." I never mentioned Ma's influence on the state, though; I talked about the workers and how Ma made his billions.

    And I don't know about China, but in the USSR, all party workers were a priori involved in government activities.

    I suppose China also has "party meetings" at various levels, where party workers make key decisions by voting. At these meetings, such a distinguished and distinguished figure surely enjoys considerable authority. Or am I mistaken?

    They have no power they are not oligarchs. There are no oligarchs in China only a bourgeois element that is shrinking year on year that holds no real power.

    Yeah, I've heard about that, but right now China is second in terms of billionaires after the US.

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    Or am I mistaken?

    Yes

    Yeah, I’ve heard about that, but right now China is second in terms of billionaires after the US.

    Yes because China has a very large population and thus all absolute numbers not adjusting for this will be extremely large and out of step with reality. In reality the rate of billionaires in China is 0.288 (Between India and Kazakhstan while being far less poor and far more advanced) where as it is 2.42 in the US and 0.821 in Russia for example.

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