▲ 202 ▼ "cuz, y'know, China bad." (lemmy.ml) submitted 6 months ago by culprit@lemmy.ml to c/memes@lemmy.ml 275 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 30 points 6 months ago* (34 children) What's an authoritarian? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 34 child comments replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -16 points 6 months ago* (33 children) State > people permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 33 child comments replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 28 points 6 months ago (24 children) So what's a non-authoritarian state? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 24 child comments replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -12 points 6 months ago (23 children) A state the exists as a servant to a citizenry that is not limited to class or ethnicity. A state served as a safeguard to the human rights of all humans within its sovereignty. It also serves as a mechanism to efficiently direct resources to human advancement as basic needs are automated. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 23 child comments replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 27 points 6 months ago* (21 children) I meant like can you give an example of one Also: It also serves as a mechanism to efficiently direct resources to human advancement as basic needs are automated. So like China permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 21 child comments replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -18 points 6 months ago (20 children) Finland permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 20 child comments replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 31 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) Finland? Where despite years of protest by the people, the state continues to buy Israeli weapons and cooperate with the zionist entity in the development of military tech and spyware? The state currently ignoring the very clear wishes of it's people in order to aid and abet a historically unpopular genocide? permalink fedilink source parent [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 27 points 6 months ago (2 children) The country that was a Nazi ally and didn't drop the swastika from their air force insignia until 2025? Finland the country currently implementing mass austerity while giving tax cuts to the rich? That Finland? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Ferrous@lemmy.ml 14 points 6 months ago (1 child) The Finnish Air Force swastika is such an interesting case to me, because the moment you do a google for "Finnish air force swastika", you are blasted with rationalizations: "predates nazism", "good luck charm", "innocent", "unrelated to Hitler". You get blasted with rationalizations before you can even see the history: which is that the innocent wholesome chungus dude who brought the swastika was Hermann Göring's brother in law lol. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_von_Rosen permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 14 points 6 months ago which is that the innocent wholesome chungus dude who brought the swastika was Hermann Göring’s brother in law lol. And the fact that he was himself a leading member of the Swedish National Socialist Bloc (Nazi party) permalink fedilink source parent [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 17 points 6 months ago (11 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 11 child comments replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -8 points 6 months ago (10 children) When was the last time Finland invaded someone? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 12 points 6 months ago (8 children) Finland lost ww2 as a member of the axis. The finnish army aided in the siege and starvation of Leningrad, which was one of the worst atrocities of ww2. After they lost the war, they ceded part of their territory to become an SSR, and were never strong enough again to challenge the eastern bloc. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -8 points 6 months ago (7 children) Did something happen prior to that which may have made Finland less than friendly to the Soviet Union? I wonder why they may not have wanted to ally with the country that just invaded them. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 13 points 6 months ago (4 children) Are you excusing them for fighting enthusiatically alongside the Nazis in WW2? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -13 points 6 months ago (3 children) The Soviets invaded Poland in conjunction with the Nazis under the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, are you sure you want to go down that route now? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 13 points 6 months ago* (2 children) A)Whataboutism:) B) Absolutely reddit brained and incorrect. The nazis invaded, the government collapsed, then the Soviets moved in from the east to evacuate civillians and secure defensive positions. This action saved 7 million people, as opposed to the Finnish participation in the Nazi seige of Leningrad which killed a million people. And that's not even getting into Finland's concentration camps. Now what kind of person would equivocate the two, I wonder?🤔 permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Mulligrubs@lemmy.world -8 points 6 months ago* (1 child) You're misusing "whataboutism", you should drop that from your rotation. We're not limited to one point of discussion here, etc. Primus~ "He's a murderer, how dare he murder Bob!" Secundus~ "That's because Bob killed his entire family!" Primus~ "Whataboutism!" Secundus~ "You win the debate, I am wrong, I'm sorry." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism I know you've heard the term many times and are excited to join in... but don't. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 11 points 6 months ago I'm using it mockingly, it's a stupid term for exactly that reason permalink fedilink source parent [–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 11 points 6 months ago (1 child) Finland was one of the front lines of the Russian revolution, and the whites used finland as a base of monarchist assaults and intrigues against the world's first socialist state. The finnish communists then unfortunately lost their civil war, the finns then killed all their communists and made the communist party illegal, and became one of the fascist / reactionary powers in the 30s like nazi germany. Territorial disputes between the whites and reds escalated during the 30s leading to the winter wars, which finland lost, then ww2, which finland also lost. You are again siding with the reactionary side of history. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -12 points 6 months ago So Finland was a legitimate target because 20 years prior they were a jumping off point for the losing side of a civil war? Is that the gist? It was actually precipitated by the Soviet's demand that the Fins cede territory that kicked off the war. You are siding with the imperialists here. permalink fedilink source parent [–] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml 11 points 6 months ago 2001-2021, participated in invasion of Afghanistan permalink fedilink source parent [–] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 10 points 6 months ago (4 children) those right wing warmongering Russophobe US bootlickers? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -9 points 6 months ago (3 children) Didn't Russia start a now 4 year long conflict in Ukraine permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 13 points 6 months ago (1 child) Nope, they got involved in a now 12 year long conflict in Ukraine permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -6 points 6 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 12 points 6 months ago Yeah man the 14,000 civillians killed by Azov nazis were secret Russian combatants, you don't sound Israeli at all. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) [–] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 9 points 6 months ago No, the US nazi puppets did permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) [–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 34 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) You just described the PRC, and notably not capitalist dictatorships, whose governments don't represent their people / working class, but the interests of capitalists only. You desperately need to get past this poli-sci-intro-level understanding of what states are. States are organizations of force for one class (meaning in Marxism their relationship to production) to oppress another. The USA and other liberal countries are capitalist dictatorships over workers, while the PRC is a worker's dictatorship over capital. Here are some resources: https://dessalines.github.io/essays/crash_course_socialism.html https://dessalines.github.io/essays/dessalines_marxism_study_plan.html permalink fedilink source parent [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 6 months ago (8 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -5 points 6 months ago (7 children) The communist party controls the state, and not everyone is a member. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 11 points 6 months ago (6 children) No just one out of every 14 people, which you may notice is many thousands of times more democratic than any of the western so-called democracies by percentage. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -7 points 6 months ago (5 children) So 13 out of 14 people do not belong to the only political coalition (the 8 parties with 700,000 members total don't really count as "opposition parties") that is legally allowed in their country? In reference to my original post, we agree that authoritarianism is bad and you are arguing the case that China and the CCP is not authoritarian, correct? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 11 points 6 months ago (4 children) They seem to be doing a pretty good job we agree that authoritarianism is bad No. We disagree that "authoritarianism" is a meaningful distinction when every government exists by authority. Might as well call it "badguyism" permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -6 points 6 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 12 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) "I'm not gonna listen because my government has already told me that Enemy is Bad" Worldview so fragile permalink fedilink source parent [+] Mulligrubs@lemmy.world -7 points 6 months ago (2 children) Why do you believe the "democracy perceptions index"? Take a look at their supporters... like Palantir and Microsoft. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 10 points 6 months ago Oh, two corporate entities tightly bound up with American imperialism and who therefore have every incentive to lie in the opposite direction? Like yeah dude, it's a Harvard study, of course they're tangled up in US bourgeoisie shit. If it was a Chinese survey you'd be dismissing it for not being a Harvard study permalink fedilink source parent [–] orc_princess@lemmy.ml 9 points 6 months ago They have no interest in portraying China positively, when a person or source you mistrust publishes something against their best interest it makes it a lot more likely that it's true (like the CIA saying the USSR was democratic despite being enemies) permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies)
[+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -16 points 6 months ago* (33 children) State > people permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 33 child comments replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 28 points 6 months ago (24 children) So what's a non-authoritarian state? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 24 child comments replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -12 points 6 months ago (23 children) A state the exists as a servant to a citizenry that is not limited to class or ethnicity. A state served as a safeguard to the human rights of all humans within its sovereignty. It also serves as a mechanism to efficiently direct resources to human advancement as basic needs are automated. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 23 child comments replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 27 points 6 months ago* (21 children) I meant like can you give an example of one Also: It also serves as a mechanism to efficiently direct resources to human advancement as basic needs are automated. So like China permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 21 child comments replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -18 points 6 months ago (20 children) Finland permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 20 child comments replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 31 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) Finland? Where despite years of protest by the people, the state continues to buy Israeli weapons and cooperate with the zionist entity in the development of military tech and spyware? The state currently ignoring the very clear wishes of it's people in order to aid and abet a historically unpopular genocide? permalink fedilink source parent [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 27 points 6 months ago (2 children) The country that was a Nazi ally and didn't drop the swastika from their air force insignia until 2025? Finland the country currently implementing mass austerity while giving tax cuts to the rich? That Finland? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Ferrous@lemmy.ml 14 points 6 months ago (1 child) The Finnish Air Force swastika is such an interesting case to me, because the moment you do a google for "Finnish air force swastika", you are blasted with rationalizations: "predates nazism", "good luck charm", "innocent", "unrelated to Hitler". You get blasted with rationalizations before you can even see the history: which is that the innocent wholesome chungus dude who brought the swastika was Hermann Göring's brother in law lol. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_von_Rosen permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 14 points 6 months ago which is that the innocent wholesome chungus dude who brought the swastika was Hermann Göring’s brother in law lol. And the fact that he was himself a leading member of the Swedish National Socialist Bloc (Nazi party) permalink fedilink source parent [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 17 points 6 months ago (11 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 11 child comments replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -8 points 6 months ago (10 children) When was the last time Finland invaded someone? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 12 points 6 months ago (8 children) Finland lost ww2 as a member of the axis. The finnish army aided in the siege and starvation of Leningrad, which was one of the worst atrocities of ww2. After they lost the war, they ceded part of their territory to become an SSR, and were never strong enough again to challenge the eastern bloc. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -8 points 6 months ago (7 children) Did something happen prior to that which may have made Finland less than friendly to the Soviet Union? I wonder why they may not have wanted to ally with the country that just invaded them. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 13 points 6 months ago (4 children) Are you excusing them for fighting enthusiatically alongside the Nazis in WW2? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -13 points 6 months ago (3 children) The Soviets invaded Poland in conjunction with the Nazis under the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, are you sure you want to go down that route now? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 13 points 6 months ago* (2 children) A)Whataboutism:) B) Absolutely reddit brained and incorrect. The nazis invaded, the government collapsed, then the Soviets moved in from the east to evacuate civillians and secure defensive positions. This action saved 7 million people, as opposed to the Finnish participation in the Nazi seige of Leningrad which killed a million people. And that's not even getting into Finland's concentration camps. Now what kind of person would equivocate the two, I wonder?🤔 permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Mulligrubs@lemmy.world -8 points 6 months ago* (1 child) You're misusing "whataboutism", you should drop that from your rotation. We're not limited to one point of discussion here, etc. Primus~ "He's a murderer, how dare he murder Bob!" Secundus~ "That's because Bob killed his entire family!" Primus~ "Whataboutism!" Secundus~ "You win the debate, I am wrong, I'm sorry." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism I know you've heard the term many times and are excited to join in... but don't. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 11 points 6 months ago I'm using it mockingly, it's a stupid term for exactly that reason permalink fedilink source parent [–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 11 points 6 months ago (1 child) Finland was one of the front lines of the Russian revolution, and the whites used finland as a base of monarchist assaults and intrigues against the world's first socialist state. The finnish communists then unfortunately lost their civil war, the finns then killed all their communists and made the communist party illegal, and became one of the fascist / reactionary powers in the 30s like nazi germany. Territorial disputes between the whites and reds escalated during the 30s leading to the winter wars, which finland lost, then ww2, which finland also lost. You are again siding with the reactionary side of history. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -12 points 6 months ago So Finland was a legitimate target because 20 years prior they were a jumping off point for the losing side of a civil war? Is that the gist? It was actually precipitated by the Soviet's demand that the Fins cede territory that kicked off the war. You are siding with the imperialists here. permalink fedilink source parent [–] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml 11 points 6 months ago 2001-2021, participated in invasion of Afghanistan permalink fedilink source parent [–] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 10 points 6 months ago (4 children) those right wing warmongering Russophobe US bootlickers? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -9 points 6 months ago (3 children) Didn't Russia start a now 4 year long conflict in Ukraine permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 13 points 6 months ago (1 child) Nope, they got involved in a now 12 year long conflict in Ukraine permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -6 points 6 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 12 points 6 months ago Yeah man the 14,000 civillians killed by Azov nazis were secret Russian combatants, you don't sound Israeli at all. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) [–] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 9 points 6 months ago No, the US nazi puppets did permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) [–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 34 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) You just described the PRC, and notably not capitalist dictatorships, whose governments don't represent their people / working class, but the interests of capitalists only. You desperately need to get past this poli-sci-intro-level understanding of what states are. States are organizations of force for one class (meaning in Marxism their relationship to production) to oppress another. The USA and other liberal countries are capitalist dictatorships over workers, while the PRC is a worker's dictatorship over capital. Here are some resources: https://dessalines.github.io/essays/crash_course_socialism.html https://dessalines.github.io/essays/dessalines_marxism_study_plan.html permalink fedilink source parent [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 6 months ago (8 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -5 points 6 months ago (7 children) The communist party controls the state, and not everyone is a member. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 11 points 6 months ago (6 children) No just one out of every 14 people, which you may notice is many thousands of times more democratic than any of the western so-called democracies by percentage. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -7 points 6 months ago (5 children) So 13 out of 14 people do not belong to the only political coalition (the 8 parties with 700,000 members total don't really count as "opposition parties") that is legally allowed in their country? In reference to my original post, we agree that authoritarianism is bad and you are arguing the case that China and the CCP is not authoritarian, correct? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 11 points 6 months ago (4 children) They seem to be doing a pretty good job we agree that authoritarianism is bad No. We disagree that "authoritarianism" is a meaningful distinction when every government exists by authority. Might as well call it "badguyism" permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -6 points 6 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 12 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) "I'm not gonna listen because my government has already told me that Enemy is Bad" Worldview so fragile permalink fedilink source parent [+] Mulligrubs@lemmy.world -7 points 6 months ago (2 children) Why do you believe the "democracy perceptions index"? Take a look at their supporters... like Palantir and Microsoft. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 10 points 6 months ago Oh, two corporate entities tightly bound up with American imperialism and who therefore have every incentive to lie in the opposite direction? Like yeah dude, it's a Harvard study, of course they're tangled up in US bourgeoisie shit. If it was a Chinese survey you'd be dismissing it for not being a Harvard study permalink fedilink source parent [–] orc_princess@lemmy.ml 9 points 6 months ago They have no interest in portraying China positively, when a person or source you mistrust publishes something against their best interest it makes it a lot more likely that it's true (like the CIA saying the USSR was democratic despite being enemies) permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies)
[–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 28 points 6 months ago (24 children) So what's a non-authoritarian state? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 24 child comments replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -12 points 6 months ago (23 children) A state the exists as a servant to a citizenry that is not limited to class or ethnicity. A state served as a safeguard to the human rights of all humans within its sovereignty. It also serves as a mechanism to efficiently direct resources to human advancement as basic needs are automated. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 23 child comments replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 27 points 6 months ago* (21 children) I meant like can you give an example of one Also: It also serves as a mechanism to efficiently direct resources to human advancement as basic needs are automated. So like China permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 21 child comments replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -18 points 6 months ago (20 children) Finland permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 20 child comments replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 31 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) Finland? Where despite years of protest by the people, the state continues to buy Israeli weapons and cooperate with the zionist entity in the development of military tech and spyware? The state currently ignoring the very clear wishes of it's people in order to aid and abet a historically unpopular genocide? permalink fedilink source parent [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 27 points 6 months ago (2 children) The country that was a Nazi ally and didn't drop the swastika from their air force insignia until 2025? Finland the country currently implementing mass austerity while giving tax cuts to the rich? That Finland? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Ferrous@lemmy.ml 14 points 6 months ago (1 child) The Finnish Air Force swastika is such an interesting case to me, because the moment you do a google for "Finnish air force swastika", you are blasted with rationalizations: "predates nazism", "good luck charm", "innocent", "unrelated to Hitler". You get blasted with rationalizations before you can even see the history: which is that the innocent wholesome chungus dude who brought the swastika was Hermann Göring's brother in law lol. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_von_Rosen permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 14 points 6 months ago which is that the innocent wholesome chungus dude who brought the swastika was Hermann Göring’s brother in law lol. And the fact that he was himself a leading member of the Swedish National Socialist Bloc (Nazi party) permalink fedilink source parent [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 17 points 6 months ago (11 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 11 child comments replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -8 points 6 months ago (10 children) When was the last time Finland invaded someone? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 12 points 6 months ago (8 children) Finland lost ww2 as a member of the axis. The finnish army aided in the siege and starvation of Leningrad, which was one of the worst atrocities of ww2. After they lost the war, they ceded part of their territory to become an SSR, and were never strong enough again to challenge the eastern bloc. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -8 points 6 months ago (7 children) Did something happen prior to that which may have made Finland less than friendly to the Soviet Union? I wonder why they may not have wanted to ally with the country that just invaded them. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 13 points 6 months ago (4 children) Are you excusing them for fighting enthusiatically alongside the Nazis in WW2? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -13 points 6 months ago (3 children) The Soviets invaded Poland in conjunction with the Nazis under the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, are you sure you want to go down that route now? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 13 points 6 months ago* (2 children) A)Whataboutism:) B) Absolutely reddit brained and incorrect. The nazis invaded, the government collapsed, then the Soviets moved in from the east to evacuate civillians and secure defensive positions. This action saved 7 million people, as opposed to the Finnish participation in the Nazi seige of Leningrad which killed a million people. And that's not even getting into Finland's concentration camps. Now what kind of person would equivocate the two, I wonder?🤔 permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Mulligrubs@lemmy.world -8 points 6 months ago* (1 child) You're misusing "whataboutism", you should drop that from your rotation. We're not limited to one point of discussion here, etc. Primus~ "He's a murderer, how dare he murder Bob!" Secundus~ "That's because Bob killed his entire family!" Primus~ "Whataboutism!" Secundus~ "You win the debate, I am wrong, I'm sorry." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism I know you've heard the term many times and are excited to join in... but don't. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 11 points 6 months ago I'm using it mockingly, it's a stupid term for exactly that reason permalink fedilink source parent [–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 11 points 6 months ago (1 child) Finland was one of the front lines of the Russian revolution, and the whites used finland as a base of monarchist assaults and intrigues against the world's first socialist state. The finnish communists then unfortunately lost their civil war, the finns then killed all their communists and made the communist party illegal, and became one of the fascist / reactionary powers in the 30s like nazi germany. Territorial disputes between the whites and reds escalated during the 30s leading to the winter wars, which finland lost, then ww2, which finland also lost. You are again siding with the reactionary side of history. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -12 points 6 months ago So Finland was a legitimate target because 20 years prior they were a jumping off point for the losing side of a civil war? Is that the gist? It was actually precipitated by the Soviet's demand that the Fins cede territory that kicked off the war. You are siding with the imperialists here. permalink fedilink source parent [–] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml 11 points 6 months ago 2001-2021, participated in invasion of Afghanistan permalink fedilink source parent [–] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 10 points 6 months ago (4 children) those right wing warmongering Russophobe US bootlickers? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -9 points 6 months ago (3 children) Didn't Russia start a now 4 year long conflict in Ukraine permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 13 points 6 months ago (1 child) Nope, they got involved in a now 12 year long conflict in Ukraine permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -6 points 6 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 12 points 6 months ago Yeah man the 14,000 civillians killed by Azov nazis were secret Russian combatants, you don't sound Israeli at all. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) [–] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 9 points 6 months ago No, the US nazi puppets did permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) [–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 34 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) You just described the PRC, and notably not capitalist dictatorships, whose governments don't represent their people / working class, but the interests of capitalists only. You desperately need to get past this poli-sci-intro-level understanding of what states are. States are organizations of force for one class (meaning in Marxism their relationship to production) to oppress another. The USA and other liberal countries are capitalist dictatorships over workers, while the PRC is a worker's dictatorship over capital. Here are some resources: https://dessalines.github.io/essays/crash_course_socialism.html https://dessalines.github.io/essays/dessalines_marxism_study_plan.html permalink fedilink source parent
[+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -12 points 6 months ago (23 children) A state the exists as a servant to a citizenry that is not limited to class or ethnicity. A state served as a safeguard to the human rights of all humans within its sovereignty. It also serves as a mechanism to efficiently direct resources to human advancement as basic needs are automated. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 23 child comments replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 27 points 6 months ago* (21 children) I meant like can you give an example of one Also: It also serves as a mechanism to efficiently direct resources to human advancement as basic needs are automated. So like China permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 21 child comments replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -18 points 6 months ago (20 children) Finland permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 20 child comments replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 31 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) Finland? Where despite years of protest by the people, the state continues to buy Israeli weapons and cooperate with the zionist entity in the development of military tech and spyware? The state currently ignoring the very clear wishes of it's people in order to aid and abet a historically unpopular genocide? permalink fedilink source parent [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 27 points 6 months ago (2 children) The country that was a Nazi ally and didn't drop the swastika from their air force insignia until 2025? Finland the country currently implementing mass austerity while giving tax cuts to the rich? That Finland? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Ferrous@lemmy.ml 14 points 6 months ago (1 child) The Finnish Air Force swastika is such an interesting case to me, because the moment you do a google for "Finnish air force swastika", you are blasted with rationalizations: "predates nazism", "good luck charm", "innocent", "unrelated to Hitler". You get blasted with rationalizations before you can even see the history: which is that the innocent wholesome chungus dude who brought the swastika was Hermann Göring's brother in law lol. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_von_Rosen permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 14 points 6 months ago which is that the innocent wholesome chungus dude who brought the swastika was Hermann Göring’s brother in law lol. And the fact that he was himself a leading member of the Swedish National Socialist Bloc (Nazi party) permalink fedilink source parent [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 17 points 6 months ago (11 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 11 child comments replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -8 points 6 months ago (10 children) When was the last time Finland invaded someone? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 12 points 6 months ago (8 children) Finland lost ww2 as a member of the axis. The finnish army aided in the siege and starvation of Leningrad, which was one of the worst atrocities of ww2. After they lost the war, they ceded part of their territory to become an SSR, and were never strong enough again to challenge the eastern bloc. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -8 points 6 months ago (7 children) Did something happen prior to that which may have made Finland less than friendly to the Soviet Union? I wonder why they may not have wanted to ally with the country that just invaded them. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 13 points 6 months ago (4 children) Are you excusing them for fighting enthusiatically alongside the Nazis in WW2? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -13 points 6 months ago (3 children) The Soviets invaded Poland in conjunction with the Nazis under the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, are you sure you want to go down that route now? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 13 points 6 months ago* (2 children) A)Whataboutism:) B) Absolutely reddit brained and incorrect. The nazis invaded, the government collapsed, then the Soviets moved in from the east to evacuate civillians and secure defensive positions. This action saved 7 million people, as opposed to the Finnish participation in the Nazi seige of Leningrad which killed a million people. And that's not even getting into Finland's concentration camps. Now what kind of person would equivocate the two, I wonder?🤔 permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Mulligrubs@lemmy.world -8 points 6 months ago* (1 child) You're misusing "whataboutism", you should drop that from your rotation. We're not limited to one point of discussion here, etc. Primus~ "He's a murderer, how dare he murder Bob!" Secundus~ "That's because Bob killed his entire family!" Primus~ "Whataboutism!" Secundus~ "You win the debate, I am wrong, I'm sorry." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism I know you've heard the term many times and are excited to join in... but don't. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 11 points 6 months ago I'm using it mockingly, it's a stupid term for exactly that reason permalink fedilink source parent [–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 11 points 6 months ago (1 child) Finland was one of the front lines of the Russian revolution, and the whites used finland as a base of monarchist assaults and intrigues against the world's first socialist state. The finnish communists then unfortunately lost their civil war, the finns then killed all their communists and made the communist party illegal, and became one of the fascist / reactionary powers in the 30s like nazi germany. Territorial disputes between the whites and reds escalated during the 30s leading to the winter wars, which finland lost, then ww2, which finland also lost. You are again siding with the reactionary side of history. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -12 points 6 months ago So Finland was a legitimate target because 20 years prior they were a jumping off point for the losing side of a civil war? Is that the gist? It was actually precipitated by the Soviet's demand that the Fins cede territory that kicked off the war. You are siding with the imperialists here. permalink fedilink source parent [–] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml 11 points 6 months ago 2001-2021, participated in invasion of Afghanistan permalink fedilink source parent [–] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 10 points 6 months ago (4 children) those right wing warmongering Russophobe US bootlickers? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -9 points 6 months ago (3 children) Didn't Russia start a now 4 year long conflict in Ukraine permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 13 points 6 months ago (1 child) Nope, they got involved in a now 12 year long conflict in Ukraine permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -6 points 6 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 12 points 6 months ago Yeah man the 14,000 civillians killed by Azov nazis were secret Russian combatants, you don't sound Israeli at all. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) [–] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 9 points 6 months ago No, the US nazi puppets did permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) [–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 34 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) You just described the PRC, and notably not capitalist dictatorships, whose governments don't represent their people / working class, but the interests of capitalists only. You desperately need to get past this poli-sci-intro-level understanding of what states are. States are organizations of force for one class (meaning in Marxism their relationship to production) to oppress another. The USA and other liberal countries are capitalist dictatorships over workers, while the PRC is a worker's dictatorship over capital. Here are some resources: https://dessalines.github.io/essays/crash_course_socialism.html https://dessalines.github.io/essays/dessalines_marxism_study_plan.html permalink fedilink source parent
[–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 27 points 6 months ago* (21 children) I meant like can you give an example of one Also: It also serves as a mechanism to efficiently direct resources to human advancement as basic needs are automated. So like China permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 21 child comments replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -18 points 6 months ago (20 children) Finland permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 20 child comments replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 31 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) Finland? Where despite years of protest by the people, the state continues to buy Israeli weapons and cooperate with the zionist entity in the development of military tech and spyware? The state currently ignoring the very clear wishes of it's people in order to aid and abet a historically unpopular genocide? permalink fedilink source parent [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 27 points 6 months ago (2 children) The country that was a Nazi ally and didn't drop the swastika from their air force insignia until 2025? Finland the country currently implementing mass austerity while giving tax cuts to the rich? That Finland? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Ferrous@lemmy.ml 14 points 6 months ago (1 child) The Finnish Air Force swastika is such an interesting case to me, because the moment you do a google for "Finnish air force swastika", you are blasted with rationalizations: "predates nazism", "good luck charm", "innocent", "unrelated to Hitler". You get blasted with rationalizations before you can even see the history: which is that the innocent wholesome chungus dude who brought the swastika was Hermann Göring's brother in law lol. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_von_Rosen permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 14 points 6 months ago which is that the innocent wholesome chungus dude who brought the swastika was Hermann Göring’s brother in law lol. And the fact that he was himself a leading member of the Swedish National Socialist Bloc (Nazi party) permalink fedilink source parent [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 17 points 6 months ago (11 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 11 child comments replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -8 points 6 months ago (10 children) When was the last time Finland invaded someone? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 12 points 6 months ago (8 children) Finland lost ww2 as a member of the axis. The finnish army aided in the siege and starvation of Leningrad, which was one of the worst atrocities of ww2. After they lost the war, they ceded part of their territory to become an SSR, and were never strong enough again to challenge the eastern bloc. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -8 points 6 months ago (7 children) Did something happen prior to that which may have made Finland less than friendly to the Soviet Union? I wonder why they may not have wanted to ally with the country that just invaded them. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 13 points 6 months ago (4 children) Are you excusing them for fighting enthusiatically alongside the Nazis in WW2? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -13 points 6 months ago (3 children) The Soviets invaded Poland in conjunction with the Nazis under the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, are you sure you want to go down that route now? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 13 points 6 months ago* (2 children) A)Whataboutism:) B) Absolutely reddit brained and incorrect. The nazis invaded, the government collapsed, then the Soviets moved in from the east to evacuate civillians and secure defensive positions. This action saved 7 million people, as opposed to the Finnish participation in the Nazi seige of Leningrad which killed a million people. And that's not even getting into Finland's concentration camps. Now what kind of person would equivocate the two, I wonder?🤔 permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Mulligrubs@lemmy.world -8 points 6 months ago* (1 child) You're misusing "whataboutism", you should drop that from your rotation. We're not limited to one point of discussion here, etc. Primus~ "He's a murderer, how dare he murder Bob!" Secundus~ "That's because Bob killed his entire family!" Primus~ "Whataboutism!" Secundus~ "You win the debate, I am wrong, I'm sorry." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism I know you've heard the term many times and are excited to join in... but don't. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 11 points 6 months ago I'm using it mockingly, it's a stupid term for exactly that reason permalink fedilink source parent [–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 11 points 6 months ago (1 child) Finland was one of the front lines of the Russian revolution, and the whites used finland as a base of monarchist assaults and intrigues against the world's first socialist state. The finnish communists then unfortunately lost their civil war, the finns then killed all their communists and made the communist party illegal, and became one of the fascist / reactionary powers in the 30s like nazi germany. Territorial disputes between the whites and reds escalated during the 30s leading to the winter wars, which finland lost, then ww2, which finland also lost. You are again siding with the reactionary side of history. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -12 points 6 months ago So Finland was a legitimate target because 20 years prior they were a jumping off point for the losing side of a civil war? Is that the gist? It was actually precipitated by the Soviet's demand that the Fins cede territory that kicked off the war. You are siding with the imperialists here. permalink fedilink source parent [–] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml 11 points 6 months ago 2001-2021, participated in invasion of Afghanistan permalink fedilink source parent [–] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 10 points 6 months ago (4 children) those right wing warmongering Russophobe US bootlickers? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -9 points 6 months ago (3 children) Didn't Russia start a now 4 year long conflict in Ukraine permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 13 points 6 months ago (1 child) Nope, they got involved in a now 12 year long conflict in Ukraine permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -6 points 6 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 12 points 6 months ago Yeah man the 14,000 civillians killed by Azov nazis were secret Russian combatants, you don't sound Israeli at all. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) [–] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 9 points 6 months ago No, the US nazi puppets did permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies)
[+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -18 points 6 months ago (20 children) Finland permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 20 child comments replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 31 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) Finland? Where despite years of protest by the people, the state continues to buy Israeli weapons and cooperate with the zionist entity in the development of military tech and spyware? The state currently ignoring the very clear wishes of it's people in order to aid and abet a historically unpopular genocide? permalink fedilink source parent [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 27 points 6 months ago (2 children) The country that was a Nazi ally and didn't drop the swastika from their air force insignia until 2025? Finland the country currently implementing mass austerity while giving tax cuts to the rich? That Finland? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Ferrous@lemmy.ml 14 points 6 months ago (1 child) The Finnish Air Force swastika is such an interesting case to me, because the moment you do a google for "Finnish air force swastika", you are blasted with rationalizations: "predates nazism", "good luck charm", "innocent", "unrelated to Hitler". You get blasted with rationalizations before you can even see the history: which is that the innocent wholesome chungus dude who brought the swastika was Hermann Göring's brother in law lol. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_von_Rosen permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 14 points 6 months ago which is that the innocent wholesome chungus dude who brought the swastika was Hermann Göring’s brother in law lol. And the fact that he was himself a leading member of the Swedish National Socialist Bloc (Nazi party) permalink fedilink source parent [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 17 points 6 months ago (11 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 11 child comments replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -8 points 6 months ago (10 children) When was the last time Finland invaded someone? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 12 points 6 months ago (8 children) Finland lost ww2 as a member of the axis. The finnish army aided in the siege and starvation of Leningrad, which was one of the worst atrocities of ww2. After they lost the war, they ceded part of their territory to become an SSR, and were never strong enough again to challenge the eastern bloc. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -8 points 6 months ago (7 children) Did something happen prior to that which may have made Finland less than friendly to the Soviet Union? I wonder why they may not have wanted to ally with the country that just invaded them. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 13 points 6 months ago (4 children) Are you excusing them for fighting enthusiatically alongside the Nazis in WW2? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -13 points 6 months ago (3 children) The Soviets invaded Poland in conjunction with the Nazis under the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, are you sure you want to go down that route now? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 13 points 6 months ago* (2 children) A)Whataboutism:) B) Absolutely reddit brained and incorrect. The nazis invaded, the government collapsed, then the Soviets moved in from the east to evacuate civillians and secure defensive positions. This action saved 7 million people, as opposed to the Finnish participation in the Nazi seige of Leningrad which killed a million people. And that's not even getting into Finland's concentration camps. Now what kind of person would equivocate the two, I wonder?🤔 permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Mulligrubs@lemmy.world -8 points 6 months ago* (1 child) You're misusing "whataboutism", you should drop that from your rotation. We're not limited to one point of discussion here, etc. Primus~ "He's a murderer, how dare he murder Bob!" Secundus~ "That's because Bob killed his entire family!" Primus~ "Whataboutism!" Secundus~ "You win the debate, I am wrong, I'm sorry." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism I know you've heard the term many times and are excited to join in... but don't. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 11 points 6 months ago I'm using it mockingly, it's a stupid term for exactly that reason permalink fedilink source parent [–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 11 points 6 months ago (1 child) Finland was one of the front lines of the Russian revolution, and the whites used finland as a base of monarchist assaults and intrigues against the world's first socialist state. The finnish communists then unfortunately lost their civil war, the finns then killed all their communists and made the communist party illegal, and became one of the fascist / reactionary powers in the 30s like nazi germany. Territorial disputes between the whites and reds escalated during the 30s leading to the winter wars, which finland lost, then ww2, which finland also lost. You are again siding with the reactionary side of history. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -12 points 6 months ago So Finland was a legitimate target because 20 years prior they were a jumping off point for the losing side of a civil war? Is that the gist? It was actually precipitated by the Soviet's demand that the Fins cede territory that kicked off the war. You are siding with the imperialists here. permalink fedilink source parent [–] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml 11 points 6 months ago 2001-2021, participated in invasion of Afghanistan permalink fedilink source parent [–] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 10 points 6 months ago (4 children) those right wing warmongering Russophobe US bootlickers? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -9 points 6 months ago (3 children) Didn't Russia start a now 4 year long conflict in Ukraine permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 13 points 6 months ago (1 child) Nope, they got involved in a now 12 year long conflict in Ukraine permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -6 points 6 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 12 points 6 months ago Yeah man the 14,000 civillians killed by Azov nazis were secret Russian combatants, you don't sound Israeli at all. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) [–] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 9 points 6 months ago No, the US nazi puppets did permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies)
[–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 31 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) Finland? Where despite years of protest by the people, the state continues to buy Israeli weapons and cooperate with the zionist entity in the development of military tech and spyware? The state currently ignoring the very clear wishes of it's people in order to aid and abet a historically unpopular genocide? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 27 points 6 months ago (2 children) The country that was a Nazi ally and didn't drop the swastika from their air force insignia until 2025? Finland the country currently implementing mass austerity while giving tax cuts to the rich? That Finland? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Ferrous@lemmy.ml 14 points 6 months ago (1 child) The Finnish Air Force swastika is such an interesting case to me, because the moment you do a google for "Finnish air force swastika", you are blasted with rationalizations: "predates nazism", "good luck charm", "innocent", "unrelated to Hitler". You get blasted with rationalizations before you can even see the history: which is that the innocent wholesome chungus dude who brought the swastika was Hermann Göring's brother in law lol. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_von_Rosen permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 14 points 6 months ago which is that the innocent wholesome chungus dude who brought the swastika was Hermann Göring’s brother in law lol. And the fact that he was himself a leading member of the Swedish National Socialist Bloc (Nazi party) permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Ferrous@lemmy.ml 14 points 6 months ago (1 child) The Finnish Air Force swastika is such an interesting case to me, because the moment you do a google for "Finnish air force swastika", you are blasted with rationalizations: "predates nazism", "good luck charm", "innocent", "unrelated to Hitler". You get blasted with rationalizations before you can even see the history: which is that the innocent wholesome chungus dude who brought the swastika was Hermann Göring's brother in law lol. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_von_Rosen permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 14 points 6 months ago which is that the innocent wholesome chungus dude who brought the swastika was Hermann Göring’s brother in law lol. And the fact that he was himself a leading member of the Swedish National Socialist Bloc (Nazi party) permalink fedilink source parent
[–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 14 points 6 months ago which is that the innocent wholesome chungus dude who brought the swastika was Hermann Göring’s brother in law lol. And the fact that he was himself a leading member of the Swedish National Socialist Bloc (Nazi party) permalink fedilink source parent
[+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 17 points 6 months ago (11 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 11 child comments replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -8 points 6 months ago (10 children) When was the last time Finland invaded someone? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 12 points 6 months ago (8 children) Finland lost ww2 as a member of the axis. The finnish army aided in the siege and starvation of Leningrad, which was one of the worst atrocities of ww2. After they lost the war, they ceded part of their territory to become an SSR, and were never strong enough again to challenge the eastern bloc. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -8 points 6 months ago (7 children) Did something happen prior to that which may have made Finland less than friendly to the Soviet Union? I wonder why they may not have wanted to ally with the country that just invaded them. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 13 points 6 months ago (4 children) Are you excusing them for fighting enthusiatically alongside the Nazis in WW2? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -13 points 6 months ago (3 children) The Soviets invaded Poland in conjunction with the Nazis under the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, are you sure you want to go down that route now? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 13 points 6 months ago* (2 children) A)Whataboutism:) B) Absolutely reddit brained and incorrect. The nazis invaded, the government collapsed, then the Soviets moved in from the east to evacuate civillians and secure defensive positions. This action saved 7 million people, as opposed to the Finnish participation in the Nazi seige of Leningrad which killed a million people. And that's not even getting into Finland's concentration camps. Now what kind of person would equivocate the two, I wonder?🤔 permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Mulligrubs@lemmy.world -8 points 6 months ago* (1 child) You're misusing "whataboutism", you should drop that from your rotation. We're not limited to one point of discussion here, etc. Primus~ "He's a murderer, how dare he murder Bob!" Secundus~ "That's because Bob killed his entire family!" Primus~ "Whataboutism!" Secundus~ "You win the debate, I am wrong, I'm sorry." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism I know you've heard the term many times and are excited to join in... but don't. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 11 points 6 months ago I'm using it mockingly, it's a stupid term for exactly that reason permalink fedilink source parent [–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 11 points 6 months ago (1 child) Finland was one of the front lines of the Russian revolution, and the whites used finland as a base of monarchist assaults and intrigues against the world's first socialist state. The finnish communists then unfortunately lost their civil war, the finns then killed all their communists and made the communist party illegal, and became one of the fascist / reactionary powers in the 30s like nazi germany. Territorial disputes between the whites and reds escalated during the 30s leading to the winter wars, which finland lost, then ww2, which finland also lost. You are again siding with the reactionary side of history. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -12 points 6 months ago So Finland was a legitimate target because 20 years prior they were a jumping off point for the losing side of a civil war? Is that the gist? It was actually precipitated by the Soviet's demand that the Fins cede territory that kicked off the war. You are siding with the imperialists here. permalink fedilink source parent [–] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml 11 points 6 months ago 2001-2021, participated in invasion of Afghanistan permalink fedilink source parent
[+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -8 points 6 months ago (10 children) When was the last time Finland invaded someone? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 12 points 6 months ago (8 children) Finland lost ww2 as a member of the axis. The finnish army aided in the siege and starvation of Leningrad, which was one of the worst atrocities of ww2. After they lost the war, they ceded part of their territory to become an SSR, and were never strong enough again to challenge the eastern bloc. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -8 points 6 months ago (7 children) Did something happen prior to that which may have made Finland less than friendly to the Soviet Union? I wonder why they may not have wanted to ally with the country that just invaded them. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 13 points 6 months ago (4 children) Are you excusing them for fighting enthusiatically alongside the Nazis in WW2? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -13 points 6 months ago (3 children) The Soviets invaded Poland in conjunction with the Nazis under the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, are you sure you want to go down that route now? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 13 points 6 months ago* (2 children) A)Whataboutism:) B) Absolutely reddit brained and incorrect. The nazis invaded, the government collapsed, then the Soviets moved in from the east to evacuate civillians and secure defensive positions. This action saved 7 million people, as opposed to the Finnish participation in the Nazi seige of Leningrad which killed a million people. And that's not even getting into Finland's concentration camps. Now what kind of person would equivocate the two, I wonder?🤔 permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Mulligrubs@lemmy.world -8 points 6 months ago* (1 child) You're misusing "whataboutism", you should drop that from your rotation. We're not limited to one point of discussion here, etc. Primus~ "He's a murderer, how dare he murder Bob!" Secundus~ "That's because Bob killed his entire family!" Primus~ "Whataboutism!" Secundus~ "You win the debate, I am wrong, I'm sorry." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism I know you've heard the term many times and are excited to join in... but don't. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 11 points 6 months ago I'm using it mockingly, it's a stupid term for exactly that reason permalink fedilink source parent [–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 11 points 6 months ago (1 child) Finland was one of the front lines of the Russian revolution, and the whites used finland as a base of monarchist assaults and intrigues against the world's first socialist state. The finnish communists then unfortunately lost their civil war, the finns then killed all their communists and made the communist party illegal, and became one of the fascist / reactionary powers in the 30s like nazi germany. Territorial disputes between the whites and reds escalated during the 30s leading to the winter wars, which finland lost, then ww2, which finland also lost. You are again siding with the reactionary side of history. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -12 points 6 months ago So Finland was a legitimate target because 20 years prior they were a jumping off point for the losing side of a civil war? Is that the gist? It was actually precipitated by the Soviet's demand that the Fins cede territory that kicked off the war. You are siding with the imperialists here. permalink fedilink source parent [–] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml 11 points 6 months ago 2001-2021, participated in invasion of Afghanistan permalink fedilink source parent
[–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 12 points 6 months ago (8 children) Finland lost ww2 as a member of the axis. The finnish army aided in the siege and starvation of Leningrad, which was one of the worst atrocities of ww2. After they lost the war, they ceded part of their territory to become an SSR, and were never strong enough again to challenge the eastern bloc. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -8 points 6 months ago (7 children) Did something happen prior to that which may have made Finland less than friendly to the Soviet Union? I wonder why they may not have wanted to ally with the country that just invaded them. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 13 points 6 months ago (4 children) Are you excusing them for fighting enthusiatically alongside the Nazis in WW2? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -13 points 6 months ago (3 children) The Soviets invaded Poland in conjunction with the Nazis under the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, are you sure you want to go down that route now? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 13 points 6 months ago* (2 children) A)Whataboutism:) B) Absolutely reddit brained and incorrect. The nazis invaded, the government collapsed, then the Soviets moved in from the east to evacuate civillians and secure defensive positions. This action saved 7 million people, as opposed to the Finnish participation in the Nazi seige of Leningrad which killed a million people. And that's not even getting into Finland's concentration camps. Now what kind of person would equivocate the two, I wonder?🤔 permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Mulligrubs@lemmy.world -8 points 6 months ago* (1 child) You're misusing "whataboutism", you should drop that from your rotation. We're not limited to one point of discussion here, etc. Primus~ "He's a murderer, how dare he murder Bob!" Secundus~ "That's because Bob killed his entire family!" Primus~ "Whataboutism!" Secundus~ "You win the debate, I am wrong, I'm sorry." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism I know you've heard the term many times and are excited to join in... but don't. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 11 points 6 months ago I'm using it mockingly, it's a stupid term for exactly that reason permalink fedilink source parent [–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 11 points 6 months ago (1 child) Finland was one of the front lines of the Russian revolution, and the whites used finland as a base of monarchist assaults and intrigues against the world's first socialist state. The finnish communists then unfortunately lost their civil war, the finns then killed all their communists and made the communist party illegal, and became one of the fascist / reactionary powers in the 30s like nazi germany. Territorial disputes between the whites and reds escalated during the 30s leading to the winter wars, which finland lost, then ww2, which finland also lost. You are again siding with the reactionary side of history. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -12 points 6 months ago So Finland was a legitimate target because 20 years prior they were a jumping off point for the losing side of a civil war? Is that the gist? It was actually precipitated by the Soviet's demand that the Fins cede territory that kicked off the war. You are siding with the imperialists here. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -8 points 6 months ago (7 children) Did something happen prior to that which may have made Finland less than friendly to the Soviet Union? I wonder why they may not have wanted to ally with the country that just invaded them. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 13 points 6 months ago (4 children) Are you excusing them for fighting enthusiatically alongside the Nazis in WW2? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -13 points 6 months ago (3 children) The Soviets invaded Poland in conjunction with the Nazis under the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, are you sure you want to go down that route now? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 13 points 6 months ago* (2 children) A)Whataboutism:) B) Absolutely reddit brained and incorrect. The nazis invaded, the government collapsed, then the Soviets moved in from the east to evacuate civillians and secure defensive positions. This action saved 7 million people, as opposed to the Finnish participation in the Nazi seige of Leningrad which killed a million people. And that's not even getting into Finland's concentration camps. Now what kind of person would equivocate the two, I wonder?🤔 permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Mulligrubs@lemmy.world -8 points 6 months ago* (1 child) You're misusing "whataboutism", you should drop that from your rotation. We're not limited to one point of discussion here, etc. Primus~ "He's a murderer, how dare he murder Bob!" Secundus~ "That's because Bob killed his entire family!" Primus~ "Whataboutism!" Secundus~ "You win the debate, I am wrong, I'm sorry." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism I know you've heard the term many times and are excited to join in... but don't. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 11 points 6 months ago I'm using it mockingly, it's a stupid term for exactly that reason permalink fedilink source parent [–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 11 points 6 months ago (1 child) Finland was one of the front lines of the Russian revolution, and the whites used finland as a base of monarchist assaults and intrigues against the world's first socialist state. The finnish communists then unfortunately lost their civil war, the finns then killed all their communists and made the communist party illegal, and became one of the fascist / reactionary powers in the 30s like nazi germany. Territorial disputes between the whites and reds escalated during the 30s leading to the winter wars, which finland lost, then ww2, which finland also lost. You are again siding with the reactionary side of history. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -12 points 6 months ago So Finland was a legitimate target because 20 years prior they were a jumping off point for the losing side of a civil war? Is that the gist? It was actually precipitated by the Soviet's demand that the Fins cede territory that kicked off the war. You are siding with the imperialists here. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 13 points 6 months ago (4 children) Are you excusing them for fighting enthusiatically alongside the Nazis in WW2? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -13 points 6 months ago (3 children) The Soviets invaded Poland in conjunction with the Nazis under the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, are you sure you want to go down that route now? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 13 points 6 months ago* (2 children) A)Whataboutism:) B) Absolutely reddit brained and incorrect. The nazis invaded, the government collapsed, then the Soviets moved in from the east to evacuate civillians and secure defensive positions. This action saved 7 million people, as opposed to the Finnish participation in the Nazi seige of Leningrad which killed a million people. And that's not even getting into Finland's concentration camps. Now what kind of person would equivocate the two, I wonder?🤔 permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Mulligrubs@lemmy.world -8 points 6 months ago* (1 child) You're misusing "whataboutism", you should drop that from your rotation. We're not limited to one point of discussion here, etc. Primus~ "He's a murderer, how dare he murder Bob!" Secundus~ "That's because Bob killed his entire family!" Primus~ "Whataboutism!" Secundus~ "You win the debate, I am wrong, I'm sorry." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism I know you've heard the term many times and are excited to join in... but don't. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 11 points 6 months ago I'm using it mockingly, it's a stupid term for exactly that reason permalink fedilink source parent
[+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -13 points 6 months ago (3 children) The Soviets invaded Poland in conjunction with the Nazis under the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, are you sure you want to go down that route now? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 13 points 6 months ago* (2 children) A)Whataboutism:) B) Absolutely reddit brained and incorrect. The nazis invaded, the government collapsed, then the Soviets moved in from the east to evacuate civillians and secure defensive positions. This action saved 7 million people, as opposed to the Finnish participation in the Nazi seige of Leningrad which killed a million people. And that's not even getting into Finland's concentration camps. Now what kind of person would equivocate the two, I wonder?🤔 permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Mulligrubs@lemmy.world -8 points 6 months ago* (1 child) You're misusing "whataboutism", you should drop that from your rotation. We're not limited to one point of discussion here, etc. Primus~ "He's a murderer, how dare he murder Bob!" Secundus~ "That's because Bob killed his entire family!" Primus~ "Whataboutism!" Secundus~ "You win the debate, I am wrong, I'm sorry." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism I know you've heard the term many times and are excited to join in... but don't. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 11 points 6 months ago I'm using it mockingly, it's a stupid term for exactly that reason permalink fedilink source parent
[–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 13 points 6 months ago* (2 children) A)Whataboutism:) B) Absolutely reddit brained and incorrect. The nazis invaded, the government collapsed, then the Soviets moved in from the east to evacuate civillians and secure defensive positions. This action saved 7 million people, as opposed to the Finnish participation in the Nazi seige of Leningrad which killed a million people. And that's not even getting into Finland's concentration camps. Now what kind of person would equivocate the two, I wonder?🤔 permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Mulligrubs@lemmy.world -8 points 6 months ago* (1 child) You're misusing "whataboutism", you should drop that from your rotation. We're not limited to one point of discussion here, etc. Primus~ "He's a murderer, how dare he murder Bob!" Secundus~ "That's because Bob killed his entire family!" Primus~ "Whataboutism!" Secundus~ "You win the debate, I am wrong, I'm sorry." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism I know you've heard the term many times and are excited to join in... but don't. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 11 points 6 months ago I'm using it mockingly, it's a stupid term for exactly that reason permalink fedilink source parent
[+] Mulligrubs@lemmy.world -8 points 6 months ago* (1 child) You're misusing "whataboutism", you should drop that from your rotation. We're not limited to one point of discussion here, etc. Primus~ "He's a murderer, how dare he murder Bob!" Secundus~ "That's because Bob killed his entire family!" Primus~ "Whataboutism!" Secundus~ "You win the debate, I am wrong, I'm sorry." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism I know you've heard the term many times and are excited to join in... but don't. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 11 points 6 months ago I'm using it mockingly, it's a stupid term for exactly that reason permalink fedilink source parent
[–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 11 points 6 months ago I'm using it mockingly, it's a stupid term for exactly that reason permalink fedilink source parent
[–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 11 points 6 months ago (1 child) Finland was one of the front lines of the Russian revolution, and the whites used finland as a base of monarchist assaults and intrigues against the world's first socialist state. The finnish communists then unfortunately lost their civil war, the finns then killed all their communists and made the communist party illegal, and became one of the fascist / reactionary powers in the 30s like nazi germany. Territorial disputes between the whites and reds escalated during the 30s leading to the winter wars, which finland lost, then ww2, which finland also lost. You are again siding with the reactionary side of history. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -12 points 6 months ago So Finland was a legitimate target because 20 years prior they were a jumping off point for the losing side of a civil war? Is that the gist? It was actually precipitated by the Soviet's demand that the Fins cede territory that kicked off the war. You are siding with the imperialists here. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -12 points 6 months ago So Finland was a legitimate target because 20 years prior they were a jumping off point for the losing side of a civil war? Is that the gist? It was actually precipitated by the Soviet's demand that the Fins cede territory that kicked off the war. You are siding with the imperialists here. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml 11 points 6 months ago 2001-2021, participated in invasion of Afghanistan permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 10 points 6 months ago (4 children) those right wing warmongering Russophobe US bootlickers? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -9 points 6 months ago (3 children) Didn't Russia start a now 4 year long conflict in Ukraine permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 13 points 6 months ago (1 child) Nope, they got involved in a now 12 year long conflict in Ukraine permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -6 points 6 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 12 points 6 months ago Yeah man the 14,000 civillians killed by Azov nazis were secret Russian combatants, you don't sound Israeli at all. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) [–] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 9 points 6 months ago No, the US nazi puppets did permalink fedilink source parent
[+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -9 points 6 months ago (3 children) Didn't Russia start a now 4 year long conflict in Ukraine permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 13 points 6 months ago (1 child) Nope, they got involved in a now 12 year long conflict in Ukraine permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -6 points 6 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 12 points 6 months ago Yeah man the 14,000 civillians killed by Azov nazis were secret Russian combatants, you don't sound Israeli at all. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) [–] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 9 points 6 months ago No, the US nazi puppets did permalink fedilink source parent
[–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 13 points 6 months ago (1 child) Nope, they got involved in a now 12 year long conflict in Ukraine permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -6 points 6 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 12 points 6 months ago Yeah man the 14,000 civillians killed by Azov nazis were secret Russian combatants, you don't sound Israeli at all. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies)
[+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -6 points 6 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 12 points 6 months ago Yeah man the 14,000 civillians killed by Azov nazis were secret Russian combatants, you don't sound Israeli at all. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 12 points 6 months ago Yeah man the 14,000 civillians killed by Azov nazis were secret Russian combatants, you don't sound Israeli at all. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 9 points 6 months ago No, the US nazi puppets did permalink fedilink source parent
[–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 34 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) You just described the PRC, and notably not capitalist dictatorships, whose governments don't represent their people / working class, but the interests of capitalists only. You desperately need to get past this poli-sci-intro-level understanding of what states are. States are organizations of force for one class (meaning in Marxism their relationship to production) to oppress another. The USA and other liberal countries are capitalist dictatorships over workers, while the PRC is a worker's dictatorship over capital. Here are some resources: https://dessalines.github.io/essays/crash_course_socialism.html https://dessalines.github.io/essays/dessalines_marxism_study_plan.html permalink fedilink source parent
[+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 6 months ago (8 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -5 points 6 months ago (7 children) The communist party controls the state, and not everyone is a member. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 11 points 6 months ago (6 children) No just one out of every 14 people, which you may notice is many thousands of times more democratic than any of the western so-called democracies by percentage. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -7 points 6 months ago (5 children) So 13 out of 14 people do not belong to the only political coalition (the 8 parties with 700,000 members total don't really count as "opposition parties") that is legally allowed in their country? In reference to my original post, we agree that authoritarianism is bad and you are arguing the case that China and the CCP is not authoritarian, correct? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 11 points 6 months ago (4 children) They seem to be doing a pretty good job we agree that authoritarianism is bad No. We disagree that "authoritarianism" is a meaningful distinction when every government exists by authority. Might as well call it "badguyism" permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -6 points 6 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 12 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) "I'm not gonna listen because my government has already told me that Enemy is Bad" Worldview so fragile permalink fedilink source parent [+] Mulligrubs@lemmy.world -7 points 6 months ago (2 children) Why do you believe the "democracy perceptions index"? Take a look at their supporters... like Palantir and Microsoft. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 10 points 6 months ago Oh, two corporate entities tightly bound up with American imperialism and who therefore have every incentive to lie in the opposite direction? Like yeah dude, it's a Harvard study, of course they're tangled up in US bourgeoisie shit. If it was a Chinese survey you'd be dismissing it for not being a Harvard study permalink fedilink source parent [–] orc_princess@lemmy.ml 9 points 6 months ago They have no interest in portraying China positively, when a person or source you mistrust publishes something against their best interest it makes it a lot more likely that it's true (like the CIA saying the USSR was democratic despite being enemies) permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies)
[–] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -5 points 6 months ago (7 children) The communist party controls the state, and not everyone is a member. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 11 points 6 months ago (6 children) No just one out of every 14 people, which you may notice is many thousands of times more democratic than any of the western so-called democracies by percentage. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -7 points 6 months ago (5 children) So 13 out of 14 people do not belong to the only political coalition (the 8 parties with 700,000 members total don't really count as "opposition parties") that is legally allowed in their country? In reference to my original post, we agree that authoritarianism is bad and you are arguing the case that China and the CCP is not authoritarian, correct? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 11 points 6 months ago (4 children) They seem to be doing a pretty good job we agree that authoritarianism is bad No. We disagree that "authoritarianism" is a meaningful distinction when every government exists by authority. Might as well call it "badguyism" permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -6 points 6 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 12 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) "I'm not gonna listen because my government has already told me that Enemy is Bad" Worldview so fragile permalink fedilink source parent [+] Mulligrubs@lemmy.world -7 points 6 months ago (2 children) Why do you believe the "democracy perceptions index"? Take a look at their supporters... like Palantir and Microsoft. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 10 points 6 months ago Oh, two corporate entities tightly bound up with American imperialism and who therefore have every incentive to lie in the opposite direction? Like yeah dude, it's a Harvard study, of course they're tangled up in US bourgeoisie shit. If it was a Chinese survey you'd be dismissing it for not being a Harvard study permalink fedilink source parent [–] orc_princess@lemmy.ml 9 points 6 months ago They have no interest in portraying China positively, when a person or source you mistrust publishes something against their best interest it makes it a lot more likely that it's true (like the CIA saying the USSR was democratic despite being enemies) permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies)
[–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 11 points 6 months ago (6 children) No just one out of every 14 people, which you may notice is many thousands of times more democratic than any of the western so-called democracies by percentage. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -7 points 6 months ago (5 children) So 13 out of 14 people do not belong to the only political coalition (the 8 parties with 700,000 members total don't really count as "opposition parties") that is legally allowed in their country? In reference to my original post, we agree that authoritarianism is bad and you are arguing the case that China and the CCP is not authoritarian, correct? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 11 points 6 months ago (4 children) They seem to be doing a pretty good job we agree that authoritarianism is bad No. We disagree that "authoritarianism" is a meaningful distinction when every government exists by authority. Might as well call it "badguyism" permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -6 points 6 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 12 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) "I'm not gonna listen because my government has already told me that Enemy is Bad" Worldview so fragile permalink fedilink source parent [+] Mulligrubs@lemmy.world -7 points 6 months ago (2 children) Why do you believe the "democracy perceptions index"? Take a look at their supporters... like Palantir and Microsoft. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 10 points 6 months ago Oh, two corporate entities tightly bound up with American imperialism and who therefore have every incentive to lie in the opposite direction? Like yeah dude, it's a Harvard study, of course they're tangled up in US bourgeoisie shit. If it was a Chinese survey you'd be dismissing it for not being a Harvard study permalink fedilink source parent [–] orc_princess@lemmy.ml 9 points 6 months ago They have no interest in portraying China positively, when a person or source you mistrust publishes something against their best interest it makes it a lot more likely that it's true (like the CIA saying the USSR was democratic despite being enemies) permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies)
[+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -7 points 6 months ago (5 children) So 13 out of 14 people do not belong to the only political coalition (the 8 parties with 700,000 members total don't really count as "opposition parties") that is legally allowed in their country? In reference to my original post, we agree that authoritarianism is bad and you are arguing the case that China and the CCP is not authoritarian, correct? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 11 points 6 months ago (4 children) They seem to be doing a pretty good job we agree that authoritarianism is bad No. We disagree that "authoritarianism" is a meaningful distinction when every government exists by authority. Might as well call it "badguyism" permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -6 points 6 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 12 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) "I'm not gonna listen because my government has already told me that Enemy is Bad" Worldview so fragile permalink fedilink source parent [+] Mulligrubs@lemmy.world -7 points 6 months ago (2 children) Why do you believe the "democracy perceptions index"? Take a look at their supporters... like Palantir and Microsoft. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 10 points 6 months ago Oh, two corporate entities tightly bound up with American imperialism and who therefore have every incentive to lie in the opposite direction? Like yeah dude, it's a Harvard study, of course they're tangled up in US bourgeoisie shit. If it was a Chinese survey you'd be dismissing it for not being a Harvard study permalink fedilink source parent [–] orc_princess@lemmy.ml 9 points 6 months ago They have no interest in portraying China positively, when a person or source you mistrust publishes something against their best interest it makes it a lot more likely that it's true (like the CIA saying the USSR was democratic despite being enemies) permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies)
[–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 11 points 6 months ago (4 children) They seem to be doing a pretty good job we agree that authoritarianism is bad No. We disagree that "authoritarianism" is a meaningful distinction when every government exists by authority. Might as well call it "badguyism" permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -6 points 6 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 12 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) "I'm not gonna listen because my government has already told me that Enemy is Bad" Worldview so fragile permalink fedilink source parent [+] Mulligrubs@lemmy.world -7 points 6 months ago (2 children) Why do you believe the "democracy perceptions index"? Take a look at their supporters... like Palantir and Microsoft. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 10 points 6 months ago Oh, two corporate entities tightly bound up with American imperialism and who therefore have every incentive to lie in the opposite direction? Like yeah dude, it's a Harvard study, of course they're tangled up in US bourgeoisie shit. If it was a Chinese survey you'd be dismissing it for not being a Harvard study permalink fedilink source parent [–] orc_princess@lemmy.ml 9 points 6 months ago They have no interest in portraying China positively, when a person or source you mistrust publishes something against their best interest it makes it a lot more likely that it's true (like the CIA saying the USSR was democratic despite being enemies) permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies)
[+] GirthBrooksPLO@lemmy.world -6 points 6 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 12 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) "I'm not gonna listen because my government has already told me that Enemy is Bad" Worldview so fragile permalink fedilink source parent
[–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 12 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) "I'm not gonna listen because my government has already told me that Enemy is Bad" Worldview so fragile permalink fedilink source parent
[+] Mulligrubs@lemmy.world -7 points 6 months ago (2 children) Why do you believe the "democracy perceptions index"? Take a look at their supporters... like Palantir and Microsoft. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 10 points 6 months ago Oh, two corporate entities tightly bound up with American imperialism and who therefore have every incentive to lie in the opposite direction? Like yeah dude, it's a Harvard study, of course they're tangled up in US bourgeoisie shit. If it was a Chinese survey you'd be dismissing it for not being a Harvard study permalink fedilink source parent [–] orc_princess@lemmy.ml 9 points 6 months ago They have no interest in portraying China positively, when a person or source you mistrust publishes something against their best interest it makes it a lot more likely that it's true (like the CIA saying the USSR was democratic despite being enemies) permalink fedilink source parent
[–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 10 points 6 months ago Oh, two corporate entities tightly bound up with American imperialism and who therefore have every incentive to lie in the opposite direction? Like yeah dude, it's a Harvard study, of course they're tangled up in US bourgeoisie shit. If it was a Chinese survey you'd be dismissing it for not being a Harvard study permalink fedilink source parent
[–] orc_princess@lemmy.ml 9 points 6 months ago They have no interest in portraying China positively, when a person or source you mistrust publishes something against their best interest it makes it a lot more likely that it's true (like the CIA saying the USSR was democratic despite being enemies) permalink fedilink source parent
