▲ 25 ▼ CHANGE(the bombs out) (lemmy.ml) submitted 7 months ago by jankforlife@lemmy.ml to c/memes@lemmy.ml 62 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[+] Archangel1313@lemmy.ca -11 points 7 months ago (43 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source hideshow 43 child comments replies: [–] DudleyMason@lemmy.ml 25 points 7 months ago (1 child) Yeah, we need More female and diverse drone bomber pilots and concentration camp guards!! The Status Quo vs The Status Quo But Worse is a totally free and fair election, liberal democracy is not just a placeholder for fascism! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] tootoughtoremember@lemmy.world 15 points 7 months ago More 👏 Women 👏 Drone 👏 Pilots permalink fedilink source parent [–] PanArab@lemmy.ml 18 points 7 months ago (3 children) She could have distanced herself from Biden's genocide but chose not to permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] eldavi@lemmy.ml 13 points 7 months ago (2 children) a diet-genocide is still the same thing as a full-fat-genocide. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org 10 points 7 months ago (1 child) She was even campaigning on making the military more lethal and Iran is out biggest enemy permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] orc_princess@lemmy.ml 7 points 7 months ago And democrats being the toughest on immigration. They literally ran as republicans, and people are surprised they lost. permalink fedilink source parent [+] hamid@crazypeople.online 18 points 7 months ago (18 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 18 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 14 points 7 months ago (17 children) Name the better alternative permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 17 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] DudleyMason@lemmy.ml 18 points 7 months ago (3 children) But like I said...no one bothered to show up and vote...so we got Biden. That's not even close to what happened. The DNC Leadership chose Biden specifically to stop Bernie. That's why when Biden was in sixth place going in to Super Tuesday every establishment candidate ahead of him bowed out on the same night and gave him their delegates, pushing him from sixth to first, and Warren stayed in to split the progressive vote and push the "Bernie Bros are sexist creeps" narrative. The US is not a Democracy, it's an Oligarchy. Democrats Now Openly Admit They Pushed Biden to Block Bernie https://share.google/zcegH1ZFBvtMJdShZ The U.S. is an Oligarchy? The Research, Explained | RepresentUs https://share.google/WHeE7b3nhnAxZ8sSE permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] eldavi@lemmy.ml 12 points 7 months ago not running a pro-genocide candidate to run against another pro-genocide candidate would be a great start. permalink fedilink source parent [–] DudleyMason@lemmy.ml 8 points 7 months ago (1 child) Are you really suggesting that there isn't a chilling effect on people who want to improve the status quo when they see the party nakedly manipulating the outcome? With this being exactly four years after the DNC nakedly manipulated the system in ways that had since been exhaustively documented, I'd say it massively suppressed the progressive vote, and Warren staying in far too long and splitting that vote before endorsing Biden sealed the deal. Three election cycles in a row the party has nakedly and unashamedly manipulated things to ensure a donor-friendly candidate. In 2024 there wasn't even a primary, despite everyone knowing Biden couldn't handle another campaign. At this point anyone who finds the status quo unacceptable and still votes for the Democrats is obviously a graduate of the Charlie Brown School of Field Goal Kicks. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] DudleyMason@lemmy.ml 7 points 7 months ago Are you really suggesting that those people are being somehow prevented from voting, just because the establishment wants them to stay home? No, I'm suggesting that those people are (correctly) realizing that the game is rigged and refusing to play. Your narrative that progressives could win if they showed up has been repeatedly proven to be a lie, fewer people believe it each election cycle, you cannot change the status quo by doing what the people who profit from the status quo want you to do. The Democrats are not the opposition to the GOP, they are the compliment to them. They exist to make the Wall St agenda palatable by comparison. Their only purpose is to ensure the gullible retain enough faith in the system to prevent any meaningful revolt. permalink fedilink source parent [–] PanArab@lemmy.ml 14 points 7 months ago (2 children) The DNC is a private corporation and would have chosen Biden anyways permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org 8 points 7 months ago (1 child) They managed to successfully convince enough progressives that they could, that people just sat down and stopped fighting Weird way to say got all but the other progressive candidate to drop out, get behind Biden and have the remaining progressive candidate start attacking Bernie permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org 7 points 7 months ago Not really. Dnc could pull another trick like the Iowa app fuck up. Or as others have pointed out they don't even need to follow how voters in the primary or cacuses pick. I'm confused are you arguing the dnc doesn't control who they put on the ticket or that it's the voters fault for how presidential primaries go when it may not even matter by the time they get the opportunity to vote? permalink fedilink source parent [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 13 points 7 months ago (4 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 15 points 7 months ago (1 child) But oh no gaza The fact you can say this about a genocide and people not supporting it's enablers really shows how despicable you are. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 7 points 7 months ago "But oh no Auschwitz🙄" permalink fedilink source parent [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 7 points 7 months ago* (1 child) Those dead iranian school childrens blood is on all the hands that sat back and let or even helped trump into the office. This means that the blood of every dead Gazan is on the hands of everyone who directly voted to enable their slaughter permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Zexks@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago That ven diagram is a circle permalink fedilink source parent [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 20 points 7 months ago (5 children) The best alternative liberal Zionist Bernie Sanders who even if he had received all the votes you wanted would have just been undermined and sabotaged again by the DNC establishment like in 2016. You can't vote the fascism away. The ruling class is not going to politely expropriate themselves. You should read Luxemburg's "reform or revolution". permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 16 points 7 months ago (4 children) Bernie is absolutely a liberal. Calling him anything else ignores what he actually proposes. He wants to regulate capital, not expropriate it. He wants to blunt capitalism's worst edges at home while leaving the imperial core intact. That is social democracy at best, a liberal ideology. His own platform accepts the basic framework of private ownership of the means of production. He seeks to manage the crisis, not resolve its root cause. That is precisely the reformism Luxemburg critiqued a century ago in the work I already recommended. You really should read it. Electoralism under liberal democracy is not a path to socialism. It is a containment strategy. The ballot box is designed to channel dissent into harmless rituals that leave property relations untouched. You think stacking votes can overcome capital's structural power. But capital does not rule through votes. It rules through ownership of production, control of credit, domination of media, and monopoly on organised violence. When the vote threatens those foundations, the mask comes off. The courts block, the capital strikes, the media smears, the state represses. This is not conspiracy. It is the normal functioning of the bourgeois state. Expecting otherwise is like expecting a wolf to vote itself vegetarian. Your entire argument rests on idealist assumptions. You treat consciousness as primary and material conditions as secondary. You think changing minds at the ballot box changes the balance of class forces. That is backwards. Social being determines social consciousness, not the other way around. You mistake the form of democracy for its content. You ignore that the two-party system is a mechanism to limit political competition to factions of capital, not to enable working-class rule. You cite 2016 and 2020 as if they were isolated failures of strategy, not expressions of a system that structurally excludes anti-capitalist politics. You blame the left for "quitting" instead of asking why the electoral arena absorbs and neutralises radical energy every single time. This is not analysis. It is moralising. I am Chinese, not American. We had our revolution. We broke the bourgeois state and built a system where the vote actually means something because it is embedded in democratic centralism and whole-process people's democracy, not trapped in a ballot box ritual that changes nothing. These electoralist squabbles about which faction of capital should manage the American empire are none of my concern outside of the theoretical interest I take in educating and engaging in dialogue with comrades in a much different situation. I know it sounds cliché to say "read theory," but genuinely, every idealist assumption you are recycling has been academically addressed and refuted for decades. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 7 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] eldavi@lemmy.ml 3 points 7 months ago social democrat, not a demsoc this is my first time hearing this. do you know of other sources i can look up to know the difference? permalink fedilink source parent [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 8 points 7 months ago No permalink fedilink source parent [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 5 points 7 months ago (1 child) These smug dipshits may not take your explanations to heart, but know that I am. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 8 points 7 months ago Thank you always happy to hear when people enjoy and/or find my comments insightful. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies) [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 23 points 7 months ago (18 children) We get it, you're still mad at the commies for not falling in line behind Girlboss Hitler permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 18 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] PanArab@lemmy.ml 18 points 7 months ago Democrats have been just as bad as Republicans when it comes to Central and West Asia. Just because you think people there don't matter doesn't mean everyone does permalink fedilink source parent [–] eldavi@lemmy.ml 13 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (8 children) ... from a historical standpoint, Fascists hate Liberals ... they're the same thing where it matters; you need to go back and study history that isn't written by a capitalist. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 7 months ago (8 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 10 points 7 months ago (6 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 9 points 7 months ago (4 children) Lol! Wut? The Soviets didn't form an "anti-Nazi alliance"…they were allied with the Nazis. They made a deal with them to carve up Eastern Europe between their two empires. This was literally the same cynical opportunism that led the Americans to give sanctuary to Nazi scientists after the war. If this means that Liberals are somehow naturally aligned with fascism, in your mind…then so are Communists, by the same criteria. It simply isn't true, either way. It's amazing that every comment you post is so embarrassingly wrong. The USSR spent years trying to build an anti-Nazi alliance. 1933 they proposed collective security at the League of Nations. 1935 they signed mutual defense pacts with France and Czechoslovakia. Spring 1939 they sat in Moscow for months begging Britain and France for a real triple alliance. The West stalled. Refused to guarantee the Baltics. Refused to let the Red Army cross Poland to actually fight Hitler. Poland's elite, more scared of workers than of Nazis, said no too and instead joined Hitler in attacking Czechoslovakia. The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact happened because liberals handed Hitler Eastern Europe rather than work with socialists. When Soviet troops entered eastern Poland September 17 1939, the Polish state had already collapsed. Government fled to Romania September 15. Warsaw was burning. The army was broken. The lands the USSR moved into? Not Poland proper. Territories Poland had seized and occupied by force in 1919-1921 from Belarus, Ukraine, and Lithuania. And spare me the nonsense about liberals and fascists. They share a foundation: defense of capitalist property. When capital feels threatened, liberalism drops the mask. Chile 1973. Indonesia 1965. Greece 1967. The Soviet Union abolished the capitalist class. That is a total category difference. Then there is denazification. The contrast couldn't be clearer. In the Soviet zone, former Nazis went to labor camps. They worked. They earned minimum wage like other inmates. In the West? Operation Paperclip handed over 1,600+ Nazi scientists, officers, and spies. Wernher von Braun, who used slave labor to build V-2 rockets, became head of NASA's Apollo program. Adolf Heusinger, Hitler's Chief of the General Staff, became Chairman of the NATO Military Committee. Johannes Steinhoff, Nazi ace, also chaired NATO's military committee. Heinz Reinefarth, who massacred civilians in Warsaw, became a respected mayor in West Germany. I genuinely cannot fathom how someone can be this historically, politically, and materially illiterate and still type with such confidence. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 7 points 7 months ago (3 children) Did you actually read what I wrote or just skim for a keyword? Yes, the USSR ran Operation Osoaviakhim. They relocated German specialists. And then those specialists were forced to worked in research institutes under massive scrutiny and supervision for minimum wage where they would be executed if they refused to work. Not one of them was made head of the Soviet rocket program. Not one was given a seat on the Central Committee. Not one was appointed to command Warsaw Pact forces. The Soviet system used their technical labor under massive constraint and threat. The Western system restored their class power. Wernher von Braun didn't just "work" for NASA. He was a leader. Adolf Heusinger didn't just "consult" for NATO. He chaired its Military Committee. These weren't technicians in a lab. They were architects of policy, strategy, and rearmament. You call that "identical." That's not analysis. That's surrendering to bourgeois propaganda. One system subordinated former fascists to the dictatorship of the proletariat. The other subordinated the postwar order to former fascists. If you can't grasp that distinction, no amount of facts will help you. But please, keep typing. It's instructive. I personally couldn't imagine being so arrogant and idiotic as to embarrass myself to the level you have throughout this thread. You really are showing how you have somewhere between 0 and a negative understanding of history and honestly reality and might possibly be illiterate. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 6 points 7 months ago (2 children) This is basically just propaganda speak, for “my side can’t do bad things, only your side can” No it's the historical record of what actually happened. The fact you don't like it and wish all countries and systems were equally bad when it comes to fascism doesn't change that. The USSR for it's many faults was absolutely antifascist pre, during and post war. You are exhausting. So arrogant and so utterly wrong. You should be embarrassed I'm surprised the embarrassment hasn't won out and stopped you from spouting nonsense at least for a bit but I suppose you're still in the denial phase. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 4 points 7 months ago (1 child) You are conveniently omitting the fact that the Soviet Union had nearly identical programs running in parallel to the US. But they weren't identical that's the whole point I'm making please actually read what I said. I know reading might be hard but you are just wasting your time typing nonsense because you seemingly can't grasp what I'm saying In this case it’s cartoonishly obvious by the fact that your argument is so completely one-sided. In the case of the Nazis and fascism reality was "cartoonishly onesided". Again as I said the USSR for its many faults was absolutely antifascist whereas the US/Europe were categorically not. Look into operation gladio. Look into the history of Ford and IBM with regards to the Nazis not just pre war but during the war. Look at the difference between operation Paperclip and Osoaviakhim. If you think an accurate portrayal of reality is propaganda you really should do some introspection on what you believe, where you learned it etc. You have been embarrassingly wrong in basically every comment I've seen. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9skyguy0@lemmy.ml 2 points 7 months ago I hadn't known this about how the Soviets treated Nazis before and after the war. It's good to learn this and I really enjoy seeing your analysis and rebuttals. permalink fedilink source parent [–] DudleyMason@lemmy.ml 6 points 7 months ago Thanks for proving you're as illiterate about history as you are about politics. Now there's almost no chance any serious adults accidentally think you have anything intelligent to say. permalink fedilink source parent [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 5 points 7 months ago (1 child) Historical illiteracy and false equivalence. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies) [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 14 points 7 months ago the difference between a Liberal and a literal Fascist. Haha, lol, lmao even Free Palestine permalink fedilink source parent [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 22 points 7 months ago (2 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 21 points 7 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 15 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) So, your only solution is violence? Not solidarity? You voted for a genocide as a solution instead of having solidarity with it's victims. Because you wanted to go back to not caring about politics. permalink fedilink source parent [–] astutemural@midwest.social 6 points 7 months ago Really? That's funny, I seem to remember the DNC canceling the primary last election. Huh. Odd for a party where, "the voters decide who makes up the party". permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) [–] Catgrass@lemmy.world 15 points 7 months ago "scratch a liberal, a fascist bleeds" permalink fedilink source parent [–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 14 points 7 months ago* (3 children) Your good guys literally committed a genocide. You're a fucking clown. No. I’m mad that the American left is so politically uneducated that they can’t tell the difference between a Liberal and a literal Fascist. GUESS THE DIFFERENCE ISN'T FUCKING GENOCIDE from a historical standpoint The raw fucking irony of whining about people's political literacy and then saying this shit. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 10 points 7 months ago Oh, are israeli propagandists bad or something? Is it a mark on your character to support them or something? permalink fedilink source parent [–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 10 points 7 months ago* (1 child) What the fuck do you think the word nuance means, you fucking idiot? Since the rest of your comment is just smugly talking to yourself, totally nailing the vapid ignorance. "Um actually the people you don't like would like you because you were mean to me" stupid fucking baby. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 10 points 7 months ago We slaughtered a hundred thousand or so but we didn't say fuck words, it's very nuanced honey permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies)
[–] DudleyMason@lemmy.ml 25 points 7 months ago (1 child) Yeah, we need More female and diverse drone bomber pilots and concentration camp guards!! The Status Quo vs The Status Quo But Worse is a totally free and fair election, liberal democracy is not just a placeholder for fascism! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] tootoughtoremember@lemmy.world 15 points 7 months ago More 👏 Women 👏 Drone 👏 Pilots permalink fedilink source parent
[–] tootoughtoremember@lemmy.world 15 points 7 months ago More 👏 Women 👏 Drone 👏 Pilots permalink fedilink source parent
[–] PanArab@lemmy.ml 18 points 7 months ago (3 children) She could have distanced herself from Biden's genocide but chose not to permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] eldavi@lemmy.ml 13 points 7 months ago (2 children) a diet-genocide is still the same thing as a full-fat-genocide. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org 10 points 7 months ago (1 child) She was even campaigning on making the military more lethal and Iran is out biggest enemy permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] orc_princess@lemmy.ml 7 points 7 months ago And democrats being the toughest on immigration. They literally ran as republicans, and people are surprised they lost. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] eldavi@lemmy.ml 13 points 7 months ago (2 children) a diet-genocide is still the same thing as a full-fat-genocide. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org 10 points 7 months ago (1 child) She was even campaigning on making the military more lethal and Iran is out biggest enemy permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] orc_princess@lemmy.ml 7 points 7 months ago And democrats being the toughest on immigration. They literally ran as republicans, and people are surprised they lost. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] eldavi@lemmy.ml 13 points 7 months ago (2 children) a diet-genocide is still the same thing as a full-fat-genocide. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org 10 points 7 months ago (1 child) She was even campaigning on making the military more lethal and Iran is out biggest enemy permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] orc_princess@lemmy.ml 7 points 7 months ago And democrats being the toughest on immigration. They literally ran as republicans, and people are surprised they lost. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org 10 points 7 months ago (1 child) She was even campaigning on making the military more lethal and Iran is out biggest enemy permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] orc_princess@lemmy.ml 7 points 7 months ago And democrats being the toughest on immigration. They literally ran as republicans, and people are surprised they lost. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] orc_princess@lemmy.ml 7 points 7 months ago And democrats being the toughest on immigration. They literally ran as republicans, and people are surprised they lost. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] hamid@crazypeople.online 18 points 7 months ago (18 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 18 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 14 points 7 months ago (17 children) Name the better alternative permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 17 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] DudleyMason@lemmy.ml 18 points 7 months ago (3 children) But like I said...no one bothered to show up and vote...so we got Biden. That's not even close to what happened. The DNC Leadership chose Biden specifically to stop Bernie. That's why when Biden was in sixth place going in to Super Tuesday every establishment candidate ahead of him bowed out on the same night and gave him their delegates, pushing him from sixth to first, and Warren stayed in to split the progressive vote and push the "Bernie Bros are sexist creeps" narrative. The US is not a Democracy, it's an Oligarchy. Democrats Now Openly Admit They Pushed Biden to Block Bernie https://share.google/zcegH1ZFBvtMJdShZ The U.S. is an Oligarchy? The Research, Explained | RepresentUs https://share.google/WHeE7b3nhnAxZ8sSE permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] eldavi@lemmy.ml 12 points 7 months ago not running a pro-genocide candidate to run against another pro-genocide candidate would be a great start. permalink fedilink source parent [–] DudleyMason@lemmy.ml 8 points 7 months ago (1 child) Are you really suggesting that there isn't a chilling effect on people who want to improve the status quo when they see the party nakedly manipulating the outcome? With this being exactly four years after the DNC nakedly manipulated the system in ways that had since been exhaustively documented, I'd say it massively suppressed the progressive vote, and Warren staying in far too long and splitting that vote before endorsing Biden sealed the deal. Three election cycles in a row the party has nakedly and unashamedly manipulated things to ensure a donor-friendly candidate. In 2024 there wasn't even a primary, despite everyone knowing Biden couldn't handle another campaign. At this point anyone who finds the status quo unacceptable and still votes for the Democrats is obviously a graduate of the Charlie Brown School of Field Goal Kicks. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] DudleyMason@lemmy.ml 7 points 7 months ago Are you really suggesting that those people are being somehow prevented from voting, just because the establishment wants them to stay home? No, I'm suggesting that those people are (correctly) realizing that the game is rigged and refusing to play. Your narrative that progressives could win if they showed up has been repeatedly proven to be a lie, fewer people believe it each election cycle, you cannot change the status quo by doing what the people who profit from the status quo want you to do. The Democrats are not the opposition to the GOP, they are the compliment to them. They exist to make the Wall St agenda palatable by comparison. Their only purpose is to ensure the gullible retain enough faith in the system to prevent any meaningful revolt. permalink fedilink source parent [–] PanArab@lemmy.ml 14 points 7 months ago (2 children) The DNC is a private corporation and would have chosen Biden anyways permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org 8 points 7 months ago (1 child) They managed to successfully convince enough progressives that they could, that people just sat down and stopped fighting Weird way to say got all but the other progressive candidate to drop out, get behind Biden and have the remaining progressive candidate start attacking Bernie permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org 7 points 7 months ago Not really. Dnc could pull another trick like the Iowa app fuck up. Or as others have pointed out they don't even need to follow how voters in the primary or cacuses pick. I'm confused are you arguing the dnc doesn't control who they put on the ticket or that it's the voters fault for how presidential primaries go when it may not even matter by the time they get the opportunity to vote? permalink fedilink source parent [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 13 points 7 months ago (4 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 15 points 7 months ago (1 child) But oh no gaza The fact you can say this about a genocide and people not supporting it's enablers really shows how despicable you are. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 7 points 7 months ago "But oh no Auschwitz🙄" permalink fedilink source parent [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 7 points 7 months ago* (1 child) Those dead iranian school childrens blood is on all the hands that sat back and let or even helped trump into the office. This means that the blood of every dead Gazan is on the hands of everyone who directly voted to enable their slaughter permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Zexks@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago That ven diagram is a circle permalink fedilink source parent [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 20 points 7 months ago (5 children) The best alternative liberal Zionist Bernie Sanders who even if he had received all the votes you wanted would have just been undermined and sabotaged again by the DNC establishment like in 2016. You can't vote the fascism away. The ruling class is not going to politely expropriate themselves. You should read Luxemburg's "reform or revolution". permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 16 points 7 months ago (4 children) Bernie is absolutely a liberal. Calling him anything else ignores what he actually proposes. He wants to regulate capital, not expropriate it. He wants to blunt capitalism's worst edges at home while leaving the imperial core intact. That is social democracy at best, a liberal ideology. His own platform accepts the basic framework of private ownership of the means of production. He seeks to manage the crisis, not resolve its root cause. That is precisely the reformism Luxemburg critiqued a century ago in the work I already recommended. You really should read it. Electoralism under liberal democracy is not a path to socialism. It is a containment strategy. The ballot box is designed to channel dissent into harmless rituals that leave property relations untouched. You think stacking votes can overcome capital's structural power. But capital does not rule through votes. It rules through ownership of production, control of credit, domination of media, and monopoly on organised violence. When the vote threatens those foundations, the mask comes off. The courts block, the capital strikes, the media smears, the state represses. This is not conspiracy. It is the normal functioning of the bourgeois state. Expecting otherwise is like expecting a wolf to vote itself vegetarian. Your entire argument rests on idealist assumptions. You treat consciousness as primary and material conditions as secondary. You think changing minds at the ballot box changes the balance of class forces. That is backwards. Social being determines social consciousness, not the other way around. You mistake the form of democracy for its content. You ignore that the two-party system is a mechanism to limit political competition to factions of capital, not to enable working-class rule. You cite 2016 and 2020 as if they were isolated failures of strategy, not expressions of a system that structurally excludes anti-capitalist politics. You blame the left for "quitting" instead of asking why the electoral arena absorbs and neutralises radical energy every single time. This is not analysis. It is moralising. I am Chinese, not American. We had our revolution. We broke the bourgeois state and built a system where the vote actually means something because it is embedded in democratic centralism and whole-process people's democracy, not trapped in a ballot box ritual that changes nothing. These electoralist squabbles about which faction of capital should manage the American empire are none of my concern outside of the theoretical interest I take in educating and engaging in dialogue with comrades in a much different situation. I know it sounds cliché to say "read theory," but genuinely, every idealist assumption you are recycling has been academically addressed and refuted for decades. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 7 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] eldavi@lemmy.ml 3 points 7 months ago social democrat, not a demsoc this is my first time hearing this. do you know of other sources i can look up to know the difference? permalink fedilink source parent [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 8 points 7 months ago No permalink fedilink source parent [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 5 points 7 months ago (1 child) These smug dipshits may not take your explanations to heart, but know that I am. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 8 points 7 months ago Thank you always happy to hear when people enjoy and/or find my comments insightful. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies)
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 14 points 7 months ago (17 children) Name the better alternative permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 17 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] DudleyMason@lemmy.ml 18 points 7 months ago (3 children) But like I said...no one bothered to show up and vote...so we got Biden. That's not even close to what happened. The DNC Leadership chose Biden specifically to stop Bernie. That's why when Biden was in sixth place going in to Super Tuesday every establishment candidate ahead of him bowed out on the same night and gave him their delegates, pushing him from sixth to first, and Warren stayed in to split the progressive vote and push the "Bernie Bros are sexist creeps" narrative. The US is not a Democracy, it's an Oligarchy. Democrats Now Openly Admit They Pushed Biden to Block Bernie https://share.google/zcegH1ZFBvtMJdShZ The U.S. is an Oligarchy? The Research, Explained | RepresentUs https://share.google/WHeE7b3nhnAxZ8sSE permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] eldavi@lemmy.ml 12 points 7 months ago not running a pro-genocide candidate to run against another pro-genocide candidate would be a great start. permalink fedilink source parent [–] DudleyMason@lemmy.ml 8 points 7 months ago (1 child) Are you really suggesting that there isn't a chilling effect on people who want to improve the status quo when they see the party nakedly manipulating the outcome? With this being exactly four years after the DNC nakedly manipulated the system in ways that had since been exhaustively documented, I'd say it massively suppressed the progressive vote, and Warren staying in far too long and splitting that vote before endorsing Biden sealed the deal. Three election cycles in a row the party has nakedly and unashamedly manipulated things to ensure a donor-friendly candidate. In 2024 there wasn't even a primary, despite everyone knowing Biden couldn't handle another campaign. At this point anyone who finds the status quo unacceptable and still votes for the Democrats is obviously a graduate of the Charlie Brown School of Field Goal Kicks. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] DudleyMason@lemmy.ml 7 points 7 months ago Are you really suggesting that those people are being somehow prevented from voting, just because the establishment wants them to stay home? No, I'm suggesting that those people are (correctly) realizing that the game is rigged and refusing to play. Your narrative that progressives could win if they showed up has been repeatedly proven to be a lie, fewer people believe it each election cycle, you cannot change the status quo by doing what the people who profit from the status quo want you to do. The Democrats are not the opposition to the GOP, they are the compliment to them. They exist to make the Wall St agenda palatable by comparison. Their only purpose is to ensure the gullible retain enough faith in the system to prevent any meaningful revolt. permalink fedilink source parent [–] PanArab@lemmy.ml 14 points 7 months ago (2 children) The DNC is a private corporation and would have chosen Biden anyways permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org 8 points 7 months ago (1 child) They managed to successfully convince enough progressives that they could, that people just sat down and stopped fighting Weird way to say got all but the other progressive candidate to drop out, get behind Biden and have the remaining progressive candidate start attacking Bernie permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org 7 points 7 months ago Not really. Dnc could pull another trick like the Iowa app fuck up. Or as others have pointed out they don't even need to follow how voters in the primary or cacuses pick. I'm confused are you arguing the dnc doesn't control who they put on the ticket or that it's the voters fault for how presidential primaries go when it may not even matter by the time they get the opportunity to vote? permalink fedilink source parent [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 13 points 7 months ago (4 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 15 points 7 months ago (1 child) But oh no gaza The fact you can say this about a genocide and people not supporting it's enablers really shows how despicable you are. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 7 points 7 months ago "But oh no Auschwitz🙄" permalink fedilink source parent [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 7 points 7 months ago* (1 child) Those dead iranian school childrens blood is on all the hands that sat back and let or even helped trump into the office. This means that the blood of every dead Gazan is on the hands of everyone who directly voted to enable their slaughter permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Zexks@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago That ven diagram is a circle permalink fedilink source parent [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 20 points 7 months ago (5 children) The best alternative liberal Zionist Bernie Sanders who even if he had received all the votes you wanted would have just been undermined and sabotaged again by the DNC establishment like in 2016. You can't vote the fascism away. The ruling class is not going to politely expropriate themselves. You should read Luxemburg's "reform or revolution". permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 16 points 7 months ago (4 children) Bernie is absolutely a liberal. Calling him anything else ignores what he actually proposes. He wants to regulate capital, not expropriate it. He wants to blunt capitalism's worst edges at home while leaving the imperial core intact. That is social democracy at best, a liberal ideology. His own platform accepts the basic framework of private ownership of the means of production. He seeks to manage the crisis, not resolve its root cause. That is precisely the reformism Luxemburg critiqued a century ago in the work I already recommended. You really should read it. Electoralism under liberal democracy is not a path to socialism. It is a containment strategy. The ballot box is designed to channel dissent into harmless rituals that leave property relations untouched. You think stacking votes can overcome capital's structural power. But capital does not rule through votes. It rules through ownership of production, control of credit, domination of media, and monopoly on organised violence. When the vote threatens those foundations, the mask comes off. The courts block, the capital strikes, the media smears, the state represses. This is not conspiracy. It is the normal functioning of the bourgeois state. Expecting otherwise is like expecting a wolf to vote itself vegetarian. Your entire argument rests on idealist assumptions. You treat consciousness as primary and material conditions as secondary. You think changing minds at the ballot box changes the balance of class forces. That is backwards. Social being determines social consciousness, not the other way around. You mistake the form of democracy for its content. You ignore that the two-party system is a mechanism to limit political competition to factions of capital, not to enable working-class rule. You cite 2016 and 2020 as if they were isolated failures of strategy, not expressions of a system that structurally excludes anti-capitalist politics. You blame the left for "quitting" instead of asking why the electoral arena absorbs and neutralises radical energy every single time. This is not analysis. It is moralising. I am Chinese, not American. We had our revolution. We broke the bourgeois state and built a system where the vote actually means something because it is embedded in democratic centralism and whole-process people's democracy, not trapped in a ballot box ritual that changes nothing. These electoralist squabbles about which faction of capital should manage the American empire are none of my concern outside of the theoretical interest I take in educating and engaging in dialogue with comrades in a much different situation. I know it sounds cliché to say "read theory," but genuinely, every idealist assumption you are recycling has been academically addressed and refuted for decades. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 7 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] eldavi@lemmy.ml 3 points 7 months ago social democrat, not a demsoc this is my first time hearing this. do you know of other sources i can look up to know the difference? permalink fedilink source parent [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 8 points 7 months ago No permalink fedilink source parent [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 5 points 7 months ago (1 child) These smug dipshits may not take your explanations to heart, but know that I am. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 8 points 7 months ago Thank you always happy to hear when people enjoy and/or find my comments insightful. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies)
[–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 14 points 7 months ago (17 children) Name the better alternative permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 17 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] DudleyMason@lemmy.ml 18 points 7 months ago (3 children) But like I said...no one bothered to show up and vote...so we got Biden. That's not even close to what happened. The DNC Leadership chose Biden specifically to stop Bernie. That's why when Biden was in sixth place going in to Super Tuesday every establishment candidate ahead of him bowed out on the same night and gave him their delegates, pushing him from sixth to first, and Warren stayed in to split the progressive vote and push the "Bernie Bros are sexist creeps" narrative. The US is not a Democracy, it's an Oligarchy. Democrats Now Openly Admit They Pushed Biden to Block Bernie https://share.google/zcegH1ZFBvtMJdShZ The U.S. is an Oligarchy? The Research, Explained | RepresentUs https://share.google/WHeE7b3nhnAxZ8sSE permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] eldavi@lemmy.ml 12 points 7 months ago not running a pro-genocide candidate to run against another pro-genocide candidate would be a great start. permalink fedilink source parent [–] DudleyMason@lemmy.ml 8 points 7 months ago (1 child) Are you really suggesting that there isn't a chilling effect on people who want to improve the status quo when they see the party nakedly manipulating the outcome? With this being exactly four years after the DNC nakedly manipulated the system in ways that had since been exhaustively documented, I'd say it massively suppressed the progressive vote, and Warren staying in far too long and splitting that vote before endorsing Biden sealed the deal. Three election cycles in a row the party has nakedly and unashamedly manipulated things to ensure a donor-friendly candidate. In 2024 there wasn't even a primary, despite everyone knowing Biden couldn't handle another campaign. At this point anyone who finds the status quo unacceptable and still votes for the Democrats is obviously a graduate of the Charlie Brown School of Field Goal Kicks. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] DudleyMason@lemmy.ml 7 points 7 months ago Are you really suggesting that those people are being somehow prevented from voting, just because the establishment wants them to stay home? No, I'm suggesting that those people are (correctly) realizing that the game is rigged and refusing to play. Your narrative that progressives could win if they showed up has been repeatedly proven to be a lie, fewer people believe it each election cycle, you cannot change the status quo by doing what the people who profit from the status quo want you to do. The Democrats are not the opposition to the GOP, they are the compliment to them. They exist to make the Wall St agenda palatable by comparison. Their only purpose is to ensure the gullible retain enough faith in the system to prevent any meaningful revolt. permalink fedilink source parent [–] PanArab@lemmy.ml 14 points 7 months ago (2 children) The DNC is a private corporation and would have chosen Biden anyways permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org 8 points 7 months ago (1 child) They managed to successfully convince enough progressives that they could, that people just sat down and stopped fighting Weird way to say got all but the other progressive candidate to drop out, get behind Biden and have the remaining progressive candidate start attacking Bernie permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org 7 points 7 months ago Not really. Dnc could pull another trick like the Iowa app fuck up. Or as others have pointed out they don't even need to follow how voters in the primary or cacuses pick. I'm confused are you arguing the dnc doesn't control who they put on the ticket or that it's the voters fault for how presidential primaries go when it may not even matter by the time they get the opportunity to vote? permalink fedilink source parent [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 13 points 7 months ago (4 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 15 points 7 months ago (1 child) But oh no gaza The fact you can say this about a genocide and people not supporting it's enablers really shows how despicable you are. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 7 points 7 months ago "But oh no Auschwitz🙄" permalink fedilink source parent [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 7 points 7 months ago* (1 child) Those dead iranian school childrens blood is on all the hands that sat back and let or even helped trump into the office. This means that the blood of every dead Gazan is on the hands of everyone who directly voted to enable their slaughter permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Zexks@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago That ven diagram is a circle permalink fedilink source parent [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 20 points 7 months ago (5 children) The best alternative liberal Zionist Bernie Sanders who even if he had received all the votes you wanted would have just been undermined and sabotaged again by the DNC establishment like in 2016. You can't vote the fascism away. The ruling class is not going to politely expropriate themselves. You should read Luxemburg's "reform or revolution". permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 16 points 7 months ago (4 children) Bernie is absolutely a liberal. Calling him anything else ignores what he actually proposes. He wants to regulate capital, not expropriate it. He wants to blunt capitalism's worst edges at home while leaving the imperial core intact. That is social democracy at best, a liberal ideology. His own platform accepts the basic framework of private ownership of the means of production. He seeks to manage the crisis, not resolve its root cause. That is precisely the reformism Luxemburg critiqued a century ago in the work I already recommended. You really should read it. Electoralism under liberal democracy is not a path to socialism. It is a containment strategy. The ballot box is designed to channel dissent into harmless rituals that leave property relations untouched. You think stacking votes can overcome capital's structural power. But capital does not rule through votes. It rules through ownership of production, control of credit, domination of media, and monopoly on organised violence. When the vote threatens those foundations, the mask comes off. The courts block, the capital strikes, the media smears, the state represses. This is not conspiracy. It is the normal functioning of the bourgeois state. Expecting otherwise is like expecting a wolf to vote itself vegetarian. Your entire argument rests on idealist assumptions. You treat consciousness as primary and material conditions as secondary. You think changing minds at the ballot box changes the balance of class forces. That is backwards. Social being determines social consciousness, not the other way around. You mistake the form of democracy for its content. You ignore that the two-party system is a mechanism to limit political competition to factions of capital, not to enable working-class rule. You cite 2016 and 2020 as if they were isolated failures of strategy, not expressions of a system that structurally excludes anti-capitalist politics. You blame the left for "quitting" instead of asking why the electoral arena absorbs and neutralises radical energy every single time. This is not analysis. It is moralising. I am Chinese, not American. We had our revolution. We broke the bourgeois state and built a system where the vote actually means something because it is embedded in democratic centralism and whole-process people's democracy, not trapped in a ballot box ritual that changes nothing. These electoralist squabbles about which faction of capital should manage the American empire are none of my concern outside of the theoretical interest I take in educating and engaging in dialogue with comrades in a much different situation. I know it sounds cliché to say "read theory," but genuinely, every idealist assumption you are recycling has been academically addressed and refuted for decades. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 7 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] eldavi@lemmy.ml 3 points 7 months ago social democrat, not a demsoc this is my first time hearing this. do you know of other sources i can look up to know the difference? permalink fedilink source parent [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 8 points 7 months ago No permalink fedilink source parent [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 5 points 7 months ago (1 child) These smug dipshits may not take your explanations to heart, but know that I am. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 8 points 7 months ago Thank you always happy to hear when people enjoy and/or find my comments insightful. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies)
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] DudleyMason@lemmy.ml 18 points 7 months ago (3 children) But like I said...no one bothered to show up and vote...so we got Biden. That's not even close to what happened. The DNC Leadership chose Biden specifically to stop Bernie. That's why when Biden was in sixth place going in to Super Tuesday every establishment candidate ahead of him bowed out on the same night and gave him their delegates, pushing him from sixth to first, and Warren stayed in to split the progressive vote and push the "Bernie Bros are sexist creeps" narrative. The US is not a Democracy, it's an Oligarchy. Democrats Now Openly Admit They Pushed Biden to Block Bernie https://share.google/zcegH1ZFBvtMJdShZ The U.S. is an Oligarchy? The Research, Explained | RepresentUs https://share.google/WHeE7b3nhnAxZ8sSE permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] eldavi@lemmy.ml 12 points 7 months ago not running a pro-genocide candidate to run against another pro-genocide candidate would be a great start. permalink fedilink source parent [–] DudleyMason@lemmy.ml 8 points 7 months ago (1 child) Are you really suggesting that there isn't a chilling effect on people who want to improve the status quo when they see the party nakedly manipulating the outcome? With this being exactly four years after the DNC nakedly manipulated the system in ways that had since been exhaustively documented, I'd say it massively suppressed the progressive vote, and Warren staying in far too long and splitting that vote before endorsing Biden sealed the deal. Three election cycles in a row the party has nakedly and unashamedly manipulated things to ensure a donor-friendly candidate. In 2024 there wasn't even a primary, despite everyone knowing Biden couldn't handle another campaign. At this point anyone who finds the status quo unacceptable and still votes for the Democrats is obviously a graduate of the Charlie Brown School of Field Goal Kicks. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] DudleyMason@lemmy.ml 7 points 7 months ago Are you really suggesting that those people are being somehow prevented from voting, just because the establishment wants them to stay home? No, I'm suggesting that those people are (correctly) realizing that the game is rigged and refusing to play. Your narrative that progressives could win if they showed up has been repeatedly proven to be a lie, fewer people believe it each election cycle, you cannot change the status quo by doing what the people who profit from the status quo want you to do. The Democrats are not the opposition to the GOP, they are the compliment to them. They exist to make the Wall St agenda palatable by comparison. Their only purpose is to ensure the gullible retain enough faith in the system to prevent any meaningful revolt. permalink fedilink source parent [–] PanArab@lemmy.ml 14 points 7 months ago (2 children) The DNC is a private corporation and would have chosen Biden anyways permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org 8 points 7 months ago (1 child) They managed to successfully convince enough progressives that they could, that people just sat down and stopped fighting Weird way to say got all but the other progressive candidate to drop out, get behind Biden and have the remaining progressive candidate start attacking Bernie permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org 7 points 7 months ago Not really. Dnc could pull another trick like the Iowa app fuck up. Or as others have pointed out they don't even need to follow how voters in the primary or cacuses pick. I'm confused are you arguing the dnc doesn't control who they put on the ticket or that it's the voters fault for how presidential primaries go when it may not even matter by the time they get the opportunity to vote? permalink fedilink source parent [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 13 points 7 months ago (4 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 15 points 7 months ago (1 child) But oh no gaza The fact you can say this about a genocide and people not supporting it's enablers really shows how despicable you are. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 7 points 7 months ago "But oh no Auschwitz🙄" permalink fedilink source parent [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 7 points 7 months ago* (1 child) Those dead iranian school childrens blood is on all the hands that sat back and let or even helped trump into the office. This means that the blood of every dead Gazan is on the hands of everyone who directly voted to enable their slaughter permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Zexks@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago That ven diagram is a circle permalink fedilink source parent [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 20 points 7 months ago (5 children) The best alternative liberal Zionist Bernie Sanders who even if he had received all the votes you wanted would have just been undermined and sabotaged again by the DNC establishment like in 2016. You can't vote the fascism away. The ruling class is not going to politely expropriate themselves. You should read Luxemburg's "reform or revolution". permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 16 points 7 months ago (4 children) Bernie is absolutely a liberal. Calling him anything else ignores what he actually proposes. He wants to regulate capital, not expropriate it. He wants to blunt capitalism's worst edges at home while leaving the imperial core intact. That is social democracy at best, a liberal ideology. His own platform accepts the basic framework of private ownership of the means of production. He seeks to manage the crisis, not resolve its root cause. That is precisely the reformism Luxemburg critiqued a century ago in the work I already recommended. You really should read it. Electoralism under liberal democracy is not a path to socialism. It is a containment strategy. The ballot box is designed to channel dissent into harmless rituals that leave property relations untouched. You think stacking votes can overcome capital's structural power. But capital does not rule through votes. It rules through ownership of production, control of credit, domination of media, and monopoly on organised violence. When the vote threatens those foundations, the mask comes off. The courts block, the capital strikes, the media smears, the state represses. This is not conspiracy. It is the normal functioning of the bourgeois state. Expecting otherwise is like expecting a wolf to vote itself vegetarian. Your entire argument rests on idealist assumptions. You treat consciousness as primary and material conditions as secondary. You think changing minds at the ballot box changes the balance of class forces. That is backwards. Social being determines social consciousness, not the other way around. You mistake the form of democracy for its content. You ignore that the two-party system is a mechanism to limit political competition to factions of capital, not to enable working-class rule. You cite 2016 and 2020 as if they were isolated failures of strategy, not expressions of a system that structurally excludes anti-capitalist politics. You blame the left for "quitting" instead of asking why the electoral arena absorbs and neutralises radical energy every single time. This is not analysis. It is moralising. I am Chinese, not American. We had our revolution. We broke the bourgeois state and built a system where the vote actually means something because it is embedded in democratic centralism and whole-process people's democracy, not trapped in a ballot box ritual that changes nothing. These electoralist squabbles about which faction of capital should manage the American empire are none of my concern outside of the theoretical interest I take in educating and engaging in dialogue with comrades in a much different situation. I know it sounds cliché to say "read theory," but genuinely, every idealist assumption you are recycling has been academically addressed and refuted for decades. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 7 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] eldavi@lemmy.ml 3 points 7 months ago social democrat, not a demsoc this is my first time hearing this. do you know of other sources i can look up to know the difference? permalink fedilink source parent [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 8 points 7 months ago No permalink fedilink source parent [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 5 points 7 months ago (1 child) These smug dipshits may not take your explanations to heart, but know that I am. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 8 points 7 months ago Thank you always happy to hear when people enjoy and/or find my comments insightful. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies)
[–] DudleyMason@lemmy.ml 18 points 7 months ago (3 children) But like I said...no one bothered to show up and vote...so we got Biden. That's not even close to what happened. The DNC Leadership chose Biden specifically to stop Bernie. That's why when Biden was in sixth place going in to Super Tuesday every establishment candidate ahead of him bowed out on the same night and gave him their delegates, pushing him from sixth to first, and Warren stayed in to split the progressive vote and push the "Bernie Bros are sexist creeps" narrative. The US is not a Democracy, it's an Oligarchy. Democrats Now Openly Admit They Pushed Biden to Block Bernie https://share.google/zcegH1ZFBvtMJdShZ The U.S. is an Oligarchy? The Research, Explained | RepresentUs https://share.google/WHeE7b3nhnAxZ8sSE permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] eldavi@lemmy.ml 12 points 7 months ago not running a pro-genocide candidate to run against another pro-genocide candidate would be a great start. permalink fedilink source parent [–] DudleyMason@lemmy.ml 8 points 7 months ago (1 child) Are you really suggesting that there isn't a chilling effect on people who want to improve the status quo when they see the party nakedly manipulating the outcome? With this being exactly four years after the DNC nakedly manipulated the system in ways that had since been exhaustively documented, I'd say it massively suppressed the progressive vote, and Warren staying in far too long and splitting that vote before endorsing Biden sealed the deal. Three election cycles in a row the party has nakedly and unashamedly manipulated things to ensure a donor-friendly candidate. In 2024 there wasn't even a primary, despite everyone knowing Biden couldn't handle another campaign. At this point anyone who finds the status quo unacceptable and still votes for the Democrats is obviously a graduate of the Charlie Brown School of Field Goal Kicks. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] DudleyMason@lemmy.ml 7 points 7 months ago Are you really suggesting that those people are being somehow prevented from voting, just because the establishment wants them to stay home? No, I'm suggesting that those people are (correctly) realizing that the game is rigged and refusing to play. Your narrative that progressives could win if they showed up has been repeatedly proven to be a lie, fewer people believe it each election cycle, you cannot change the status quo by doing what the people who profit from the status quo want you to do. The Democrats are not the opposition to the GOP, they are the compliment to them. They exist to make the Wall St agenda palatable by comparison. Their only purpose is to ensure the gullible retain enough faith in the system to prevent any meaningful revolt. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] eldavi@lemmy.ml 12 points 7 months ago not running a pro-genocide candidate to run against another pro-genocide candidate would be a great start. permalink fedilink source parent [–] DudleyMason@lemmy.ml 8 points 7 months ago (1 child) Are you really suggesting that there isn't a chilling effect on people who want to improve the status quo when they see the party nakedly manipulating the outcome? With this being exactly four years after the DNC nakedly manipulated the system in ways that had since been exhaustively documented, I'd say it massively suppressed the progressive vote, and Warren staying in far too long and splitting that vote before endorsing Biden sealed the deal. Three election cycles in a row the party has nakedly and unashamedly manipulated things to ensure a donor-friendly candidate. In 2024 there wasn't even a primary, despite everyone knowing Biden couldn't handle another campaign. At this point anyone who finds the status quo unacceptable and still votes for the Democrats is obviously a graduate of the Charlie Brown School of Field Goal Kicks. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] DudleyMason@lemmy.ml 7 points 7 months ago Are you really suggesting that those people are being somehow prevented from voting, just because the establishment wants them to stay home? No, I'm suggesting that those people are (correctly) realizing that the game is rigged and refusing to play. Your narrative that progressives could win if they showed up has been repeatedly proven to be a lie, fewer people believe it each election cycle, you cannot change the status quo by doing what the people who profit from the status quo want you to do. The Democrats are not the opposition to the GOP, they are the compliment to them. They exist to make the Wall St agenda palatable by comparison. Their only purpose is to ensure the gullible retain enough faith in the system to prevent any meaningful revolt. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] eldavi@lemmy.ml 12 points 7 months ago not running a pro-genocide candidate to run against another pro-genocide candidate would be a great start. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] DudleyMason@lemmy.ml 8 points 7 months ago (1 child) Are you really suggesting that there isn't a chilling effect on people who want to improve the status quo when they see the party nakedly manipulating the outcome? With this being exactly four years after the DNC nakedly manipulated the system in ways that had since been exhaustively documented, I'd say it massively suppressed the progressive vote, and Warren staying in far too long and splitting that vote before endorsing Biden sealed the deal. Three election cycles in a row the party has nakedly and unashamedly manipulated things to ensure a donor-friendly candidate. In 2024 there wasn't even a primary, despite everyone knowing Biden couldn't handle another campaign. At this point anyone who finds the status quo unacceptable and still votes for the Democrats is obviously a graduate of the Charlie Brown School of Field Goal Kicks. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] DudleyMason@lemmy.ml 7 points 7 months ago Are you really suggesting that those people are being somehow prevented from voting, just because the establishment wants them to stay home? No, I'm suggesting that those people are (correctly) realizing that the game is rigged and refusing to play. Your narrative that progressives could win if they showed up has been repeatedly proven to be a lie, fewer people believe it each election cycle, you cannot change the status quo by doing what the people who profit from the status quo want you to do. The Democrats are not the opposition to the GOP, they are the compliment to them. They exist to make the Wall St agenda palatable by comparison. Their only purpose is to ensure the gullible retain enough faith in the system to prevent any meaningful revolt. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] DudleyMason@lemmy.ml 7 points 7 months ago Are you really suggesting that those people are being somehow prevented from voting, just because the establishment wants them to stay home? No, I'm suggesting that those people are (correctly) realizing that the game is rigged and refusing to play. Your narrative that progressives could win if they showed up has been repeatedly proven to be a lie, fewer people believe it each election cycle, you cannot change the status quo by doing what the people who profit from the status quo want you to do. The Democrats are not the opposition to the GOP, they are the compliment to them. They exist to make the Wall St agenda palatable by comparison. Their only purpose is to ensure the gullible retain enough faith in the system to prevent any meaningful revolt. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] DudleyMason@lemmy.ml 7 points 7 months ago Are you really suggesting that those people are being somehow prevented from voting, just because the establishment wants them to stay home? No, I'm suggesting that those people are (correctly) realizing that the game is rigged and refusing to play. Your narrative that progressives could win if they showed up has been repeatedly proven to be a lie, fewer people believe it each election cycle, you cannot change the status quo by doing what the people who profit from the status quo want you to do. The Democrats are not the opposition to the GOP, they are the compliment to them. They exist to make the Wall St agenda palatable by comparison. Their only purpose is to ensure the gullible retain enough faith in the system to prevent any meaningful revolt. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] PanArab@lemmy.ml 14 points 7 months ago (2 children) The DNC is a private corporation and would have chosen Biden anyways permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org 8 points 7 months ago (1 child) They managed to successfully convince enough progressives that they could, that people just sat down and stopped fighting Weird way to say got all but the other progressive candidate to drop out, get behind Biden and have the remaining progressive candidate start attacking Bernie permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org 7 points 7 months ago Not really. Dnc could pull another trick like the Iowa app fuck up. Or as others have pointed out they don't even need to follow how voters in the primary or cacuses pick. I'm confused are you arguing the dnc doesn't control who they put on the ticket or that it's the voters fault for how presidential primaries go when it may not even matter by the time they get the opportunity to vote? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org 8 points 7 months ago (1 child) They managed to successfully convince enough progressives that they could, that people just sat down and stopped fighting Weird way to say got all but the other progressive candidate to drop out, get behind Biden and have the remaining progressive candidate start attacking Bernie permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org 7 points 7 months ago Not really. Dnc could pull another trick like the Iowa app fuck up. Or as others have pointed out they don't even need to follow how voters in the primary or cacuses pick. I'm confused are you arguing the dnc doesn't control who they put on the ticket or that it's the voters fault for how presidential primaries go when it may not even matter by the time they get the opportunity to vote? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org 8 points 7 months ago (1 child) They managed to successfully convince enough progressives that they could, that people just sat down and stopped fighting Weird way to say got all but the other progressive candidate to drop out, get behind Biden and have the remaining progressive candidate start attacking Bernie permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org 7 points 7 months ago Not really. Dnc could pull another trick like the Iowa app fuck up. Or as others have pointed out they don't even need to follow how voters in the primary or cacuses pick. I'm confused are you arguing the dnc doesn't control who they put on the ticket or that it's the voters fault for how presidential primaries go when it may not even matter by the time they get the opportunity to vote? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org 7 points 7 months ago Not really. Dnc could pull another trick like the Iowa app fuck up. Or as others have pointed out they don't even need to follow how voters in the primary or cacuses pick. I'm confused are you arguing the dnc doesn't control who they put on the ticket or that it's the voters fault for how presidential primaries go when it may not even matter by the time they get the opportunity to vote? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org 7 points 7 months ago Not really. Dnc could pull another trick like the Iowa app fuck up. Or as others have pointed out they don't even need to follow how voters in the primary or cacuses pick. I'm confused are you arguing the dnc doesn't control who they put on the ticket or that it's the voters fault for how presidential primaries go when it may not even matter by the time they get the opportunity to vote? permalink fedilink source parent
[+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 13 points 7 months ago (4 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 15 points 7 months ago (1 child) But oh no gaza The fact you can say this about a genocide and people not supporting it's enablers really shows how despicable you are. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 7 points 7 months ago "But oh no Auschwitz🙄" permalink fedilink source parent [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 7 points 7 months ago* (1 child) Those dead iranian school childrens blood is on all the hands that sat back and let or even helped trump into the office. This means that the blood of every dead Gazan is on the hands of everyone who directly voted to enable their slaughter permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Zexks@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago That ven diagram is a circle permalink fedilink source parent
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 15 points 7 months ago (1 child) But oh no gaza The fact you can say this about a genocide and people not supporting it's enablers really shows how despicable you are. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 7 points 7 months ago "But oh no Auschwitz🙄" permalink fedilink source parent [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 7 points 7 months ago* (1 child) Those dead iranian school childrens blood is on all the hands that sat back and let or even helped trump into the office. This means that the blood of every dead Gazan is on the hands of everyone who directly voted to enable their slaughter permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Zexks@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago That ven diagram is a circle permalink fedilink source parent
[–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 15 points 7 months ago (1 child) But oh no gaza The fact you can say this about a genocide and people not supporting it's enablers really shows how despicable you are. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 7 points 7 months ago "But oh no Auschwitz🙄" permalink fedilink source parent
[–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 7 points 7 months ago* (1 child) Those dead iranian school childrens blood is on all the hands that sat back and let or even helped trump into the office. This means that the blood of every dead Gazan is on the hands of everyone who directly voted to enable their slaughter permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Zexks@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago That ven diagram is a circle permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Zexks@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago That ven diagram is a circle permalink fedilink source parent
[–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 20 points 7 months ago (5 children) The best alternative liberal Zionist Bernie Sanders who even if he had received all the votes you wanted would have just been undermined and sabotaged again by the DNC establishment like in 2016. You can't vote the fascism away. The ruling class is not going to politely expropriate themselves. You should read Luxemburg's "reform or revolution". permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 16 points 7 months ago (4 children) Bernie is absolutely a liberal. Calling him anything else ignores what he actually proposes. He wants to regulate capital, not expropriate it. He wants to blunt capitalism's worst edges at home while leaving the imperial core intact. That is social democracy at best, a liberal ideology. His own platform accepts the basic framework of private ownership of the means of production. He seeks to manage the crisis, not resolve its root cause. That is precisely the reformism Luxemburg critiqued a century ago in the work I already recommended. You really should read it. Electoralism under liberal democracy is not a path to socialism. It is a containment strategy. The ballot box is designed to channel dissent into harmless rituals that leave property relations untouched. You think stacking votes can overcome capital's structural power. But capital does not rule through votes. It rules through ownership of production, control of credit, domination of media, and monopoly on organised violence. When the vote threatens those foundations, the mask comes off. The courts block, the capital strikes, the media smears, the state represses. This is not conspiracy. It is the normal functioning of the bourgeois state. Expecting otherwise is like expecting a wolf to vote itself vegetarian. Your entire argument rests on idealist assumptions. You treat consciousness as primary and material conditions as secondary. You think changing minds at the ballot box changes the balance of class forces. That is backwards. Social being determines social consciousness, not the other way around. You mistake the form of democracy for its content. You ignore that the two-party system is a mechanism to limit political competition to factions of capital, not to enable working-class rule. You cite 2016 and 2020 as if they were isolated failures of strategy, not expressions of a system that structurally excludes anti-capitalist politics. You blame the left for "quitting" instead of asking why the electoral arena absorbs and neutralises radical energy every single time. This is not analysis. It is moralising. I am Chinese, not American. We had our revolution. We broke the bourgeois state and built a system where the vote actually means something because it is embedded in democratic centralism and whole-process people's democracy, not trapped in a ballot box ritual that changes nothing. These electoralist squabbles about which faction of capital should manage the American empire are none of my concern outside of the theoretical interest I take in educating and engaging in dialogue with comrades in a much different situation. I know it sounds cliché to say "read theory," but genuinely, every idealist assumption you are recycling has been academically addressed and refuted for decades. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 7 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] eldavi@lemmy.ml 3 points 7 months ago social democrat, not a demsoc this is my first time hearing this. do you know of other sources i can look up to know the difference? permalink fedilink source parent [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 8 points 7 months ago No permalink fedilink source parent [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 5 points 7 months ago (1 child) These smug dipshits may not take your explanations to heart, but know that I am. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 8 points 7 months ago Thank you always happy to hear when people enjoy and/or find my comments insightful. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies)
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 16 points 7 months ago (4 children) Bernie is absolutely a liberal. Calling him anything else ignores what he actually proposes. He wants to regulate capital, not expropriate it. He wants to blunt capitalism's worst edges at home while leaving the imperial core intact. That is social democracy at best, a liberal ideology. His own platform accepts the basic framework of private ownership of the means of production. He seeks to manage the crisis, not resolve its root cause. That is precisely the reformism Luxemburg critiqued a century ago in the work I already recommended. You really should read it. Electoralism under liberal democracy is not a path to socialism. It is a containment strategy. The ballot box is designed to channel dissent into harmless rituals that leave property relations untouched. You think stacking votes can overcome capital's structural power. But capital does not rule through votes. It rules through ownership of production, control of credit, domination of media, and monopoly on organised violence. When the vote threatens those foundations, the mask comes off. The courts block, the capital strikes, the media smears, the state represses. This is not conspiracy. It is the normal functioning of the bourgeois state. Expecting otherwise is like expecting a wolf to vote itself vegetarian. Your entire argument rests on idealist assumptions. You treat consciousness as primary and material conditions as secondary. You think changing minds at the ballot box changes the balance of class forces. That is backwards. Social being determines social consciousness, not the other way around. You mistake the form of democracy for its content. You ignore that the two-party system is a mechanism to limit political competition to factions of capital, not to enable working-class rule. You cite 2016 and 2020 as if they were isolated failures of strategy, not expressions of a system that structurally excludes anti-capitalist politics. You blame the left for "quitting" instead of asking why the electoral arena absorbs and neutralises radical energy every single time. This is not analysis. It is moralising. I am Chinese, not American. We had our revolution. We broke the bourgeois state and built a system where the vote actually means something because it is embedded in democratic centralism and whole-process people's democracy, not trapped in a ballot box ritual that changes nothing. These electoralist squabbles about which faction of capital should manage the American empire are none of my concern outside of the theoretical interest I take in educating and engaging in dialogue with comrades in a much different situation. I know it sounds cliché to say "read theory," but genuinely, every idealist assumption you are recycling has been academically addressed and refuted for decades. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 7 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] eldavi@lemmy.ml 3 points 7 months ago social democrat, not a demsoc this is my first time hearing this. do you know of other sources i can look up to know the difference? permalink fedilink source parent [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 8 points 7 months ago No permalink fedilink source parent [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 5 points 7 months ago (1 child) These smug dipshits may not take your explanations to heart, but know that I am. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 8 points 7 months ago Thank you always happy to hear when people enjoy and/or find my comments insightful. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies)
[–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 16 points 7 months ago (4 children) Bernie is absolutely a liberal. Calling him anything else ignores what he actually proposes. He wants to regulate capital, not expropriate it. He wants to blunt capitalism's worst edges at home while leaving the imperial core intact. That is social democracy at best, a liberal ideology. His own platform accepts the basic framework of private ownership of the means of production. He seeks to manage the crisis, not resolve its root cause. That is precisely the reformism Luxemburg critiqued a century ago in the work I already recommended. You really should read it. Electoralism under liberal democracy is not a path to socialism. It is a containment strategy. The ballot box is designed to channel dissent into harmless rituals that leave property relations untouched. You think stacking votes can overcome capital's structural power. But capital does not rule through votes. It rules through ownership of production, control of credit, domination of media, and monopoly on organised violence. When the vote threatens those foundations, the mask comes off. The courts block, the capital strikes, the media smears, the state represses. This is not conspiracy. It is the normal functioning of the bourgeois state. Expecting otherwise is like expecting a wolf to vote itself vegetarian. Your entire argument rests on idealist assumptions. You treat consciousness as primary and material conditions as secondary. You think changing minds at the ballot box changes the balance of class forces. That is backwards. Social being determines social consciousness, not the other way around. You mistake the form of democracy for its content. You ignore that the two-party system is a mechanism to limit political competition to factions of capital, not to enable working-class rule. You cite 2016 and 2020 as if they were isolated failures of strategy, not expressions of a system that structurally excludes anti-capitalist politics. You blame the left for "quitting" instead of asking why the electoral arena absorbs and neutralises radical energy every single time. This is not analysis. It is moralising. I am Chinese, not American. We had our revolution. We broke the bourgeois state and built a system where the vote actually means something because it is embedded in democratic centralism and whole-process people's democracy, not trapped in a ballot box ritual that changes nothing. These electoralist squabbles about which faction of capital should manage the American empire are none of my concern outside of the theoretical interest I take in educating and engaging in dialogue with comrades in a much different situation. I know it sounds cliché to say "read theory," but genuinely, every idealist assumption you are recycling has been academically addressed and refuted for decades. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 7 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] eldavi@lemmy.ml 3 points 7 months ago social democrat, not a demsoc this is my first time hearing this. do you know of other sources i can look up to know the difference? permalink fedilink source parent [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 8 points 7 months ago No permalink fedilink source parent [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 5 points 7 months ago (1 child) These smug dipshits may not take your explanations to heart, but know that I am. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 8 points 7 months ago Thank you always happy to hear when people enjoy and/or find my comments insightful. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies)
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 7 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] eldavi@lemmy.ml 3 points 7 months ago social democrat, not a demsoc this is my first time hearing this. do you know of other sources i can look up to know the difference? permalink fedilink source parent [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 8 points 7 months ago No permalink fedilink source parent
[+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 7 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] eldavi@lemmy.ml 3 points 7 months ago social democrat, not a demsoc this is my first time hearing this. do you know of other sources i can look up to know the difference? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] eldavi@lemmy.ml 3 points 7 months ago social democrat, not a demsoc this is my first time hearing this. do you know of other sources i can look up to know the difference? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 5 points 7 months ago (1 child) These smug dipshits may not take your explanations to heart, but know that I am. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 8 points 7 months ago Thank you always happy to hear when people enjoy and/or find my comments insightful. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 8 points 7 months ago Thank you always happy to hear when people enjoy and/or find my comments insightful. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 23 points 7 months ago (18 children) We get it, you're still mad at the commies for not falling in line behind Girlboss Hitler permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 18 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] PanArab@lemmy.ml 18 points 7 months ago Democrats have been just as bad as Republicans when it comes to Central and West Asia. Just because you think people there don't matter doesn't mean everyone does permalink fedilink source parent [–] eldavi@lemmy.ml 13 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (8 children) ... from a historical standpoint, Fascists hate Liberals ... they're the same thing where it matters; you need to go back and study history that isn't written by a capitalist. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 7 months ago (8 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 10 points 7 months ago (6 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 9 points 7 months ago (4 children) Lol! Wut? The Soviets didn't form an "anti-Nazi alliance"…they were allied with the Nazis. They made a deal with them to carve up Eastern Europe between their two empires. This was literally the same cynical opportunism that led the Americans to give sanctuary to Nazi scientists after the war. If this means that Liberals are somehow naturally aligned with fascism, in your mind…then so are Communists, by the same criteria. It simply isn't true, either way. It's amazing that every comment you post is so embarrassingly wrong. The USSR spent years trying to build an anti-Nazi alliance. 1933 they proposed collective security at the League of Nations. 1935 they signed mutual defense pacts with France and Czechoslovakia. Spring 1939 they sat in Moscow for months begging Britain and France for a real triple alliance. The West stalled. Refused to guarantee the Baltics. Refused to let the Red Army cross Poland to actually fight Hitler. Poland's elite, more scared of workers than of Nazis, said no too and instead joined Hitler in attacking Czechoslovakia. The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact happened because liberals handed Hitler Eastern Europe rather than work with socialists. When Soviet troops entered eastern Poland September 17 1939, the Polish state had already collapsed. Government fled to Romania September 15. Warsaw was burning. The army was broken. The lands the USSR moved into? Not Poland proper. Territories Poland had seized and occupied by force in 1919-1921 from Belarus, Ukraine, and Lithuania. And spare me the nonsense about liberals and fascists. They share a foundation: defense of capitalist property. When capital feels threatened, liberalism drops the mask. Chile 1973. Indonesia 1965. Greece 1967. The Soviet Union abolished the capitalist class. That is a total category difference. Then there is denazification. The contrast couldn't be clearer. In the Soviet zone, former Nazis went to labor camps. They worked. They earned minimum wage like other inmates. In the West? Operation Paperclip handed over 1,600+ Nazi scientists, officers, and spies. Wernher von Braun, who used slave labor to build V-2 rockets, became head of NASA's Apollo program. Adolf Heusinger, Hitler's Chief of the General Staff, became Chairman of the NATO Military Committee. Johannes Steinhoff, Nazi ace, also chaired NATO's military committee. Heinz Reinefarth, who massacred civilians in Warsaw, became a respected mayor in West Germany. I genuinely cannot fathom how someone can be this historically, politically, and materially illiterate and still type with such confidence. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 7 points 7 months ago (3 children) Did you actually read what I wrote or just skim for a keyword? Yes, the USSR ran Operation Osoaviakhim. They relocated German specialists. And then those specialists were forced to worked in research institutes under massive scrutiny and supervision for minimum wage where they would be executed if they refused to work. Not one of them was made head of the Soviet rocket program. Not one was given a seat on the Central Committee. Not one was appointed to command Warsaw Pact forces. The Soviet system used their technical labor under massive constraint and threat. The Western system restored their class power. Wernher von Braun didn't just "work" for NASA. He was a leader. Adolf Heusinger didn't just "consult" for NATO. He chaired its Military Committee. These weren't technicians in a lab. They were architects of policy, strategy, and rearmament. You call that "identical." That's not analysis. That's surrendering to bourgeois propaganda. One system subordinated former fascists to the dictatorship of the proletariat. The other subordinated the postwar order to former fascists. If you can't grasp that distinction, no amount of facts will help you. But please, keep typing. It's instructive. I personally couldn't imagine being so arrogant and idiotic as to embarrass myself to the level you have throughout this thread. You really are showing how you have somewhere between 0 and a negative understanding of history and honestly reality and might possibly be illiterate. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 6 points 7 months ago (2 children) This is basically just propaganda speak, for “my side can’t do bad things, only your side can” No it's the historical record of what actually happened. The fact you don't like it and wish all countries and systems were equally bad when it comes to fascism doesn't change that. The USSR for it's many faults was absolutely antifascist pre, during and post war. You are exhausting. So arrogant and so utterly wrong. You should be embarrassed I'm surprised the embarrassment hasn't won out and stopped you from spouting nonsense at least for a bit but I suppose you're still in the denial phase. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 4 points 7 months ago (1 child) You are conveniently omitting the fact that the Soviet Union had nearly identical programs running in parallel to the US. But they weren't identical that's the whole point I'm making please actually read what I said. I know reading might be hard but you are just wasting your time typing nonsense because you seemingly can't grasp what I'm saying In this case it’s cartoonishly obvious by the fact that your argument is so completely one-sided. In the case of the Nazis and fascism reality was "cartoonishly onesided". Again as I said the USSR for its many faults was absolutely antifascist whereas the US/Europe were categorically not. Look into operation gladio. Look into the history of Ford and IBM with regards to the Nazis not just pre war but during the war. Look at the difference between operation Paperclip and Osoaviakhim. If you think an accurate portrayal of reality is propaganda you really should do some introspection on what you believe, where you learned it etc. You have been embarrassingly wrong in basically every comment I've seen. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9skyguy0@lemmy.ml 2 points 7 months ago I hadn't known this about how the Soviets treated Nazis before and after the war. It's good to learn this and I really enjoy seeing your analysis and rebuttals. permalink fedilink source parent [–] DudleyMason@lemmy.ml 6 points 7 months ago Thanks for proving you're as illiterate about history as you are about politics. Now there's almost no chance any serious adults accidentally think you have anything intelligent to say. permalink fedilink source parent [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 5 points 7 months ago (1 child) Historical illiteracy and false equivalence. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies) [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 14 points 7 months ago the difference between a Liberal and a literal Fascist. Haha, lol, lmao even Free Palestine permalink fedilink source parent [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 22 points 7 months ago (2 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 21 points 7 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 15 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) So, your only solution is violence? Not solidarity? You voted for a genocide as a solution instead of having solidarity with it's victims. Because you wanted to go back to not caring about politics. permalink fedilink source parent [–] astutemural@midwest.social 6 points 7 months ago Really? That's funny, I seem to remember the DNC canceling the primary last election. Huh. Odd for a party where, "the voters decide who makes up the party". permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) [–] Catgrass@lemmy.world 15 points 7 months ago "scratch a liberal, a fascist bleeds" permalink fedilink source parent [–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 14 points 7 months ago* (3 children) Your good guys literally committed a genocide. You're a fucking clown. No. I’m mad that the American left is so politically uneducated that they can’t tell the difference between a Liberal and a literal Fascist. GUESS THE DIFFERENCE ISN'T FUCKING GENOCIDE from a historical standpoint The raw fucking irony of whining about people's political literacy and then saying this shit. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 10 points 7 months ago Oh, are israeli propagandists bad or something? Is it a mark on your character to support them or something? permalink fedilink source parent [–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 10 points 7 months ago* (1 child) What the fuck do you think the word nuance means, you fucking idiot? Since the rest of your comment is just smugly talking to yourself, totally nailing the vapid ignorance. "Um actually the people you don't like would like you because you were mean to me" stupid fucking baby. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 10 points 7 months ago We slaughtered a hundred thousand or so but we didn't say fuck words, it's very nuanced honey permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies)
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] PanArab@lemmy.ml 18 points 7 months ago Democrats have been just as bad as Republicans when it comes to Central and West Asia. Just because you think people there don't matter doesn't mean everyone does permalink fedilink source parent [–] eldavi@lemmy.ml 13 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (8 children) ... from a historical standpoint, Fascists hate Liberals ... they're the same thing where it matters; you need to go back and study history that isn't written by a capitalist. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 7 months ago (8 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 10 points 7 months ago (6 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 9 points 7 months ago (4 children) Lol! Wut? The Soviets didn't form an "anti-Nazi alliance"…they were allied with the Nazis. They made a deal with them to carve up Eastern Europe between their two empires. This was literally the same cynical opportunism that led the Americans to give sanctuary to Nazi scientists after the war. If this means that Liberals are somehow naturally aligned with fascism, in your mind…then so are Communists, by the same criteria. It simply isn't true, either way. It's amazing that every comment you post is so embarrassingly wrong. The USSR spent years trying to build an anti-Nazi alliance. 1933 they proposed collective security at the League of Nations. 1935 they signed mutual defense pacts with France and Czechoslovakia. Spring 1939 they sat in Moscow for months begging Britain and France for a real triple alliance. The West stalled. Refused to guarantee the Baltics. Refused to let the Red Army cross Poland to actually fight Hitler. Poland's elite, more scared of workers than of Nazis, said no too and instead joined Hitler in attacking Czechoslovakia. The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact happened because liberals handed Hitler Eastern Europe rather than work with socialists. When Soviet troops entered eastern Poland September 17 1939, the Polish state had already collapsed. Government fled to Romania September 15. Warsaw was burning. The army was broken. The lands the USSR moved into? Not Poland proper. Territories Poland had seized and occupied by force in 1919-1921 from Belarus, Ukraine, and Lithuania. And spare me the nonsense about liberals and fascists. They share a foundation: defense of capitalist property. When capital feels threatened, liberalism drops the mask. Chile 1973. Indonesia 1965. Greece 1967. The Soviet Union abolished the capitalist class. That is a total category difference. Then there is denazification. The contrast couldn't be clearer. In the Soviet zone, former Nazis went to labor camps. They worked. They earned minimum wage like other inmates. In the West? Operation Paperclip handed over 1,600+ Nazi scientists, officers, and spies. Wernher von Braun, who used slave labor to build V-2 rockets, became head of NASA's Apollo program. Adolf Heusinger, Hitler's Chief of the General Staff, became Chairman of the NATO Military Committee. Johannes Steinhoff, Nazi ace, also chaired NATO's military committee. Heinz Reinefarth, who massacred civilians in Warsaw, became a respected mayor in West Germany. I genuinely cannot fathom how someone can be this historically, politically, and materially illiterate and still type with such confidence. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 7 points 7 months ago (3 children) Did you actually read what I wrote or just skim for a keyword? Yes, the USSR ran Operation Osoaviakhim. They relocated German specialists. And then those specialists were forced to worked in research institutes under massive scrutiny and supervision for minimum wage where they would be executed if they refused to work. Not one of them was made head of the Soviet rocket program. Not one was given a seat on the Central Committee. Not one was appointed to command Warsaw Pact forces. The Soviet system used their technical labor under massive constraint and threat. The Western system restored their class power. Wernher von Braun didn't just "work" for NASA. He was a leader. Adolf Heusinger didn't just "consult" for NATO. He chaired its Military Committee. These weren't technicians in a lab. They were architects of policy, strategy, and rearmament. You call that "identical." That's not analysis. That's surrendering to bourgeois propaganda. One system subordinated former fascists to the dictatorship of the proletariat. The other subordinated the postwar order to former fascists. If you can't grasp that distinction, no amount of facts will help you. But please, keep typing. It's instructive. I personally couldn't imagine being so arrogant and idiotic as to embarrass myself to the level you have throughout this thread. You really are showing how you have somewhere between 0 and a negative understanding of history and honestly reality and might possibly be illiterate. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 6 points 7 months ago (2 children) This is basically just propaganda speak, for “my side can’t do bad things, only your side can” No it's the historical record of what actually happened. The fact you don't like it and wish all countries and systems were equally bad when it comes to fascism doesn't change that. The USSR for it's many faults was absolutely antifascist pre, during and post war. You are exhausting. So arrogant and so utterly wrong. You should be embarrassed I'm surprised the embarrassment hasn't won out and stopped you from spouting nonsense at least for a bit but I suppose you're still in the denial phase. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 4 points 7 months ago (1 child) You are conveniently omitting the fact that the Soviet Union had nearly identical programs running in parallel to the US. But they weren't identical that's the whole point I'm making please actually read what I said. I know reading might be hard but you are just wasting your time typing nonsense because you seemingly can't grasp what I'm saying In this case it’s cartoonishly obvious by the fact that your argument is so completely one-sided. In the case of the Nazis and fascism reality was "cartoonishly onesided". Again as I said the USSR for its many faults was absolutely antifascist whereas the US/Europe were categorically not. Look into operation gladio. Look into the history of Ford and IBM with regards to the Nazis not just pre war but during the war. Look at the difference between operation Paperclip and Osoaviakhim. If you think an accurate portrayal of reality is propaganda you really should do some introspection on what you believe, where you learned it etc. You have been embarrassingly wrong in basically every comment I've seen. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9skyguy0@lemmy.ml 2 points 7 months ago I hadn't known this about how the Soviets treated Nazis before and after the war. It's good to learn this and I really enjoy seeing your analysis and rebuttals. permalink fedilink source parent [–] DudleyMason@lemmy.ml 6 points 7 months ago Thanks for proving you're as illiterate about history as you are about politics. Now there's almost no chance any serious adults accidentally think you have anything intelligent to say. permalink fedilink source parent [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 5 points 7 months ago (1 child) Historical illiteracy and false equivalence. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies) [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 14 points 7 months ago the difference between a Liberal and a literal Fascist. Haha, lol, lmao even Free Palestine permalink fedilink source parent [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 22 points 7 months ago (2 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 21 points 7 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 15 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) So, your only solution is violence? Not solidarity? You voted for a genocide as a solution instead of having solidarity with it's victims. Because you wanted to go back to not caring about politics. permalink fedilink source parent [–] astutemural@midwest.social 6 points 7 months ago Really? That's funny, I seem to remember the DNC canceling the primary last election. Huh. Odd for a party where, "the voters decide who makes up the party". permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) [–] Catgrass@lemmy.world 15 points 7 months ago "scratch a liberal, a fascist bleeds" permalink fedilink source parent [–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 14 points 7 months ago* (3 children) Your good guys literally committed a genocide. You're a fucking clown. No. I’m mad that the American left is so politically uneducated that they can’t tell the difference between a Liberal and a literal Fascist. GUESS THE DIFFERENCE ISN'T FUCKING GENOCIDE from a historical standpoint The raw fucking irony of whining about people's political literacy and then saying this shit. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 10 points 7 months ago Oh, are israeli propagandists bad or something? Is it a mark on your character to support them or something? permalink fedilink source parent [–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 10 points 7 months ago* (1 child) What the fuck do you think the word nuance means, you fucking idiot? Since the rest of your comment is just smugly talking to yourself, totally nailing the vapid ignorance. "Um actually the people you don't like would like you because you were mean to me" stupid fucking baby. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 10 points 7 months ago We slaughtered a hundred thousand or so but we didn't say fuck words, it's very nuanced honey permalink fedilink source parent
[–] PanArab@lemmy.ml 18 points 7 months ago Democrats have been just as bad as Republicans when it comes to Central and West Asia. Just because you think people there don't matter doesn't mean everyone does permalink fedilink source parent
[–] eldavi@lemmy.ml 13 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (8 children) ... from a historical standpoint, Fascists hate Liberals ... they're the same thing where it matters; you need to go back and study history that isn't written by a capitalist. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 7 months ago (8 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 10 points 7 months ago (6 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 9 points 7 months ago (4 children) Lol! Wut? The Soviets didn't form an "anti-Nazi alliance"…they were allied with the Nazis. They made a deal with them to carve up Eastern Europe between their two empires. This was literally the same cynical opportunism that led the Americans to give sanctuary to Nazi scientists after the war. If this means that Liberals are somehow naturally aligned with fascism, in your mind…then so are Communists, by the same criteria. It simply isn't true, either way. It's amazing that every comment you post is so embarrassingly wrong. The USSR spent years trying to build an anti-Nazi alliance. 1933 they proposed collective security at the League of Nations. 1935 they signed mutual defense pacts with France and Czechoslovakia. Spring 1939 they sat in Moscow for months begging Britain and France for a real triple alliance. The West stalled. Refused to guarantee the Baltics. Refused to let the Red Army cross Poland to actually fight Hitler. Poland's elite, more scared of workers than of Nazis, said no too and instead joined Hitler in attacking Czechoslovakia. The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact happened because liberals handed Hitler Eastern Europe rather than work with socialists. When Soviet troops entered eastern Poland September 17 1939, the Polish state had already collapsed. Government fled to Romania September 15. Warsaw was burning. The army was broken. The lands the USSR moved into? Not Poland proper. Territories Poland had seized and occupied by force in 1919-1921 from Belarus, Ukraine, and Lithuania. And spare me the nonsense about liberals and fascists. They share a foundation: defense of capitalist property. When capital feels threatened, liberalism drops the mask. Chile 1973. Indonesia 1965. Greece 1967. The Soviet Union abolished the capitalist class. That is a total category difference. Then there is denazification. The contrast couldn't be clearer. In the Soviet zone, former Nazis went to labor camps. They worked. They earned minimum wage like other inmates. In the West? Operation Paperclip handed over 1,600+ Nazi scientists, officers, and spies. Wernher von Braun, who used slave labor to build V-2 rockets, became head of NASA's Apollo program. Adolf Heusinger, Hitler's Chief of the General Staff, became Chairman of the NATO Military Committee. Johannes Steinhoff, Nazi ace, also chaired NATO's military committee. Heinz Reinefarth, who massacred civilians in Warsaw, became a respected mayor in West Germany. I genuinely cannot fathom how someone can be this historically, politically, and materially illiterate and still type with such confidence. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 7 points 7 months ago (3 children) Did you actually read what I wrote or just skim for a keyword? Yes, the USSR ran Operation Osoaviakhim. They relocated German specialists. And then those specialists were forced to worked in research institutes under massive scrutiny and supervision for minimum wage where they would be executed if they refused to work. Not one of them was made head of the Soviet rocket program. Not one was given a seat on the Central Committee. Not one was appointed to command Warsaw Pact forces. The Soviet system used their technical labor under massive constraint and threat. The Western system restored their class power. Wernher von Braun didn't just "work" for NASA. He was a leader. Adolf Heusinger didn't just "consult" for NATO. He chaired its Military Committee. These weren't technicians in a lab. They were architects of policy, strategy, and rearmament. You call that "identical." That's not analysis. That's surrendering to bourgeois propaganda. One system subordinated former fascists to the dictatorship of the proletariat. The other subordinated the postwar order to former fascists. If you can't grasp that distinction, no amount of facts will help you. But please, keep typing. It's instructive. I personally couldn't imagine being so arrogant and idiotic as to embarrass myself to the level you have throughout this thread. You really are showing how you have somewhere between 0 and a negative understanding of history and honestly reality and might possibly be illiterate. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 6 points 7 months ago (2 children) This is basically just propaganda speak, for “my side can’t do bad things, only your side can” No it's the historical record of what actually happened. The fact you don't like it and wish all countries and systems were equally bad when it comes to fascism doesn't change that. The USSR for it's many faults was absolutely antifascist pre, during and post war. You are exhausting. So arrogant and so utterly wrong. You should be embarrassed I'm surprised the embarrassment hasn't won out and stopped you from spouting nonsense at least for a bit but I suppose you're still in the denial phase. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 4 points 7 months ago (1 child) You are conveniently omitting the fact that the Soviet Union had nearly identical programs running in parallel to the US. But they weren't identical that's the whole point I'm making please actually read what I said. I know reading might be hard but you are just wasting your time typing nonsense because you seemingly can't grasp what I'm saying In this case it’s cartoonishly obvious by the fact that your argument is so completely one-sided. In the case of the Nazis and fascism reality was "cartoonishly onesided". Again as I said the USSR for its many faults was absolutely antifascist whereas the US/Europe were categorically not. Look into operation gladio. Look into the history of Ford and IBM with regards to the Nazis not just pre war but during the war. Look at the difference between operation Paperclip and Osoaviakhim. If you think an accurate portrayal of reality is propaganda you really should do some introspection on what you believe, where you learned it etc. You have been embarrassingly wrong in basically every comment I've seen. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9skyguy0@lemmy.ml 2 points 7 months ago I hadn't known this about how the Soviets treated Nazis before and after the war. It's good to learn this and I really enjoy seeing your analysis and rebuttals. permalink fedilink source parent [–] DudleyMason@lemmy.ml 6 points 7 months ago Thanks for proving you're as illiterate about history as you are about politics. Now there's almost no chance any serious adults accidentally think you have anything intelligent to say. permalink fedilink source parent [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 5 points 7 months ago (1 child) Historical illiteracy and false equivalence. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies)
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 7 months ago (8 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 10 points 7 months ago (6 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 9 points 7 months ago (4 children) Lol! Wut? The Soviets didn't form an "anti-Nazi alliance"…they were allied with the Nazis. They made a deal with them to carve up Eastern Europe between their two empires. This was literally the same cynical opportunism that led the Americans to give sanctuary to Nazi scientists after the war. If this means that Liberals are somehow naturally aligned with fascism, in your mind…then so are Communists, by the same criteria. It simply isn't true, either way. It's amazing that every comment you post is so embarrassingly wrong. The USSR spent years trying to build an anti-Nazi alliance. 1933 they proposed collective security at the League of Nations. 1935 they signed mutual defense pacts with France and Czechoslovakia. Spring 1939 they sat in Moscow for months begging Britain and France for a real triple alliance. The West stalled. Refused to guarantee the Baltics. Refused to let the Red Army cross Poland to actually fight Hitler. Poland's elite, more scared of workers than of Nazis, said no too and instead joined Hitler in attacking Czechoslovakia. The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact happened because liberals handed Hitler Eastern Europe rather than work with socialists. When Soviet troops entered eastern Poland September 17 1939, the Polish state had already collapsed. Government fled to Romania September 15. Warsaw was burning. The army was broken. The lands the USSR moved into? Not Poland proper. Territories Poland had seized and occupied by force in 1919-1921 from Belarus, Ukraine, and Lithuania. And spare me the nonsense about liberals and fascists. They share a foundation: defense of capitalist property. When capital feels threatened, liberalism drops the mask. Chile 1973. Indonesia 1965. Greece 1967. The Soviet Union abolished the capitalist class. That is a total category difference. Then there is denazification. The contrast couldn't be clearer. In the Soviet zone, former Nazis went to labor camps. They worked. They earned minimum wage like other inmates. In the West? Operation Paperclip handed over 1,600+ Nazi scientists, officers, and spies. Wernher von Braun, who used slave labor to build V-2 rockets, became head of NASA's Apollo program. Adolf Heusinger, Hitler's Chief of the General Staff, became Chairman of the NATO Military Committee. Johannes Steinhoff, Nazi ace, also chaired NATO's military committee. Heinz Reinefarth, who massacred civilians in Warsaw, became a respected mayor in West Germany. I genuinely cannot fathom how someone can be this historically, politically, and materially illiterate and still type with such confidence. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 7 points 7 months ago (3 children) Did you actually read what I wrote or just skim for a keyword? Yes, the USSR ran Operation Osoaviakhim. They relocated German specialists. And then those specialists were forced to worked in research institutes under massive scrutiny and supervision for minimum wage where they would be executed if they refused to work. Not one of them was made head of the Soviet rocket program. Not one was given a seat on the Central Committee. Not one was appointed to command Warsaw Pact forces. The Soviet system used their technical labor under massive constraint and threat. The Western system restored their class power. Wernher von Braun didn't just "work" for NASA. He was a leader. Adolf Heusinger didn't just "consult" for NATO. He chaired its Military Committee. These weren't technicians in a lab. They were architects of policy, strategy, and rearmament. You call that "identical." That's not analysis. That's surrendering to bourgeois propaganda. One system subordinated former fascists to the dictatorship of the proletariat. The other subordinated the postwar order to former fascists. If you can't grasp that distinction, no amount of facts will help you. But please, keep typing. It's instructive. I personally couldn't imagine being so arrogant and idiotic as to embarrass myself to the level you have throughout this thread. You really are showing how you have somewhere between 0 and a negative understanding of history and honestly reality and might possibly be illiterate. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 6 points 7 months ago (2 children) This is basically just propaganda speak, for “my side can’t do bad things, only your side can” No it's the historical record of what actually happened. The fact you don't like it and wish all countries and systems were equally bad when it comes to fascism doesn't change that. The USSR for it's many faults was absolutely antifascist pre, during and post war. You are exhausting. So arrogant and so utterly wrong. You should be embarrassed I'm surprised the embarrassment hasn't won out and stopped you from spouting nonsense at least for a bit but I suppose you're still in the denial phase. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 4 points 7 months ago (1 child) You are conveniently omitting the fact that the Soviet Union had nearly identical programs running in parallel to the US. But they weren't identical that's the whole point I'm making please actually read what I said. I know reading might be hard but you are just wasting your time typing nonsense because you seemingly can't grasp what I'm saying In this case it’s cartoonishly obvious by the fact that your argument is so completely one-sided. In the case of the Nazis and fascism reality was "cartoonishly onesided". Again as I said the USSR for its many faults was absolutely antifascist whereas the US/Europe were categorically not. Look into operation gladio. Look into the history of Ford and IBM with regards to the Nazis not just pre war but during the war. Look at the difference between operation Paperclip and Osoaviakhim. If you think an accurate portrayal of reality is propaganda you really should do some introspection on what you believe, where you learned it etc. You have been embarrassingly wrong in basically every comment I've seen. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9skyguy0@lemmy.ml 2 points 7 months ago I hadn't known this about how the Soviets treated Nazis before and after the war. It's good to learn this and I really enjoy seeing your analysis and rebuttals. permalink fedilink source parent [–] DudleyMason@lemmy.ml 6 points 7 months ago Thanks for proving you're as illiterate about history as you are about politics. Now there's almost no chance any serious adults accidentally think you have anything intelligent to say. permalink fedilink source parent [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 5 points 7 months ago (1 child) Historical illiteracy and false equivalence. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (-1 replies)
[+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 7 months ago (8 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 10 points 7 months ago (6 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 9 points 7 months ago (4 children) Lol! Wut? The Soviets didn't form an "anti-Nazi alliance"…they were allied with the Nazis. They made a deal with them to carve up Eastern Europe between their two empires. This was literally the same cynical opportunism that led the Americans to give sanctuary to Nazi scientists after the war. If this means that Liberals are somehow naturally aligned with fascism, in your mind…then so are Communists, by the same criteria. It simply isn't true, either way. It's amazing that every comment you post is so embarrassingly wrong. The USSR spent years trying to build an anti-Nazi alliance. 1933 they proposed collective security at the League of Nations. 1935 they signed mutual defense pacts with France and Czechoslovakia. Spring 1939 they sat in Moscow for months begging Britain and France for a real triple alliance. The West stalled. Refused to guarantee the Baltics. Refused to let the Red Army cross Poland to actually fight Hitler. Poland's elite, more scared of workers than of Nazis, said no too and instead joined Hitler in attacking Czechoslovakia. The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact happened because liberals handed Hitler Eastern Europe rather than work with socialists. When Soviet troops entered eastern Poland September 17 1939, the Polish state had already collapsed. Government fled to Romania September 15. Warsaw was burning. The army was broken. The lands the USSR moved into? Not Poland proper. Territories Poland had seized and occupied by force in 1919-1921 from Belarus, Ukraine, and Lithuania. And spare me the nonsense about liberals and fascists. They share a foundation: defense of capitalist property. When capital feels threatened, liberalism drops the mask. Chile 1973. Indonesia 1965. Greece 1967. The Soviet Union abolished the capitalist class. That is a total category difference. Then there is denazification. The contrast couldn't be clearer. In the Soviet zone, former Nazis went to labor camps. They worked. They earned minimum wage like other inmates. In the West? Operation Paperclip handed over 1,600+ Nazi scientists, officers, and spies. Wernher von Braun, who used slave labor to build V-2 rockets, became head of NASA's Apollo program. Adolf Heusinger, Hitler's Chief of the General Staff, became Chairman of the NATO Military Committee. Johannes Steinhoff, Nazi ace, also chaired NATO's military committee. Heinz Reinefarth, who massacred civilians in Warsaw, became a respected mayor in West Germany. I genuinely cannot fathom how someone can be this historically, politically, and materially illiterate and still type with such confidence. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 7 points 7 months ago (3 children) Did you actually read what I wrote or just skim for a keyword? Yes, the USSR ran Operation Osoaviakhim. They relocated German specialists. And then those specialists were forced to worked in research institutes under massive scrutiny and supervision for minimum wage where they would be executed if they refused to work. Not one of them was made head of the Soviet rocket program. Not one was given a seat on the Central Committee. Not one was appointed to command Warsaw Pact forces. The Soviet system used their technical labor under massive constraint and threat. The Western system restored their class power. Wernher von Braun didn't just "work" for NASA. He was a leader. Adolf Heusinger didn't just "consult" for NATO. He chaired its Military Committee. These weren't technicians in a lab. They were architects of policy, strategy, and rearmament. You call that "identical." That's not analysis. That's surrendering to bourgeois propaganda. One system subordinated former fascists to the dictatorship of the proletariat. The other subordinated the postwar order to former fascists. If you can't grasp that distinction, no amount of facts will help you. But please, keep typing. It's instructive. I personally couldn't imagine being so arrogant and idiotic as to embarrass myself to the level you have throughout this thread. You really are showing how you have somewhere between 0 and a negative understanding of history and honestly reality and might possibly be illiterate. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 6 points 7 months ago (2 children) This is basically just propaganda speak, for “my side can’t do bad things, only your side can” No it's the historical record of what actually happened. The fact you don't like it and wish all countries and systems were equally bad when it comes to fascism doesn't change that. The USSR for it's many faults was absolutely antifascist pre, during and post war. You are exhausting. So arrogant and so utterly wrong. You should be embarrassed I'm surprised the embarrassment hasn't won out and stopped you from spouting nonsense at least for a bit but I suppose you're still in the denial phase. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 4 points 7 months ago (1 child) You are conveniently omitting the fact that the Soviet Union had nearly identical programs running in parallel to the US. But they weren't identical that's the whole point I'm making please actually read what I said. I know reading might be hard but you are just wasting your time typing nonsense because you seemingly can't grasp what I'm saying In this case it’s cartoonishly obvious by the fact that your argument is so completely one-sided. In the case of the Nazis and fascism reality was "cartoonishly onesided". Again as I said the USSR for its many faults was absolutely antifascist whereas the US/Europe were categorically not. Look into operation gladio. Look into the history of Ford and IBM with regards to the Nazis not just pre war but during the war. Look at the difference between operation Paperclip and Osoaviakhim. If you think an accurate portrayal of reality is propaganda you really should do some introspection on what you believe, where you learned it etc. You have been embarrassingly wrong in basically every comment I've seen. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9skyguy0@lemmy.ml 2 points 7 months ago I hadn't known this about how the Soviets treated Nazis before and after the war. It's good to learn this and I really enjoy seeing your analysis and rebuttals. permalink fedilink source parent [–] DudleyMason@lemmy.ml 6 points 7 months ago Thanks for proving you're as illiterate about history as you are about politics. Now there's almost no chance any serious adults accidentally think you have anything intelligent to say. permalink fedilink source parent [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 5 points 7 months ago (1 child) Historical illiteracy and false equivalence. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (-1 replies)
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 10 points 7 months ago (6 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 9 points 7 months ago (4 children) Lol! Wut? The Soviets didn't form an "anti-Nazi alliance"…they were allied with the Nazis. They made a deal with them to carve up Eastern Europe between their two empires. This was literally the same cynical opportunism that led the Americans to give sanctuary to Nazi scientists after the war. If this means that Liberals are somehow naturally aligned with fascism, in your mind…then so are Communists, by the same criteria. It simply isn't true, either way. It's amazing that every comment you post is so embarrassingly wrong. The USSR spent years trying to build an anti-Nazi alliance. 1933 they proposed collective security at the League of Nations. 1935 they signed mutual defense pacts with France and Czechoslovakia. Spring 1939 they sat in Moscow for months begging Britain and France for a real triple alliance. The West stalled. Refused to guarantee the Baltics. Refused to let the Red Army cross Poland to actually fight Hitler. Poland's elite, more scared of workers than of Nazis, said no too and instead joined Hitler in attacking Czechoslovakia. The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact happened because liberals handed Hitler Eastern Europe rather than work with socialists. When Soviet troops entered eastern Poland September 17 1939, the Polish state had already collapsed. Government fled to Romania September 15. Warsaw was burning. The army was broken. The lands the USSR moved into? Not Poland proper. Territories Poland had seized and occupied by force in 1919-1921 from Belarus, Ukraine, and Lithuania. And spare me the nonsense about liberals and fascists. They share a foundation: defense of capitalist property. When capital feels threatened, liberalism drops the mask. Chile 1973. Indonesia 1965. Greece 1967. The Soviet Union abolished the capitalist class. That is a total category difference. Then there is denazification. The contrast couldn't be clearer. In the Soviet zone, former Nazis went to labor camps. They worked. They earned minimum wage like other inmates. In the West? Operation Paperclip handed over 1,600+ Nazi scientists, officers, and spies. Wernher von Braun, who used slave labor to build V-2 rockets, became head of NASA's Apollo program. Adolf Heusinger, Hitler's Chief of the General Staff, became Chairman of the NATO Military Committee. Johannes Steinhoff, Nazi ace, also chaired NATO's military committee. Heinz Reinefarth, who massacred civilians in Warsaw, became a respected mayor in West Germany. I genuinely cannot fathom how someone can be this historically, politically, and materially illiterate and still type with such confidence. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 7 points 7 months ago (3 children) Did you actually read what I wrote or just skim for a keyword? Yes, the USSR ran Operation Osoaviakhim. They relocated German specialists. And then those specialists were forced to worked in research institutes under massive scrutiny and supervision for minimum wage where they would be executed if they refused to work. Not one of them was made head of the Soviet rocket program. Not one was given a seat on the Central Committee. Not one was appointed to command Warsaw Pact forces. The Soviet system used their technical labor under massive constraint and threat. The Western system restored their class power. Wernher von Braun didn't just "work" for NASA. He was a leader. Adolf Heusinger didn't just "consult" for NATO. He chaired its Military Committee. These weren't technicians in a lab. They were architects of policy, strategy, and rearmament. You call that "identical." That's not analysis. That's surrendering to bourgeois propaganda. One system subordinated former fascists to the dictatorship of the proletariat. The other subordinated the postwar order to former fascists. If you can't grasp that distinction, no amount of facts will help you. But please, keep typing. It's instructive. I personally couldn't imagine being so arrogant and idiotic as to embarrass myself to the level you have throughout this thread. You really are showing how you have somewhere between 0 and a negative understanding of history and honestly reality and might possibly be illiterate. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 6 points 7 months ago (2 children) This is basically just propaganda speak, for “my side can’t do bad things, only your side can” No it's the historical record of what actually happened. The fact you don't like it and wish all countries and systems were equally bad when it comes to fascism doesn't change that. The USSR for it's many faults was absolutely antifascist pre, during and post war. You are exhausting. So arrogant and so utterly wrong. You should be embarrassed I'm surprised the embarrassment hasn't won out and stopped you from spouting nonsense at least for a bit but I suppose you're still in the denial phase. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 4 points 7 months ago (1 child) You are conveniently omitting the fact that the Soviet Union had nearly identical programs running in parallel to the US. But they weren't identical that's the whole point I'm making please actually read what I said. I know reading might be hard but you are just wasting your time typing nonsense because you seemingly can't grasp what I'm saying In this case it’s cartoonishly obvious by the fact that your argument is so completely one-sided. In the case of the Nazis and fascism reality was "cartoonishly onesided". Again as I said the USSR for its many faults was absolutely antifascist whereas the US/Europe were categorically not. Look into operation gladio. Look into the history of Ford and IBM with regards to the Nazis not just pre war but during the war. Look at the difference between operation Paperclip and Osoaviakhim. If you think an accurate portrayal of reality is propaganda you really should do some introspection on what you believe, where you learned it etc. You have been embarrassingly wrong in basically every comment I've seen. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9skyguy0@lemmy.ml 2 points 7 months ago I hadn't known this about how the Soviets treated Nazis before and after the war. It's good to learn this and I really enjoy seeing your analysis and rebuttals. permalink fedilink source parent [–] DudleyMason@lemmy.ml 6 points 7 months ago Thanks for proving you're as illiterate about history as you are about politics. Now there's almost no chance any serious adults accidentally think you have anything intelligent to say. permalink fedilink source parent [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 5 points 7 months ago (1 child) Historical illiteracy and false equivalence. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply)
[+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 10 points 7 months ago (6 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 9 points 7 months ago (4 children) Lol! Wut? The Soviets didn't form an "anti-Nazi alliance"…they were allied with the Nazis. They made a deal with them to carve up Eastern Europe between their two empires. This was literally the same cynical opportunism that led the Americans to give sanctuary to Nazi scientists after the war. If this means that Liberals are somehow naturally aligned with fascism, in your mind…then so are Communists, by the same criteria. It simply isn't true, either way. It's amazing that every comment you post is so embarrassingly wrong. The USSR spent years trying to build an anti-Nazi alliance. 1933 they proposed collective security at the League of Nations. 1935 they signed mutual defense pacts with France and Czechoslovakia. Spring 1939 they sat in Moscow for months begging Britain and France for a real triple alliance. The West stalled. Refused to guarantee the Baltics. Refused to let the Red Army cross Poland to actually fight Hitler. Poland's elite, more scared of workers than of Nazis, said no too and instead joined Hitler in attacking Czechoslovakia. The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact happened because liberals handed Hitler Eastern Europe rather than work with socialists. When Soviet troops entered eastern Poland September 17 1939, the Polish state had already collapsed. Government fled to Romania September 15. Warsaw was burning. The army was broken. The lands the USSR moved into? Not Poland proper. Territories Poland had seized and occupied by force in 1919-1921 from Belarus, Ukraine, and Lithuania. And spare me the nonsense about liberals and fascists. They share a foundation: defense of capitalist property. When capital feels threatened, liberalism drops the mask. Chile 1973. Indonesia 1965. Greece 1967. The Soviet Union abolished the capitalist class. That is a total category difference. Then there is denazification. The contrast couldn't be clearer. In the Soviet zone, former Nazis went to labor camps. They worked. They earned minimum wage like other inmates. In the West? Operation Paperclip handed over 1,600+ Nazi scientists, officers, and spies. Wernher von Braun, who used slave labor to build V-2 rockets, became head of NASA's Apollo program. Adolf Heusinger, Hitler's Chief of the General Staff, became Chairman of the NATO Military Committee. Johannes Steinhoff, Nazi ace, also chaired NATO's military committee. Heinz Reinefarth, who massacred civilians in Warsaw, became a respected mayor in West Germany. I genuinely cannot fathom how someone can be this historically, politically, and materially illiterate and still type with such confidence. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 7 points 7 months ago (3 children) Did you actually read what I wrote or just skim for a keyword? Yes, the USSR ran Operation Osoaviakhim. They relocated German specialists. And then those specialists were forced to worked in research institutes under massive scrutiny and supervision for minimum wage where they would be executed if they refused to work. Not one of them was made head of the Soviet rocket program. Not one was given a seat on the Central Committee. Not one was appointed to command Warsaw Pact forces. The Soviet system used their technical labor under massive constraint and threat. The Western system restored their class power. Wernher von Braun didn't just "work" for NASA. He was a leader. Adolf Heusinger didn't just "consult" for NATO. He chaired its Military Committee. These weren't technicians in a lab. They were architects of policy, strategy, and rearmament. You call that "identical." That's not analysis. That's surrendering to bourgeois propaganda. One system subordinated former fascists to the dictatorship of the proletariat. The other subordinated the postwar order to former fascists. If you can't grasp that distinction, no amount of facts will help you. But please, keep typing. It's instructive. I personally couldn't imagine being so arrogant and idiotic as to embarrass myself to the level you have throughout this thread. You really are showing how you have somewhere between 0 and a negative understanding of history and honestly reality and might possibly be illiterate. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 6 points 7 months ago (2 children) This is basically just propaganda speak, for “my side can’t do bad things, only your side can” No it's the historical record of what actually happened. The fact you don't like it and wish all countries and systems were equally bad when it comes to fascism doesn't change that. The USSR for it's many faults was absolutely antifascist pre, during and post war. You are exhausting. So arrogant and so utterly wrong. You should be embarrassed I'm surprised the embarrassment hasn't won out and stopped you from spouting nonsense at least for a bit but I suppose you're still in the denial phase. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 4 points 7 months ago (1 child) You are conveniently omitting the fact that the Soviet Union had nearly identical programs running in parallel to the US. But they weren't identical that's the whole point I'm making please actually read what I said. I know reading might be hard but you are just wasting your time typing nonsense because you seemingly can't grasp what I'm saying In this case it’s cartoonishly obvious by the fact that your argument is so completely one-sided. In the case of the Nazis and fascism reality was "cartoonishly onesided". Again as I said the USSR for its many faults was absolutely antifascist whereas the US/Europe were categorically not. Look into operation gladio. Look into the history of Ford and IBM with regards to the Nazis not just pre war but during the war. Look at the difference between operation Paperclip and Osoaviakhim. If you think an accurate portrayal of reality is propaganda you really should do some introspection on what you believe, where you learned it etc. You have been embarrassingly wrong in basically every comment I've seen. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9skyguy0@lemmy.ml 2 points 7 months ago I hadn't known this about how the Soviets treated Nazis before and after the war. It's good to learn this and I really enjoy seeing your analysis and rebuttals. permalink fedilink source parent [–] DudleyMason@lemmy.ml 6 points 7 months ago Thanks for proving you're as illiterate about history as you are about politics. Now there's almost no chance any serious adults accidentally think you have anything intelligent to say. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 9 points 7 months ago (4 children) Lol! Wut? The Soviets didn't form an "anti-Nazi alliance"…they were allied with the Nazis. They made a deal with them to carve up Eastern Europe between their two empires. This was literally the same cynical opportunism that led the Americans to give sanctuary to Nazi scientists after the war. If this means that Liberals are somehow naturally aligned with fascism, in your mind…then so are Communists, by the same criteria. It simply isn't true, either way. It's amazing that every comment you post is so embarrassingly wrong. The USSR spent years trying to build an anti-Nazi alliance. 1933 they proposed collective security at the League of Nations. 1935 they signed mutual defense pacts with France and Czechoslovakia. Spring 1939 they sat in Moscow for months begging Britain and France for a real triple alliance. The West stalled. Refused to guarantee the Baltics. Refused to let the Red Army cross Poland to actually fight Hitler. Poland's elite, more scared of workers than of Nazis, said no too and instead joined Hitler in attacking Czechoslovakia. The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact happened because liberals handed Hitler Eastern Europe rather than work with socialists. When Soviet troops entered eastern Poland September 17 1939, the Polish state had already collapsed. Government fled to Romania September 15. Warsaw was burning. The army was broken. The lands the USSR moved into? Not Poland proper. Territories Poland had seized and occupied by force in 1919-1921 from Belarus, Ukraine, and Lithuania. And spare me the nonsense about liberals and fascists. They share a foundation: defense of capitalist property. When capital feels threatened, liberalism drops the mask. Chile 1973. Indonesia 1965. Greece 1967. The Soviet Union abolished the capitalist class. That is a total category difference. Then there is denazification. The contrast couldn't be clearer. In the Soviet zone, former Nazis went to labor camps. They worked. They earned minimum wage like other inmates. In the West? Operation Paperclip handed over 1,600+ Nazi scientists, officers, and spies. Wernher von Braun, who used slave labor to build V-2 rockets, became head of NASA's Apollo program. Adolf Heusinger, Hitler's Chief of the General Staff, became Chairman of the NATO Military Committee. Johannes Steinhoff, Nazi ace, also chaired NATO's military committee. Heinz Reinefarth, who massacred civilians in Warsaw, became a respected mayor in West Germany. I genuinely cannot fathom how someone can be this historically, politically, and materially illiterate and still type with such confidence. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 7 points 7 months ago (3 children) Did you actually read what I wrote or just skim for a keyword? Yes, the USSR ran Operation Osoaviakhim. They relocated German specialists. And then those specialists were forced to worked in research institutes under massive scrutiny and supervision for minimum wage where they would be executed if they refused to work. Not one of them was made head of the Soviet rocket program. Not one was given a seat on the Central Committee. Not one was appointed to command Warsaw Pact forces. The Soviet system used their technical labor under massive constraint and threat. The Western system restored their class power. Wernher von Braun didn't just "work" for NASA. He was a leader. Adolf Heusinger didn't just "consult" for NATO. He chaired its Military Committee. These weren't technicians in a lab. They were architects of policy, strategy, and rearmament. You call that "identical." That's not analysis. That's surrendering to bourgeois propaganda. One system subordinated former fascists to the dictatorship of the proletariat. The other subordinated the postwar order to former fascists. If you can't grasp that distinction, no amount of facts will help you. But please, keep typing. It's instructive. I personally couldn't imagine being so arrogant and idiotic as to embarrass myself to the level you have throughout this thread. You really are showing how you have somewhere between 0 and a negative understanding of history and honestly reality and might possibly be illiterate. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 6 points 7 months ago (2 children) This is basically just propaganda speak, for “my side can’t do bad things, only your side can” No it's the historical record of what actually happened. The fact you don't like it and wish all countries and systems were equally bad when it comes to fascism doesn't change that. The USSR for it's many faults was absolutely antifascist pre, during and post war. You are exhausting. So arrogant and so utterly wrong. You should be embarrassed I'm surprised the embarrassment hasn't won out and stopped you from spouting nonsense at least for a bit but I suppose you're still in the denial phase. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 4 points 7 months ago (1 child) You are conveniently omitting the fact that the Soviet Union had nearly identical programs running in parallel to the US. But they weren't identical that's the whole point I'm making please actually read what I said. I know reading might be hard but you are just wasting your time typing nonsense because you seemingly can't grasp what I'm saying In this case it’s cartoonishly obvious by the fact that your argument is so completely one-sided. In the case of the Nazis and fascism reality was "cartoonishly onesided". Again as I said the USSR for its many faults was absolutely antifascist whereas the US/Europe were categorically not. Look into operation gladio. Look into the history of Ford and IBM with regards to the Nazis not just pre war but during the war. Look at the difference between operation Paperclip and Osoaviakhim. If you think an accurate portrayal of reality is propaganda you really should do some introspection on what you believe, where you learned it etc. You have been embarrassingly wrong in basically every comment I've seen. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9skyguy0@lemmy.ml 2 points 7 months ago I hadn't known this about how the Soviets treated Nazis before and after the war. It's good to learn this and I really enjoy seeing your analysis and rebuttals. permalink fedilink source parent [–] DudleyMason@lemmy.ml 6 points 7 months ago Thanks for proving you're as illiterate about history as you are about politics. Now there's almost no chance any serious adults accidentally think you have anything intelligent to say. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 9 points 7 months ago (4 children) Lol! Wut? The Soviets didn't form an "anti-Nazi alliance"…they were allied with the Nazis. They made a deal with them to carve up Eastern Europe between their two empires. This was literally the same cynical opportunism that led the Americans to give sanctuary to Nazi scientists after the war. If this means that Liberals are somehow naturally aligned with fascism, in your mind…then so are Communists, by the same criteria. It simply isn't true, either way. It's amazing that every comment you post is so embarrassingly wrong. The USSR spent years trying to build an anti-Nazi alliance. 1933 they proposed collective security at the League of Nations. 1935 they signed mutual defense pacts with France and Czechoslovakia. Spring 1939 they sat in Moscow for months begging Britain and France for a real triple alliance. The West stalled. Refused to guarantee the Baltics. Refused to let the Red Army cross Poland to actually fight Hitler. Poland's elite, more scared of workers than of Nazis, said no too and instead joined Hitler in attacking Czechoslovakia. The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact happened because liberals handed Hitler Eastern Europe rather than work with socialists. When Soviet troops entered eastern Poland September 17 1939, the Polish state had already collapsed. Government fled to Romania September 15. Warsaw was burning. The army was broken. The lands the USSR moved into? Not Poland proper. Territories Poland had seized and occupied by force in 1919-1921 from Belarus, Ukraine, and Lithuania. And spare me the nonsense about liberals and fascists. They share a foundation: defense of capitalist property. When capital feels threatened, liberalism drops the mask. Chile 1973. Indonesia 1965. Greece 1967. The Soviet Union abolished the capitalist class. That is a total category difference. Then there is denazification. The contrast couldn't be clearer. In the Soviet zone, former Nazis went to labor camps. They worked. They earned minimum wage like other inmates. In the West? Operation Paperclip handed over 1,600+ Nazi scientists, officers, and spies. Wernher von Braun, who used slave labor to build V-2 rockets, became head of NASA's Apollo program. Adolf Heusinger, Hitler's Chief of the General Staff, became Chairman of the NATO Military Committee. Johannes Steinhoff, Nazi ace, also chaired NATO's military committee. Heinz Reinefarth, who massacred civilians in Warsaw, became a respected mayor in West Germany. I genuinely cannot fathom how someone can be this historically, politically, and materially illiterate and still type with such confidence. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 7 points 7 months ago (3 children) Did you actually read what I wrote or just skim for a keyword? Yes, the USSR ran Operation Osoaviakhim. They relocated German specialists. And then those specialists were forced to worked in research institutes under massive scrutiny and supervision for minimum wage where they would be executed if they refused to work. Not one of them was made head of the Soviet rocket program. Not one was given a seat on the Central Committee. Not one was appointed to command Warsaw Pact forces. The Soviet system used their technical labor under massive constraint and threat. The Western system restored their class power. Wernher von Braun didn't just "work" for NASA. He was a leader. Adolf Heusinger didn't just "consult" for NATO. He chaired its Military Committee. These weren't technicians in a lab. They were architects of policy, strategy, and rearmament. You call that "identical." That's not analysis. That's surrendering to bourgeois propaganda. One system subordinated former fascists to the dictatorship of the proletariat. The other subordinated the postwar order to former fascists. If you can't grasp that distinction, no amount of facts will help you. But please, keep typing. It's instructive. I personally couldn't imagine being so arrogant and idiotic as to embarrass myself to the level you have throughout this thread. You really are showing how you have somewhere between 0 and a negative understanding of history and honestly reality and might possibly be illiterate. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 6 points 7 months ago (2 children) This is basically just propaganda speak, for “my side can’t do bad things, only your side can” No it's the historical record of what actually happened. The fact you don't like it and wish all countries and systems were equally bad when it comes to fascism doesn't change that. The USSR for it's many faults was absolutely antifascist pre, during and post war. You are exhausting. So arrogant and so utterly wrong. You should be embarrassed I'm surprised the embarrassment hasn't won out and stopped you from spouting nonsense at least for a bit but I suppose you're still in the denial phase. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 4 points 7 months ago (1 child) You are conveniently omitting the fact that the Soviet Union had nearly identical programs running in parallel to the US. But they weren't identical that's the whole point I'm making please actually read what I said. I know reading might be hard but you are just wasting your time typing nonsense because you seemingly can't grasp what I'm saying In this case it’s cartoonishly obvious by the fact that your argument is so completely one-sided. In the case of the Nazis and fascism reality was "cartoonishly onesided". Again as I said the USSR for its many faults was absolutely antifascist whereas the US/Europe were categorically not. Look into operation gladio. Look into the history of Ford and IBM with regards to the Nazis not just pre war but during the war. Look at the difference between operation Paperclip and Osoaviakhim. If you think an accurate portrayal of reality is propaganda you really should do some introspection on what you believe, where you learned it etc. You have been embarrassingly wrong in basically every comment I've seen. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9skyguy0@lemmy.ml 2 points 7 months ago I hadn't known this about how the Soviets treated Nazis before and after the war. It's good to learn this and I really enjoy seeing your analysis and rebuttals. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 7 points 7 months ago (3 children) Did you actually read what I wrote or just skim for a keyword? Yes, the USSR ran Operation Osoaviakhim. They relocated German specialists. And then those specialists were forced to worked in research institutes under massive scrutiny and supervision for minimum wage where they would be executed if they refused to work. Not one of them was made head of the Soviet rocket program. Not one was given a seat on the Central Committee. Not one was appointed to command Warsaw Pact forces. The Soviet system used their technical labor under massive constraint and threat. The Western system restored their class power. Wernher von Braun didn't just "work" for NASA. He was a leader. Adolf Heusinger didn't just "consult" for NATO. He chaired its Military Committee. These weren't technicians in a lab. They were architects of policy, strategy, and rearmament. You call that "identical." That's not analysis. That's surrendering to bourgeois propaganda. One system subordinated former fascists to the dictatorship of the proletariat. The other subordinated the postwar order to former fascists. If you can't grasp that distinction, no amount of facts will help you. But please, keep typing. It's instructive. I personally couldn't imagine being so arrogant and idiotic as to embarrass myself to the level you have throughout this thread. You really are showing how you have somewhere between 0 and a negative understanding of history and honestly reality and might possibly be illiterate. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 6 points 7 months ago (2 children) This is basically just propaganda speak, for “my side can’t do bad things, only your side can” No it's the historical record of what actually happened. The fact you don't like it and wish all countries and systems were equally bad when it comes to fascism doesn't change that. The USSR for it's many faults was absolutely antifascist pre, during and post war. You are exhausting. So arrogant and so utterly wrong. You should be embarrassed I'm surprised the embarrassment hasn't won out and stopped you from spouting nonsense at least for a bit but I suppose you're still in the denial phase. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 4 points 7 months ago (1 child) You are conveniently omitting the fact that the Soviet Union had nearly identical programs running in parallel to the US. But they weren't identical that's the whole point I'm making please actually read what I said. I know reading might be hard but you are just wasting your time typing nonsense because you seemingly can't grasp what I'm saying In this case it’s cartoonishly obvious by the fact that your argument is so completely one-sided. In the case of the Nazis and fascism reality was "cartoonishly onesided". Again as I said the USSR for its many faults was absolutely antifascist whereas the US/Europe were categorically not. Look into operation gladio. Look into the history of Ford and IBM with regards to the Nazis not just pre war but during the war. Look at the difference between operation Paperclip and Osoaviakhim. If you think an accurate portrayal of reality is propaganda you really should do some introspection on what you believe, where you learned it etc. You have been embarrassingly wrong in basically every comment I've seen. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9skyguy0@lemmy.ml 2 points 7 months ago I hadn't known this about how the Soviets treated Nazis before and after the war. It's good to learn this and I really enjoy seeing your analysis and rebuttals. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 7 points 7 months ago (3 children) Did you actually read what I wrote or just skim for a keyword? Yes, the USSR ran Operation Osoaviakhim. They relocated German specialists. And then those specialists were forced to worked in research institutes under massive scrutiny and supervision for minimum wage where they would be executed if they refused to work. Not one of them was made head of the Soviet rocket program. Not one was given a seat on the Central Committee. Not one was appointed to command Warsaw Pact forces. The Soviet system used their technical labor under massive constraint and threat. The Western system restored their class power. Wernher von Braun didn't just "work" for NASA. He was a leader. Adolf Heusinger didn't just "consult" for NATO. He chaired its Military Committee. These weren't technicians in a lab. They were architects of policy, strategy, and rearmament. You call that "identical." That's not analysis. That's surrendering to bourgeois propaganda. One system subordinated former fascists to the dictatorship of the proletariat. The other subordinated the postwar order to former fascists. If you can't grasp that distinction, no amount of facts will help you. But please, keep typing. It's instructive. I personally couldn't imagine being so arrogant and idiotic as to embarrass myself to the level you have throughout this thread. You really are showing how you have somewhere between 0 and a negative understanding of history and honestly reality and might possibly be illiterate. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 6 points 7 months ago (2 children) This is basically just propaganda speak, for “my side can’t do bad things, only your side can” No it's the historical record of what actually happened. The fact you don't like it and wish all countries and systems were equally bad when it comes to fascism doesn't change that. The USSR for it's many faults was absolutely antifascist pre, during and post war. You are exhausting. So arrogant and so utterly wrong. You should be embarrassed I'm surprised the embarrassment hasn't won out and stopped you from spouting nonsense at least for a bit but I suppose you're still in the denial phase. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 4 points 7 months ago (1 child) You are conveniently omitting the fact that the Soviet Union had nearly identical programs running in parallel to the US. But they weren't identical that's the whole point I'm making please actually read what I said. I know reading might be hard but you are just wasting your time typing nonsense because you seemingly can't grasp what I'm saying In this case it’s cartoonishly obvious by the fact that your argument is so completely one-sided. In the case of the Nazis and fascism reality was "cartoonishly onesided". Again as I said the USSR for its many faults was absolutely antifascist whereas the US/Europe were categorically not. Look into operation gladio. Look into the history of Ford and IBM with regards to the Nazis not just pre war but during the war. Look at the difference between operation Paperclip and Osoaviakhim. If you think an accurate portrayal of reality is propaganda you really should do some introspection on what you believe, where you learned it etc. You have been embarrassingly wrong in basically every comment I've seen. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9skyguy0@lemmy.ml 2 points 7 months ago I hadn't known this about how the Soviets treated Nazis before and after the war. It's good to learn this and I really enjoy seeing your analysis and rebuttals. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 6 points 7 months ago (2 children) This is basically just propaganda speak, for “my side can’t do bad things, only your side can” No it's the historical record of what actually happened. The fact you don't like it and wish all countries and systems were equally bad when it comes to fascism doesn't change that. The USSR for it's many faults was absolutely antifascist pre, during and post war. You are exhausting. So arrogant and so utterly wrong. You should be embarrassed I'm surprised the embarrassment hasn't won out and stopped you from spouting nonsense at least for a bit but I suppose you're still in the denial phase. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 4 points 7 months ago (1 child) You are conveniently omitting the fact that the Soviet Union had nearly identical programs running in parallel to the US. But they weren't identical that's the whole point I'm making please actually read what I said. I know reading might be hard but you are just wasting your time typing nonsense because you seemingly can't grasp what I'm saying In this case it’s cartoonishly obvious by the fact that your argument is so completely one-sided. In the case of the Nazis and fascism reality was "cartoonishly onesided". Again as I said the USSR for its many faults was absolutely antifascist whereas the US/Europe were categorically not. Look into operation gladio. Look into the history of Ford and IBM with regards to the Nazis not just pre war but during the war. Look at the difference between operation Paperclip and Osoaviakhim. If you think an accurate portrayal of reality is propaganda you really should do some introspection on what you believe, where you learned it etc. You have been embarrassingly wrong in basically every comment I've seen. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9skyguy0@lemmy.ml 2 points 7 months ago I hadn't known this about how the Soviets treated Nazis before and after the war. It's good to learn this and I really enjoy seeing your analysis and rebuttals. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 6 points 7 months ago (2 children) This is basically just propaganda speak, for “my side can’t do bad things, only your side can” No it's the historical record of what actually happened. The fact you don't like it and wish all countries and systems were equally bad when it comes to fascism doesn't change that. The USSR for it's many faults was absolutely antifascist pre, during and post war. You are exhausting. So arrogant and so utterly wrong. You should be embarrassed I'm surprised the embarrassment hasn't won out and stopped you from spouting nonsense at least for a bit but I suppose you're still in the denial phase. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 4 points 7 months ago (1 child) You are conveniently omitting the fact that the Soviet Union had nearly identical programs running in parallel to the US. But they weren't identical that's the whole point I'm making please actually read what I said. I know reading might be hard but you are just wasting your time typing nonsense because you seemingly can't grasp what I'm saying In this case it’s cartoonishly obvious by the fact that your argument is so completely one-sided. In the case of the Nazis and fascism reality was "cartoonishly onesided". Again as I said the USSR for its many faults was absolutely antifascist whereas the US/Europe were categorically not. Look into operation gladio. Look into the history of Ford and IBM with regards to the Nazis not just pre war but during the war. Look at the difference between operation Paperclip and Osoaviakhim. If you think an accurate portrayal of reality is propaganda you really should do some introspection on what you believe, where you learned it etc. You have been embarrassingly wrong in basically every comment I've seen. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9skyguy0@lemmy.ml 2 points 7 months ago I hadn't known this about how the Soviets treated Nazis before and after the war. It's good to learn this and I really enjoy seeing your analysis and rebuttals. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 4 points 7 months ago (1 child) You are conveniently omitting the fact that the Soviet Union had nearly identical programs running in parallel to the US. But they weren't identical that's the whole point I'm making please actually read what I said. I know reading might be hard but you are just wasting your time typing nonsense because you seemingly can't grasp what I'm saying In this case it’s cartoonishly obvious by the fact that your argument is so completely one-sided. In the case of the Nazis and fascism reality was "cartoonishly onesided". Again as I said the USSR for its many faults was absolutely antifascist whereas the US/Europe were categorically not. Look into operation gladio. Look into the history of Ford and IBM with regards to the Nazis not just pre war but during the war. Look at the difference between operation Paperclip and Osoaviakhim. If you think an accurate portrayal of reality is propaganda you really should do some introspection on what you believe, where you learned it etc. You have been embarrassingly wrong in basically every comment I've seen. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9skyguy0@lemmy.ml 2 points 7 months ago I hadn't known this about how the Soviets treated Nazis before and after the war. It's good to learn this and I really enjoy seeing your analysis and rebuttals. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 4 points 7 months ago (1 child) You are conveniently omitting the fact that the Soviet Union had nearly identical programs running in parallel to the US. But they weren't identical that's the whole point I'm making please actually read what I said. I know reading might be hard but you are just wasting your time typing nonsense because you seemingly can't grasp what I'm saying In this case it’s cartoonishly obvious by the fact that your argument is so completely one-sided. In the case of the Nazis and fascism reality was "cartoonishly onesided". Again as I said the USSR for its many faults was absolutely antifascist whereas the US/Europe were categorically not. Look into operation gladio. Look into the history of Ford and IBM with regards to the Nazis not just pre war but during the war. Look at the difference between operation Paperclip and Osoaviakhim. If you think an accurate portrayal of reality is propaganda you really should do some introspection on what you believe, where you learned it etc. You have been embarrassingly wrong in basically every comment I've seen. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 9skyguy0@lemmy.ml 2 points 7 months ago I hadn't known this about how the Soviets treated Nazis before and after the war. It's good to learn this and I really enjoy seeing your analysis and rebuttals. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] 9skyguy0@lemmy.ml 2 points 7 months ago I hadn't known this about how the Soviets treated Nazis before and after the war. It's good to learn this and I really enjoy seeing your analysis and rebuttals. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] DudleyMason@lemmy.ml 6 points 7 months ago Thanks for proving you're as illiterate about history as you are about politics. Now there's almost no chance any serious adults accidentally think you have anything intelligent to say. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 5 points 7 months ago (1 child) Historical illiteracy and false equivalence. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply)
[–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 14 points 7 months ago the difference between a Liberal and a literal Fascist. Haha, lol, lmao even Free Palestine permalink fedilink source parent
[+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 22 points 7 months ago (2 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 21 points 7 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 15 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) So, your only solution is violence? Not solidarity? You voted for a genocide as a solution instead of having solidarity with it's victims. Because you wanted to go back to not caring about politics. permalink fedilink source parent [–] astutemural@midwest.social 6 points 7 months ago Really? That's funny, I seem to remember the DNC canceling the primary last election. Huh. Odd for a party where, "the voters decide who makes up the party". permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies)
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 21 points 7 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 15 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) So, your only solution is violence? Not solidarity? You voted for a genocide as a solution instead of having solidarity with it's victims. Because you wanted to go back to not caring about politics. permalink fedilink source parent [–] astutemural@midwest.social 6 points 7 months ago Really? That's funny, I seem to remember the DNC canceling the primary last election. Huh. Odd for a party where, "the voters decide who makes up the party". permalink fedilink source parent
[+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 21 points 7 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 15 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) So, your only solution is violence? Not solidarity? You voted for a genocide as a solution instead of having solidarity with it's victims. Because you wanted to go back to not caring about politics. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 15 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) So, your only solution is violence? Not solidarity? You voted for a genocide as a solution instead of having solidarity with it's victims. Because you wanted to go back to not caring about politics. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 15 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) So, your only solution is violence? Not solidarity? You voted for a genocide as a solution instead of having solidarity with it's victims. Because you wanted to go back to not caring about politics. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] astutemural@midwest.social 6 points 7 months ago Really? That's funny, I seem to remember the DNC canceling the primary last election. Huh. Odd for a party where, "the voters decide who makes up the party". permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Catgrass@lemmy.world 15 points 7 months ago "scratch a liberal, a fascist bleeds" permalink fedilink source parent
[–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 14 points 7 months ago* (3 children) Your good guys literally committed a genocide. You're a fucking clown. No. I’m mad that the American left is so politically uneducated that they can’t tell the difference between a Liberal and a literal Fascist. GUESS THE DIFFERENCE ISN'T FUCKING GENOCIDE from a historical standpoint The raw fucking irony of whining about people's political literacy and then saying this shit. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 10 points 7 months ago Oh, are israeli propagandists bad or something? Is it a mark on your character to support them or something? permalink fedilink source parent [–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 10 points 7 months ago* (1 child) What the fuck do you think the word nuance means, you fucking idiot? Since the rest of your comment is just smugly talking to yourself, totally nailing the vapid ignorance. "Um actually the people you don't like would like you because you were mean to me" stupid fucking baby. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 10 points 7 months ago We slaughtered a hundred thousand or so but we didn't say fuck words, it's very nuanced honey permalink fedilink source parent
[–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 10 points 7 months ago Oh, are israeli propagandists bad or something? Is it a mark on your character to support them or something? permalink fedilink source parent [–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 10 points 7 months ago* (1 child) What the fuck do you think the word nuance means, you fucking idiot? Since the rest of your comment is just smugly talking to yourself, totally nailing the vapid ignorance. "Um actually the people you don't like would like you because you were mean to me" stupid fucking baby. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 10 points 7 months ago We slaughtered a hundred thousand or so but we didn't say fuck words, it's very nuanced honey permalink fedilink source parent
[–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 10 points 7 months ago Oh, are israeli propagandists bad or something? Is it a mark on your character to support them or something? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 10 points 7 months ago* (1 child) What the fuck do you think the word nuance means, you fucking idiot? Since the rest of your comment is just smugly talking to yourself, totally nailing the vapid ignorance. "Um actually the people you don't like would like you because you were mean to me" stupid fucking baby. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 10 points 7 months ago We slaughtered a hundred thousand or so but we didn't say fuck words, it's very nuanced honey permalink fedilink source parent
[–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 10 points 7 months ago We slaughtered a hundred thousand or so but we didn't say fuck words, it's very nuanced honey permalink fedilink source parent