▲ 25 ▼ CHANGE(the bombs out) (lemmy.ml) submitted 7 months ago by jankforlife@lemmy.ml to c/memes@lemmy.ml 62 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[+] Archangel1313@lemmy.ca -13 points 7 months ago (17 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 17 child comments replies: [–] DudleyMason@lemmy.ml 18 points 7 months ago (3 children) But like I said...no one bothered to show up and vote...so we got Biden. That's not even close to what happened. The DNC Leadership chose Biden specifically to stop Bernie. That's why when Biden was in sixth place going in to Super Tuesday every establishment candidate ahead of him bowed out on the same night and gave him their delegates, pushing him from sixth to first, and Warren stayed in to split the progressive vote and push the "Bernie Bros are sexist creeps" narrative. The US is not a Democracy, it's an Oligarchy. Democrats Now Openly Admit They Pushed Biden to Block Bernie https://share.google/zcegH1ZFBvtMJdShZ The U.S. is an Oligarchy? The Research, Explained | RepresentUs https://share.google/WHeE7b3nhnAxZ8sSE permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [+] Archangel1313@lemmy.ca -8 points 7 months ago (3 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] eldavi@lemmy.ml 12 points 7 months ago not running a pro-genocide candidate to run against another pro-genocide candidate would be a great start. permalink fedilink source parent [–] DudleyMason@lemmy.ml 8 points 7 months ago (1 child) Are you really suggesting that there isn't a chilling effect on people who want to improve the status quo when they see the party nakedly manipulating the outcome? With this being exactly four years after the DNC nakedly manipulated the system in ways that had since been exhaustively documented, I'd say it massively suppressed the progressive vote, and Warren staying in far too long and splitting that vote before endorsing Biden sealed the deal. Three election cycles in a row the party has nakedly and unashamedly manipulated things to ensure a donor-friendly candidate. In 2024 there wasn't even a primary, despite everyone knowing Biden couldn't handle another campaign. At this point anyone who finds the status quo unacceptable and still votes for the Democrats is obviously a graduate of the Charlie Brown School of Field Goal Kicks. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Archangel1313@lemmy.ca -8 points 7 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] DudleyMason@lemmy.ml 7 points 7 months ago Are you really suggesting that those people are being somehow prevented from voting, just because the establishment wants them to stay home? No, I'm suggesting that those people are (correctly) realizing that the game is rigged and refusing to play. Your narrative that progressives could win if they showed up has been repeatedly proven to be a lie, fewer people believe it each election cycle, you cannot change the status quo by doing what the people who profit from the status quo want you to do. The Democrats are not the opposition to the GOP, they are the compliment to them. They exist to make the Wall St agenda palatable by comparison. Their only purpose is to ensure the gullible retain enough faith in the system to prevent any meaningful revolt. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies) [–] PanArab@lemmy.ml 14 points 7 months ago (2 children) The DNC is a private corporation and would have chosen Biden anyways permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Archangel1313@lemmy.ca -5 points 7 months ago (2 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org 8 points 7 months ago (1 child) They managed to successfully convince enough progressives that they could, that people just sat down and stopped fighting Weird way to say got all but the other progressive candidate to drop out, get behind Biden and have the remaining progressive candidate start attacking Bernie permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Archangel1313@lemmy.ca -5 points 7 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org 7 points 7 months ago Not really. Dnc could pull another trick like the Iowa app fuck up. Or as others have pointed out they don't even need to follow how voters in the primary or cacuses pick. I'm confused are you arguing the dnc doesn't control who they put on the ticket or that it's the voters fault for how presidential primaries go when it may not even matter by the time they get the opportunity to vote? permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies) [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 13 points 7 months ago (4 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] Zexks@lemmy.world -8 points 7 months ago* (4 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 15 points 7 months ago (1 child) But oh no gaza The fact you can say this about a genocide and people not supporting it's enablers really shows how despicable you are. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 7 points 7 months ago "But oh no Auschwitz🙄" permalink fedilink source parent [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 7 points 7 months ago* (1 child) Those dead iranian school childrens blood is on all the hands that sat back and let or even helped trump into the office. This means that the blood of every dead Gazan is on the hands of everyone who directly voted to enable their slaughter permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Zexks@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago That ven diagram is a circle permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 20 points 7 months ago (5 children) The best alternative liberal Zionist Bernie Sanders who even if he had received all the votes you wanted would have just been undermined and sabotaged again by the DNC establishment like in 2016. You can't vote the fascism away. The ruling class is not going to politely expropriate themselves. You should read Luxemburg's "reform or revolution". permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [+] Archangel1313@lemmy.ca -11 points 7 months ago (5 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 16 points 7 months ago (4 children) Bernie is absolutely a liberal. Calling him anything else ignores what he actually proposes. He wants to regulate capital, not expropriate it. He wants to blunt capitalism's worst edges at home while leaving the imperial core intact. That is social democracy at best, a liberal ideology. His own platform accepts the basic framework of private ownership of the means of production. He seeks to manage the crisis, not resolve its root cause. That is precisely the reformism Luxemburg critiqued a century ago in the work I already recommended. You really should read it. Electoralism under liberal democracy is not a path to socialism. It is a containment strategy. The ballot box is designed to channel dissent into harmless rituals that leave property relations untouched. You think stacking votes can overcome capital's structural power. But capital does not rule through votes. It rules through ownership of production, control of credit, domination of media, and monopoly on organised violence. When the vote threatens those foundations, the mask comes off. The courts block, the capital strikes, the media smears, the state represses. This is not conspiracy. It is the normal functioning of the bourgeois state. Expecting otherwise is like expecting a wolf to vote itself vegetarian. Your entire argument rests on idealist assumptions. You treat consciousness as primary and material conditions as secondary. You think changing minds at the ballot box changes the balance of class forces. That is backwards. Social being determines social consciousness, not the other way around. You mistake the form of democracy for its content. You ignore that the two-party system is a mechanism to limit political competition to factions of capital, not to enable working-class rule. You cite 2016 and 2020 as if they were isolated failures of strategy, not expressions of a system that structurally excludes anti-capitalist politics. You blame the left for "quitting" instead of asking why the electoral arena absorbs and neutralises radical energy every single time. This is not analysis. It is moralising. I am Chinese, not American. We had our revolution. We broke the bourgeois state and built a system where the vote actually means something because it is embedded in democratic centralism and whole-process people's democracy, not trapped in a ballot box ritual that changes nothing. These electoralist squabbles about which faction of capital should manage the American empire are none of my concern outside of the theoretical interest I take in educating and engaging in dialogue with comrades in a much different situation. I know it sounds cliché to say "read theory," but genuinely, every idealist assumption you are recycling has been academically addressed and refuted for decades. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 5 points 7 months ago (1 child) These smug dipshits may not take your explanations to heart, but know that I am. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 8 points 7 months ago Thank you always happy to hear when people enjoy and/or find my comments insightful. permalink fedilink source parent [+] Archangel1313@lemmy.ca -7 points 7 months ago (2 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 7 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] eldavi@lemmy.ml 3 points 7 months ago social democrat, not a demsoc this is my first time hearing this. do you know of other sources i can look up to know the difference? permalink fedilink source parent [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 8 points 7 months ago No permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies)
[–] DudleyMason@lemmy.ml 18 points 7 months ago (3 children) But like I said...no one bothered to show up and vote...so we got Biden. That's not even close to what happened. The DNC Leadership chose Biden specifically to stop Bernie. That's why when Biden was in sixth place going in to Super Tuesday every establishment candidate ahead of him bowed out on the same night and gave him their delegates, pushing him from sixth to first, and Warren stayed in to split the progressive vote and push the "Bernie Bros are sexist creeps" narrative. The US is not a Democracy, it's an Oligarchy. Democrats Now Openly Admit They Pushed Biden to Block Bernie https://share.google/zcegH1ZFBvtMJdShZ The U.S. is an Oligarchy? The Research, Explained | RepresentUs https://share.google/WHeE7b3nhnAxZ8sSE permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [+] Archangel1313@lemmy.ca -8 points 7 months ago (3 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] eldavi@lemmy.ml 12 points 7 months ago not running a pro-genocide candidate to run against another pro-genocide candidate would be a great start. permalink fedilink source parent [–] DudleyMason@lemmy.ml 8 points 7 months ago (1 child) Are you really suggesting that there isn't a chilling effect on people who want to improve the status quo when they see the party nakedly manipulating the outcome? With this being exactly four years after the DNC nakedly manipulated the system in ways that had since been exhaustively documented, I'd say it massively suppressed the progressive vote, and Warren staying in far too long and splitting that vote before endorsing Biden sealed the deal. Three election cycles in a row the party has nakedly and unashamedly manipulated things to ensure a donor-friendly candidate. In 2024 there wasn't even a primary, despite everyone knowing Biden couldn't handle another campaign. At this point anyone who finds the status quo unacceptable and still votes for the Democrats is obviously a graduate of the Charlie Brown School of Field Goal Kicks. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Archangel1313@lemmy.ca -8 points 7 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] DudleyMason@lemmy.ml 7 points 7 months ago Are you really suggesting that those people are being somehow prevented from voting, just because the establishment wants them to stay home? No, I'm suggesting that those people are (correctly) realizing that the game is rigged and refusing to play. Your narrative that progressives could win if they showed up has been repeatedly proven to be a lie, fewer people believe it each election cycle, you cannot change the status quo by doing what the people who profit from the status quo want you to do. The Democrats are not the opposition to the GOP, they are the compliment to them. They exist to make the Wall St agenda palatable by comparison. Their only purpose is to ensure the gullible retain enough faith in the system to prevent any meaningful revolt. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies)
[+] Archangel1313@lemmy.ca -8 points 7 months ago (3 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] eldavi@lemmy.ml 12 points 7 months ago not running a pro-genocide candidate to run against another pro-genocide candidate would be a great start. permalink fedilink source parent [–] DudleyMason@lemmy.ml 8 points 7 months ago (1 child) Are you really suggesting that there isn't a chilling effect on people who want to improve the status quo when they see the party nakedly manipulating the outcome? With this being exactly four years after the DNC nakedly manipulated the system in ways that had since been exhaustively documented, I'd say it massively suppressed the progressive vote, and Warren staying in far too long and splitting that vote before endorsing Biden sealed the deal. Three election cycles in a row the party has nakedly and unashamedly manipulated things to ensure a donor-friendly candidate. In 2024 there wasn't even a primary, despite everyone knowing Biden couldn't handle another campaign. At this point anyone who finds the status quo unacceptable and still votes for the Democrats is obviously a graduate of the Charlie Brown School of Field Goal Kicks. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Archangel1313@lemmy.ca -8 points 7 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] DudleyMason@lemmy.ml 7 points 7 months ago Are you really suggesting that those people are being somehow prevented from voting, just because the establishment wants them to stay home? No, I'm suggesting that those people are (correctly) realizing that the game is rigged and refusing to play. Your narrative that progressives could win if they showed up has been repeatedly proven to be a lie, fewer people believe it each election cycle, you cannot change the status quo by doing what the people who profit from the status quo want you to do. The Democrats are not the opposition to the GOP, they are the compliment to them. They exist to make the Wall St agenda palatable by comparison. Their only purpose is to ensure the gullible retain enough faith in the system to prevent any meaningful revolt. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies)
[–] eldavi@lemmy.ml 12 points 7 months ago not running a pro-genocide candidate to run against another pro-genocide candidate would be a great start. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] DudleyMason@lemmy.ml 8 points 7 months ago (1 child) Are you really suggesting that there isn't a chilling effect on people who want to improve the status quo when they see the party nakedly manipulating the outcome? With this being exactly four years after the DNC nakedly manipulated the system in ways that had since been exhaustively documented, I'd say it massively suppressed the progressive vote, and Warren staying in far too long and splitting that vote before endorsing Biden sealed the deal. Three election cycles in a row the party has nakedly and unashamedly manipulated things to ensure a donor-friendly candidate. In 2024 there wasn't even a primary, despite everyone knowing Biden couldn't handle another campaign. At this point anyone who finds the status quo unacceptable and still votes for the Democrats is obviously a graduate of the Charlie Brown School of Field Goal Kicks. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Archangel1313@lemmy.ca -8 points 7 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] DudleyMason@lemmy.ml 7 points 7 months ago Are you really suggesting that those people are being somehow prevented from voting, just because the establishment wants them to stay home? No, I'm suggesting that those people are (correctly) realizing that the game is rigged and refusing to play. Your narrative that progressives could win if they showed up has been repeatedly proven to be a lie, fewer people believe it each election cycle, you cannot change the status quo by doing what the people who profit from the status quo want you to do. The Democrats are not the opposition to the GOP, they are the compliment to them. They exist to make the Wall St agenda palatable by comparison. Their only purpose is to ensure the gullible retain enough faith in the system to prevent any meaningful revolt. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies)
[+] Archangel1313@lemmy.ca -8 points 7 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] DudleyMason@lemmy.ml 7 points 7 months ago Are you really suggesting that those people are being somehow prevented from voting, just because the establishment wants them to stay home? No, I'm suggesting that those people are (correctly) realizing that the game is rigged and refusing to play. Your narrative that progressives could win if they showed up has been repeatedly proven to be a lie, fewer people believe it each election cycle, you cannot change the status quo by doing what the people who profit from the status quo want you to do. The Democrats are not the opposition to the GOP, they are the compliment to them. They exist to make the Wall St agenda palatable by comparison. Their only purpose is to ensure the gullible retain enough faith in the system to prevent any meaningful revolt. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] DudleyMason@lemmy.ml 7 points 7 months ago Are you really suggesting that those people are being somehow prevented from voting, just because the establishment wants them to stay home? No, I'm suggesting that those people are (correctly) realizing that the game is rigged and refusing to play. Your narrative that progressives could win if they showed up has been repeatedly proven to be a lie, fewer people believe it each election cycle, you cannot change the status quo by doing what the people who profit from the status quo want you to do. The Democrats are not the opposition to the GOP, they are the compliment to them. They exist to make the Wall St agenda palatable by comparison. Their only purpose is to ensure the gullible retain enough faith in the system to prevent any meaningful revolt. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] PanArab@lemmy.ml 14 points 7 months ago (2 children) The DNC is a private corporation and would have chosen Biden anyways permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Archangel1313@lemmy.ca -5 points 7 months ago (2 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org 8 points 7 months ago (1 child) They managed to successfully convince enough progressives that they could, that people just sat down and stopped fighting Weird way to say got all but the other progressive candidate to drop out, get behind Biden and have the remaining progressive candidate start attacking Bernie permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Archangel1313@lemmy.ca -5 points 7 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org 7 points 7 months ago Not really. Dnc could pull another trick like the Iowa app fuck up. Or as others have pointed out they don't even need to follow how voters in the primary or cacuses pick. I'm confused are you arguing the dnc doesn't control who they put on the ticket or that it's the voters fault for how presidential primaries go when it may not even matter by the time they get the opportunity to vote? permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies)
[+] Archangel1313@lemmy.ca -5 points 7 months ago (2 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org 8 points 7 months ago (1 child) They managed to successfully convince enough progressives that they could, that people just sat down and stopped fighting Weird way to say got all but the other progressive candidate to drop out, get behind Biden and have the remaining progressive candidate start attacking Bernie permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Archangel1313@lemmy.ca -5 points 7 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org 7 points 7 months ago Not really. Dnc could pull another trick like the Iowa app fuck up. Or as others have pointed out they don't even need to follow how voters in the primary or cacuses pick. I'm confused are you arguing the dnc doesn't control who they put on the ticket or that it's the voters fault for how presidential primaries go when it may not even matter by the time they get the opportunity to vote? permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies)
[–] goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org 8 points 7 months ago (1 child) They managed to successfully convince enough progressives that they could, that people just sat down and stopped fighting Weird way to say got all but the other progressive candidate to drop out, get behind Biden and have the remaining progressive candidate start attacking Bernie permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Archangel1313@lemmy.ca -5 points 7 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org 7 points 7 months ago Not really. Dnc could pull another trick like the Iowa app fuck up. Or as others have pointed out they don't even need to follow how voters in the primary or cacuses pick. I'm confused are you arguing the dnc doesn't control who they put on the ticket or that it's the voters fault for how presidential primaries go when it may not even matter by the time they get the opportunity to vote? permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies)
[+] Archangel1313@lemmy.ca -5 points 7 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org 7 points 7 months ago Not really. Dnc could pull another trick like the Iowa app fuck up. Or as others have pointed out they don't even need to follow how voters in the primary or cacuses pick. I'm confused are you arguing the dnc doesn't control who they put on the ticket or that it's the voters fault for how presidential primaries go when it may not even matter by the time they get the opportunity to vote? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org 7 points 7 months ago Not really. Dnc could pull another trick like the Iowa app fuck up. Or as others have pointed out they don't even need to follow how voters in the primary or cacuses pick. I'm confused are you arguing the dnc doesn't control who they put on the ticket or that it's the voters fault for how presidential primaries go when it may not even matter by the time they get the opportunity to vote? permalink fedilink source parent
[+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 13 points 7 months ago (4 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] Zexks@lemmy.world -8 points 7 months ago* (4 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 15 points 7 months ago (1 child) But oh no gaza The fact you can say this about a genocide and people not supporting it's enablers really shows how despicable you are. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 7 points 7 months ago "But oh no Auschwitz🙄" permalink fedilink source parent [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 7 points 7 months ago* (1 child) Those dead iranian school childrens blood is on all the hands that sat back and let or even helped trump into the office. This means that the blood of every dead Gazan is on the hands of everyone who directly voted to enable their slaughter permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Zexks@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago That ven diagram is a circle permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies)
[+] Zexks@lemmy.world -8 points 7 months ago* (4 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 15 points 7 months ago (1 child) But oh no gaza The fact you can say this about a genocide and people not supporting it's enablers really shows how despicable you are. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 7 points 7 months ago "But oh no Auschwitz🙄" permalink fedilink source parent [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 7 points 7 months ago* (1 child) Those dead iranian school childrens blood is on all the hands that sat back and let or even helped trump into the office. This means that the blood of every dead Gazan is on the hands of everyone who directly voted to enable their slaughter permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Zexks@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago That ven diagram is a circle permalink fedilink source parent
[–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 15 points 7 months ago (1 child) But oh no gaza The fact you can say this about a genocide and people not supporting it's enablers really shows how despicable you are. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 7 points 7 months ago "But oh no Auschwitz🙄" permalink fedilink source parent
[–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 7 points 7 months ago* (1 child) Those dead iranian school childrens blood is on all the hands that sat back and let or even helped trump into the office. This means that the blood of every dead Gazan is on the hands of everyone who directly voted to enable their slaughter permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Zexks@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago That ven diagram is a circle permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Zexks@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago That ven diagram is a circle permalink fedilink source parent
[–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 20 points 7 months ago (5 children) The best alternative liberal Zionist Bernie Sanders who even if he had received all the votes you wanted would have just been undermined and sabotaged again by the DNC establishment like in 2016. You can't vote the fascism away. The ruling class is not going to politely expropriate themselves. You should read Luxemburg's "reform or revolution". permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [+] Archangel1313@lemmy.ca -11 points 7 months ago (5 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 16 points 7 months ago (4 children) Bernie is absolutely a liberal. Calling him anything else ignores what he actually proposes. He wants to regulate capital, not expropriate it. He wants to blunt capitalism's worst edges at home while leaving the imperial core intact. That is social democracy at best, a liberal ideology. His own platform accepts the basic framework of private ownership of the means of production. He seeks to manage the crisis, not resolve its root cause. That is precisely the reformism Luxemburg critiqued a century ago in the work I already recommended. You really should read it. Electoralism under liberal democracy is not a path to socialism. It is a containment strategy. The ballot box is designed to channel dissent into harmless rituals that leave property relations untouched. You think stacking votes can overcome capital's structural power. But capital does not rule through votes. It rules through ownership of production, control of credit, domination of media, and monopoly on organised violence. When the vote threatens those foundations, the mask comes off. The courts block, the capital strikes, the media smears, the state represses. This is not conspiracy. It is the normal functioning of the bourgeois state. Expecting otherwise is like expecting a wolf to vote itself vegetarian. Your entire argument rests on idealist assumptions. You treat consciousness as primary and material conditions as secondary. You think changing minds at the ballot box changes the balance of class forces. That is backwards. Social being determines social consciousness, not the other way around. You mistake the form of democracy for its content. You ignore that the two-party system is a mechanism to limit political competition to factions of capital, not to enable working-class rule. You cite 2016 and 2020 as if they were isolated failures of strategy, not expressions of a system that structurally excludes anti-capitalist politics. You blame the left for "quitting" instead of asking why the electoral arena absorbs and neutralises radical energy every single time. This is not analysis. It is moralising. I am Chinese, not American. We had our revolution. We broke the bourgeois state and built a system where the vote actually means something because it is embedded in democratic centralism and whole-process people's democracy, not trapped in a ballot box ritual that changes nothing. These electoralist squabbles about which faction of capital should manage the American empire are none of my concern outside of the theoretical interest I take in educating and engaging in dialogue with comrades in a much different situation. I know it sounds cliché to say "read theory," but genuinely, every idealist assumption you are recycling has been academically addressed and refuted for decades. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 5 points 7 months ago (1 child) These smug dipshits may not take your explanations to heart, but know that I am. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 8 points 7 months ago Thank you always happy to hear when people enjoy and/or find my comments insightful. permalink fedilink source parent [+] Archangel1313@lemmy.ca -7 points 7 months ago (2 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 7 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] eldavi@lemmy.ml 3 points 7 months ago social democrat, not a demsoc this is my first time hearing this. do you know of other sources i can look up to know the difference? permalink fedilink source parent [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 8 points 7 months ago No permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies)
[+] Archangel1313@lemmy.ca -11 points 7 months ago (5 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 16 points 7 months ago (4 children) Bernie is absolutely a liberal. Calling him anything else ignores what he actually proposes. He wants to regulate capital, not expropriate it. He wants to blunt capitalism's worst edges at home while leaving the imperial core intact. That is social democracy at best, a liberal ideology. His own platform accepts the basic framework of private ownership of the means of production. He seeks to manage the crisis, not resolve its root cause. That is precisely the reformism Luxemburg critiqued a century ago in the work I already recommended. You really should read it. Electoralism under liberal democracy is not a path to socialism. It is a containment strategy. The ballot box is designed to channel dissent into harmless rituals that leave property relations untouched. You think stacking votes can overcome capital's structural power. But capital does not rule through votes. It rules through ownership of production, control of credit, domination of media, and monopoly on organised violence. When the vote threatens those foundations, the mask comes off. The courts block, the capital strikes, the media smears, the state represses. This is not conspiracy. It is the normal functioning of the bourgeois state. Expecting otherwise is like expecting a wolf to vote itself vegetarian. Your entire argument rests on idealist assumptions. You treat consciousness as primary and material conditions as secondary. You think changing minds at the ballot box changes the balance of class forces. That is backwards. Social being determines social consciousness, not the other way around. You mistake the form of democracy for its content. You ignore that the two-party system is a mechanism to limit political competition to factions of capital, not to enable working-class rule. You cite 2016 and 2020 as if they were isolated failures of strategy, not expressions of a system that structurally excludes anti-capitalist politics. You blame the left for "quitting" instead of asking why the electoral arena absorbs and neutralises radical energy every single time. This is not analysis. It is moralising. I am Chinese, not American. We had our revolution. We broke the bourgeois state and built a system where the vote actually means something because it is embedded in democratic centralism and whole-process people's democracy, not trapped in a ballot box ritual that changes nothing. These electoralist squabbles about which faction of capital should manage the American empire are none of my concern outside of the theoretical interest I take in educating and engaging in dialogue with comrades in a much different situation. I know it sounds cliché to say "read theory," but genuinely, every idealist assumption you are recycling has been academically addressed and refuted for decades. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 5 points 7 months ago (1 child) These smug dipshits may not take your explanations to heart, but know that I am. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 8 points 7 months ago Thank you always happy to hear when people enjoy and/or find my comments insightful. permalink fedilink source parent [+] Archangel1313@lemmy.ca -7 points 7 months ago (2 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 7 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] eldavi@lemmy.ml 3 points 7 months ago social democrat, not a demsoc this is my first time hearing this. do you know of other sources i can look up to know the difference? permalink fedilink source parent [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 8 points 7 months ago No permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies)
[–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 16 points 7 months ago (4 children) Bernie is absolutely a liberal. Calling him anything else ignores what he actually proposes. He wants to regulate capital, not expropriate it. He wants to blunt capitalism's worst edges at home while leaving the imperial core intact. That is social democracy at best, a liberal ideology. His own platform accepts the basic framework of private ownership of the means of production. He seeks to manage the crisis, not resolve its root cause. That is precisely the reformism Luxemburg critiqued a century ago in the work I already recommended. You really should read it. Electoralism under liberal democracy is not a path to socialism. It is a containment strategy. The ballot box is designed to channel dissent into harmless rituals that leave property relations untouched. You think stacking votes can overcome capital's structural power. But capital does not rule through votes. It rules through ownership of production, control of credit, domination of media, and monopoly on organised violence. When the vote threatens those foundations, the mask comes off. The courts block, the capital strikes, the media smears, the state represses. This is not conspiracy. It is the normal functioning of the bourgeois state. Expecting otherwise is like expecting a wolf to vote itself vegetarian. Your entire argument rests on idealist assumptions. You treat consciousness as primary and material conditions as secondary. You think changing minds at the ballot box changes the balance of class forces. That is backwards. Social being determines social consciousness, not the other way around. You mistake the form of democracy for its content. You ignore that the two-party system is a mechanism to limit political competition to factions of capital, not to enable working-class rule. You cite 2016 and 2020 as if they were isolated failures of strategy, not expressions of a system that structurally excludes anti-capitalist politics. You blame the left for "quitting" instead of asking why the electoral arena absorbs and neutralises radical energy every single time. This is not analysis. It is moralising. I am Chinese, not American. We had our revolution. We broke the bourgeois state and built a system where the vote actually means something because it is embedded in democratic centralism and whole-process people's democracy, not trapped in a ballot box ritual that changes nothing. These electoralist squabbles about which faction of capital should manage the American empire are none of my concern outside of the theoretical interest I take in educating and engaging in dialogue with comrades in a much different situation. I know it sounds cliché to say "read theory," but genuinely, every idealist assumption you are recycling has been academically addressed and refuted for decades. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 5 points 7 months ago (1 child) These smug dipshits may not take your explanations to heart, but know that I am. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 8 points 7 months ago Thank you always happy to hear when people enjoy and/or find my comments insightful. permalink fedilink source parent [+] Archangel1313@lemmy.ca -7 points 7 months ago (2 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 7 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] eldavi@lemmy.ml 3 points 7 months ago social democrat, not a demsoc this is my first time hearing this. do you know of other sources i can look up to know the difference? permalink fedilink source parent [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 8 points 7 months ago No permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies)
[–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 5 points 7 months ago (1 child) These smug dipshits may not take your explanations to heart, but know that I am. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 8 points 7 months ago Thank you always happy to hear when people enjoy and/or find my comments insightful. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 8 points 7 months ago Thank you always happy to hear when people enjoy and/or find my comments insightful. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] Archangel1313@lemmy.ca -7 points 7 months ago (2 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 7 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] eldavi@lemmy.ml 3 points 7 months ago social democrat, not a demsoc this is my first time hearing this. do you know of other sources i can look up to know the difference? permalink fedilink source parent [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 8 points 7 months ago No permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies)
[+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 7 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] eldavi@lemmy.ml 3 points 7 months ago social democrat, not a demsoc this is my first time hearing this. do you know of other sources i can look up to know the difference? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] eldavi@lemmy.ml 3 points 7 months ago social democrat, not a demsoc this is my first time hearing this. do you know of other sources i can look up to know the difference? permalink fedilink source parent