▲ 515 ▼ stolen (quokk.au) submitted 8 months ago by Deceptichum to c/mop 33 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[–] Deceptichum [S] 16 points 8 months ago (10 children) Who did the Māori steal land from? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net 9 points 8 months ago* (1 child) I'm talking about modern times. Owned land is stolen land. I don't know enough about Māori to say much about their land management practices prior to colonization. But I know Māori have nobility so it's entirely possible and perhaps likely that it was stolen from other Māori. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] FundMECFS@piefed.zip 3 points 8 months ago Good point. I think “all land is stolen land” is a good framework. As long as it doesn’t minimise colonisation obviously. permalink fedilink source parent [–] couldhavebeenyou@lemmy.zip 4 points 8 months ago (1 child) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moriori_genocide permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Deceptichum [S] 4 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) So after the British settled, some Māori went to a small island far to the east? Doesn’t change the fact that they were the first people to arrive in NZ. Which was what I was getting at, but I will concede they did invade someone else’s land too. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 8 months ago ..Kiwi birds? 🤷 permalink fedilink source parent [–] TachyonTele@piefed.social 1 point 8 months ago (4 children) Who ever was there before them. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Deceptichum [S] 2 points 8 months ago (3 children) No one was there before they arrived there 700 years ago. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] TachyonTele@piefed.social 1 point 8 months ago (2 children) Ok. Finding an outlier as an example isn't impressive. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] MrShankles@reddthat.com 3 points 8 months ago I mean... if the claim is "all", it's not really an outlier. It's refuting the claim. An outlier is statistical; claiming "all" is either true or false. Not really interchangeable, without changing context permalink fedilink source parent [–] qarbone@lemmy.world 1 point 8 months ago But providing the existence of a counter example is the foundational detraction to all-encompassing claims like "all land is stolen", in logic. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net 9 points 8 months ago* (1 child) I'm talking about modern times. Owned land is stolen land. I don't know enough about Māori to say much about their land management practices prior to colonization. But I know Māori have nobility so it's entirely possible and perhaps likely that it was stolen from other Māori. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] FundMECFS@piefed.zip 3 points 8 months ago Good point. I think “all land is stolen land” is a good framework. As long as it doesn’t minimise colonisation obviously. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] FundMECFS@piefed.zip 3 points 8 months ago Good point. I think “all land is stolen land” is a good framework. As long as it doesn’t minimise colonisation obviously. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] couldhavebeenyou@lemmy.zip 4 points 8 months ago (1 child) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moriori_genocide permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Deceptichum [S] 4 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) So after the British settled, some Māori went to a small island far to the east? Doesn’t change the fact that they were the first people to arrive in NZ. Which was what I was getting at, but I will concede they did invade someone else’s land too. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Deceptichum [S] 4 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) So after the British settled, some Māori went to a small island far to the east? Doesn’t change the fact that they were the first people to arrive in NZ. Which was what I was getting at, but I will concede they did invade someone else’s land too. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 8 months ago ..Kiwi birds? 🤷 permalink fedilink source parent
[–] TachyonTele@piefed.social 1 point 8 months ago (4 children) Who ever was there before them. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Deceptichum [S] 2 points 8 months ago (3 children) No one was there before they arrived there 700 years ago. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] TachyonTele@piefed.social 1 point 8 months ago (2 children) Ok. Finding an outlier as an example isn't impressive. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] MrShankles@reddthat.com 3 points 8 months ago I mean... if the claim is "all", it's not really an outlier. It's refuting the claim. An outlier is statistical; claiming "all" is either true or false. Not really interchangeable, without changing context permalink fedilink source parent [–] qarbone@lemmy.world 1 point 8 months ago But providing the existence of a counter example is the foundational detraction to all-encompassing claims like "all land is stolen", in logic. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Deceptichum [S] 2 points 8 months ago (3 children) No one was there before they arrived there 700 years ago. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] TachyonTele@piefed.social 1 point 8 months ago (2 children) Ok. Finding an outlier as an example isn't impressive. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] MrShankles@reddthat.com 3 points 8 months ago I mean... if the claim is "all", it's not really an outlier. It's refuting the claim. An outlier is statistical; claiming "all" is either true or false. Not really interchangeable, without changing context permalink fedilink source parent [–] qarbone@lemmy.world 1 point 8 months ago But providing the existence of a counter example is the foundational detraction to all-encompassing claims like "all land is stolen", in logic. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] TachyonTele@piefed.social 1 point 8 months ago (2 children) Ok. Finding an outlier as an example isn't impressive. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] MrShankles@reddthat.com 3 points 8 months ago I mean... if the claim is "all", it's not really an outlier. It's refuting the claim. An outlier is statistical; claiming "all" is either true or false. Not really interchangeable, without changing context permalink fedilink source parent [–] qarbone@lemmy.world 1 point 8 months ago But providing the existence of a counter example is the foundational detraction to all-encompassing claims like "all land is stolen", in logic. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] MrShankles@reddthat.com 3 points 8 months ago I mean... if the claim is "all", it's not really an outlier. It's refuting the claim. An outlier is statistical; claiming "all" is either true or false. Not really interchangeable, without changing context permalink fedilink source parent
[–] qarbone@lemmy.world 1 point 8 months ago But providing the existence of a counter example is the foundational detraction to all-encompassing claims like "all land is stolen", in logic. permalink fedilink source parent
