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[–] 64 points 8 months ago (80 children)

Now watch all the tankies praise him as a honorary socialist

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  • [–] 31 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    They do already. "Respected leader" one post over there said.

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  • [–] 6 points 8 months ago (76 children)

    I am trying to get someone to explain what tankie means. People call me tankie from time to time, but I have no love for the iranian goverment.

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  • [–] 41 points 8 months ago

    Tankies are apologists for "communist" leaders such as Stalin, Mao and Kim. They love Russia, China and North Korea and will swear those countries can do no wrong. "Left" authoritarians... bootlickers.

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  • [–] 12 points 8 months ago (5 children)

    Assuming you're not a tankie, I would guess it's your instance, which is the main one where all the tankies hang out lol

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  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago*

    Which is funny because this was just the main instance when I (and many others) learned about Lemmy. I've been called a tankie because of my instance when I'm pretty sure tankies would call me MAGA as I'm somewhere between a leftist, a liberal, and libertarian 

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  • [–] 5 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    That's the thing, how would I know if I am tankie, if I don't have a clear definition. If it is defined by wether or not I am oppossed to military moving into Budapest 70 years ago. I am probably not a tankie, but I say probably, because everyone writing about seem so biased I find it difficult to see the truth of it. But my moral compass tells me it is always wrong to use military against civilians. Always.

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  • [–] 9 points 8 months ago* (1 child)

    At the end of the day the deeds define the word, not the other way around. Not everyone will use the word correctly or appropriately. It's why only you yourself can truly categorize as such, but at that point you must come to terms with what that means, positively or negatively.

    The bias thing is a real problem, but also sometimes not. It all depends on the context. Some people with unreasonable opinions will absolutely waste your time by never accepting difficult realities and talking around it, so identifying a mindset that's immune to self reflection can be useful. But similarly if a label is all that's needed to dismiss an opinion also is not very reasonable. But it's how some people operate. So sometimes not standing behind a label can be more fruitful as not to entice those presuppositions.

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  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago

    There is another problem. People use slurs to derail the discussions. Calling people "libs" or "tankies" left, right and center removes focus from whatever is discussed and make people crawl into their foxholes. It is an easy way to devalue people's opinions or simply derail discussions. I think I will keep on questioning when people use the word "tankie", because once the word is on the table, the discussion has already been derailed one way or another. And maybe one day it will lead to better discourse.

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  • [–] 4 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    Tankie means someone who sometimes defends socialist authoritarian governments because they oppose the capitalist authoritarian governments.

    They(we, sometimes, it's complicated) have a tendency to forgive the crimes of those socialist governments. Sometimes this is justified, because the accusations are false, invented by capitalist media as propaganda.

    However, sometimes it's because we want to believe that the opposition to capitalism is always good and decent, when the truth is muddy and rather unpleasant: both sides suck in their own special ways, and you shouldn't put anyone on a pedestal.

    Here in the fediverse, anarchist leftists or left-libs are the norm, so we tankies get dogpiled pretty often. A pox on all hierarchical governments seems to be the way here.

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  • [–] 15 points 8 months ago (12 children)

    You guys are easy to spot these days.

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  • [–] 9 points 8 months ago (4 children)

    Can you show an example of people calling Mamdani supporters tankies please?

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  • [–] 14 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    "Tankie" is just a derogatory term for anyone to the left of the person saying it


    anarchists will use it for almost literally anyone

    Great logic. Almost as if you're speaking shite, unless anarchists are on the right now...

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  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago

    No one calls Mamdani a tankie, but I have seen tankies calling Mamdani a fascist. They clearly don't know what fascism is.

    Centrists also don't use the term "tankie." If anything they call everyone on the left a socialist (as if it's a bad thing) or a communist or a radical leftist.

    "Tankie" is specifically a word people on the left use to refer to auth-comms.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago (2 children)

    Not even a little bit, but typical tankie rhetoric is to call anyone who isn't at least as far to the left as them (read: approaching infinity) a fascist, so I'm not surprised to hear this from an .ml account

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  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    Oh, because we all know that the entire event was caught on video and it was so easy to smuggle film out of china at the time.

    (Context: the video of tank man was hidden in a toilet while the authorities searched the man's apartment after he was spotted filming from his window).

    But denying massacres of civilians is so in character for someone from .ml, so nobody is surprised, really...

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  • [–] 4 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    So because tank man wasn't killed on camera, you're claiming the entire massacre was a lie?

    Does anyone even claim that he was killed? That was never the point of that video. The point was that an unnamed, ordinary, everyday person can be a hero during difficult times, even on his way back from the grocery store. He didn't go out that day planning to be a hero, but the circumstances aligned and he chose courage over complacency.

    For example did you know that many dozens of police officers (who were unarmed) were burnt to death by the student protestors?

    Is that on video? Cause it sounds like you won't believe the protesters were murdered unless it's on video. So do you have video evidence corroborating this claim that it was actually the protesters who were killing cops?

    I never thought I would hear a tankie with a pro-police argument. I guess "ACAB" comes with a footnote that says "except for the PLA"? How fast they turn around and lick boots when the dictators are anti-west...

    did you know that the leaders of the student protests were coordinating with and were paid by western intelligence agencies?

    You're gonna need some evidence to back that up. Maga claims the anti-ICE protestors are paid by foreign influence, but the truth is people simply don't like being oppressed by violent dictators.

    Did you know that literally nancy pelosi was on the ground during those protests?

    I don't give a shit what nancy pelosi was doing. She's a political opportunist and saw a moment to extort for clout. It's not that deep.

    do you know anything other than what imperialist propaganda has directed you to 'know'?

    Do you "know" anything other than imperialist propaganda has directed you to "know"? Tankies are a cult like maga, you reject reality as "propaganda" because it doesn't align with your worldview, which is largely composed of actual propaganda.

    I'd rather be a tankie than a normie

    I'm definitely no normie, but thank fuck there are more than two options (sorry not sorry that conflicts with your campist worldview, but life isn't sportsball team).

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  • [–] 7 points 8 months ago (6 children)

    "Tankie" was originally a British slang term from the 50s.

    In 1956, when the Soviet Union invaded Hungary, the British Communist movement was split over whether this action was cool, or sucked.

    The people who thought it sucked derided their opponents who thought its cool, as "Tankies", because the images in the newspapers featured lots of photos of Soviet tanks rolling into Budapest.

    After this, it stops being used for the most part, until it started being reclaimed by socialists online as a tongue-in-cheeck insult to throw at each other. Because, let's be real, it's a silly sounding word that's fun to say, and silly words are among the UK's biggest cultural exports.

    Eventually though, Tankie breached containment and started to be used by people who had zero connection to any kind of socialist movement or history, and its meaning began to warp.

    I've seen Marxists, even those think the Soviet invasion of Hungary was bad, called tankies. I've seen Anarchists called Tankies, I've seen right wing guys who love trad russian Orthodox Christianity called Tankies.

    It's a word that doesn't mean much anymore. It's like when your grandpa calls Joe Biden "Pinko Scum"

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  • [–] 5 points 8 months ago (4 children)

    That's usually how the tankies try to convey it, but otherwise I haven't seen that argument.

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    So people are "tankies" if they define "tankie" as slur meaning "left of poster"? That once again sounds like the way MAGA use "woke" about stuff they don't like.

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  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    Not at all, and you're not the first that tries to denaturate or change the definition of the word tankie.

    A tankie is pro authoritarian, but instead of being pro fascism its being pro those who called themselves left like stalin lenin etc

    So it describes the "left" Maga if you want.

    I sure do understand why tankies would want to make believe the "tankie" is just like "woke" but it isn't, it's calling them out, showing that they are not leftists but authoritarians (so again, basically fascists).

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  • [–] 4 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    Tankies are basically maga but for "socialism"

    They don't have any actual values or morals and will happily support the most disgusting and heinous people that opress people, are racists wexist homophobic, that murder civilians and even commit genocide as long as they say they hate capitalism, and western imperialism.

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  • [–] 4 points 8 months ago (4 children)

    Thank you for sharing the wikipedia article. I hadn't read it. A lot of people find Wikipedia controversial for various reasons. But it is one of the most precise encyclopedias on the planet. And you can check out editing history etc. What I am most interested in, is the use here ofcourse. Because it seems to me people use it as a vaguely defined slur to slander people they deem to leftist.

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago (22 children)

    It's basically a term people on the left use for people on the extreme outer-reaches of the left, typically unthinking, uncritical, and unreasonable supporters of bolshevism and authoritarian communism, and pretty much any oppressive regime that considers itself "anti-west."

    They love putin, jinping, kim, assad, khamenei, etc.

    They stylize themselves as "Marxist-Leninists" and your instance is full of them, so if you signed up unknowingly and aren't a tankie, people might just assume based on the ".ml"

    But yeah, most people on lemmy are tired of arguing in circles with tankies, who typically rely on ad hominems, strawmen, sealioning, and other bad faith or uncharitable arguments to bully you into exhaustion. Some of them have to be bots or russian trolls, cause no one can honestly be so dense. It can feel like arguing with someone from r/conservative, just with the opposite opinions.

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  • [–] 5 points 8 months ago (20 children)

    It's not that vague if you've ever encountered one in the wild. You would know exactly what it's referring to. And it's nothing like conservatives using "woke." They use "woke" to describe anything mildly progressive. Tankies aren't progressives, they're accelerationist armchair militants. They call democratic socialists fascists.

    Even if your opinion aligns with them on most things, it doesn't automatically make you a tankie. If you're not an auth-comm intent on bullying everyone who disagrees with you the slightest bit and labeling all nuance and critical reasoning as capitalist imperialist propaganda, then you're probably not a tankie.

    That's also different from critiquing actual imperialism and capitalism. But tankies' overuse of those terms and others like "fascist" waters down the meanings and obfuscates the terms, making it harder for good-faith communicators to actually discuss these topics critically.

    You can be anti-imperialist all you want, but tankies use western imperialism as an excuse to justify supporting imperialist regimes like Russia. They're full of cognitive dissonance.

    Go ahead and disagree with someone slightly on .ml or hexbear and see what kind of response you get.

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago (19 children)

    I've yet to try those kinds of response, when I discuss with people. Then again I haven't been going into discussion about Yemen for instance. Mainly because my actual knowledge is simply to small to contribute. I do support anti-imperialist struggles, even by regimes I don't like. But that does not mean I waiver my right to call out they in turn tyrannize their populations.

    And yeah, I have a feeling we have a lot of online cosplayers here in the fediverse, but I will keep treating people as if they are real, when I interact. That however also mean I will keep asking people for definitions. I.e. what do you mean when you say "fash", "tankie", "lib" and so on. People use the slurs to hide behind and everyone loves if we can make everything black and white.

    But I am a socialist and I have been called a tankie several times and I've even been banned for a couple of sub because I asked about that definition. I don't mind people not liking what I say, but I will not take being slurred without questioning it. If that means a ban, well I am happy for getting out of another echo chamber.

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago (18 children)

    Mainly because my actual knowledge is simply to small to contribute

    See, an actual tankie would never admit to having limitations on their own personal knowledge and understanding.

    But I am a socialist and I have been called a tankie several times

    I'm a socialist too and tankies have called me a fascist because I believe in democratic-socialism instead of bolshevism. They clearly don't know what fascism is.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago* (5 children)

    Do you mean Social Democracy countries? Because Democratic Socialism is a political party or persuasion, not a political system in its own right. What country is exclusively Democratic Socialist?

    A political party or persuasion? Which is it? It seems you don't exactly have a clear idea on what it is. It is absolutely an ideology. Though it would like socialism, it prioritizes compromising with capitalism, much like social democracy. Is it really even worth trying to distinguish between the two?

    But keep blaming the Nordic model for the crimes of the US, I’m sure that strategy will convince somebody, just not me.

    The majority of Nordic countries are part of NATO. It's a nasty terrorist organization.

    Oh and by the way, do you want to mention the millions of deaths under Lenin, Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot? Since apparently you’re juxtaposing “true” leftism against all the inferior or “untrue” leftisms as some sort of harbinger of moral superiority and respect for human lives?

    You pretend to be progressive, but fail to see true progressivism. I'm guessing you're talking deaths due to famine, which were the majority of the deaths under those leaders, but conditions improved due to those leaders, and the people of course. Socialism is all about the collective. The role of the dictator of the proletariat is to keep the capitalists from returning to power, not oppress the people. You claim to not be a liberal, but you're sure coming off as one, rude like one as well. Millions die due to capitalism every year. I'm not sure why you're not bringing that up as well. Also, do note that you're now defending capitalism. Not a real progressive thing to do.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago (4 children)

    Political parties are based on commonalities of persuasion. Democratic Socialism is primarily a political persuasion, but there are some countries with Democratic Socialist parties, which are obviously based on the persuasion. It wasn't unclear, unless you're deliberately trying to muddy the waters.

    Both of those things are different from a political system, though. Social Democracies can have multiple political parties of various persuasions, because Social Democracy itself isn't an individual party but a whole system within which various parties interact. There are social democratic parties, based on the goal of implementing policies that resemble how a social democracy would run.

    The majority of Nordic countries are part of NATO. It's a nasty terrorist organization.

    Fucking vatnik.

    You pretend to be progressive, but fail to see true progressivism.

    Oh, so I guess "true progressivism" is Lenin ordering the Bolsheviks to assassinate all the Soviet leadership and replace them with sycophantic puppets because... he lost an election to them?

    Millions die due to capitalism every year

    I never denied that, and I don't support capitalism.

    I'm not sure why you're not bringing that up as well.

    Way to flip the fucking script. I brought up the deaths under Lenin et al as a response to you failing to mention them while pointing out the supposed deaths Social Democracy is allegedly responsible for. I even acknowledged that some western countries have committed war crimes, but I guess you'll just breeze over anything that doesn't reinforce your predetermined narrative?

    Also, do note that you're now defending capitalism.

    I didn't do that, but believe it or not I can be against bolshevism and capitalism. Not everyone is trapped in your narrow, campist worldview.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago (3 children)

    The NATO supporting anti-capitalist. Meh. You're a lost cause. I'm quite alright. I have better things to do than speak with a future fascist.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago (2 children)

    You think the russian federation isn't a fascist and and ultra-capitalist oligarchy/kleptocracy?

    Cause that's what you seem to be insinuating when you suggest that supporting NATO makes me a fascist...

    The entire world-order (Yes, including the PRC and the BRICS bloc) is capitalist. I can be against capitalism, while also supporting the defense pact that enables Europe to maintain a unified front against russian imperialist aggression.

    Because economies and political institutions, although deeply interconnected, are two different things. And russian fascism isn't any better than american fascism.

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