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8BitDo announces it's controllers now have Steam/SteamOS compatibility (sopuli.xyz)
submitted 1 year ago by to c/steamdeck@sopuli.xyz
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These controllers were all working on SteamOS before as far as I know, so I'm interested to see what this changes. My understanding is that previously their controllers just show up as generic xbox controllers, and now they will be properly recognized. We'll see if this has any other benefits like custom bindings for back buttons and things like that.

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Edit:

According to @dualpad@lemmy.zip

got the 8bitdo Ultimate 2 wireless controller with the latest firmware update, and can confirm dinput mode lets me map the back buttons and extra bumpers to different inputs through Steam Input. Analog triggers and gyro work too.

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[–] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

Than you are like most mouse and keyboard players where you confidently assume mouse and keyboard is the best control method end of story. You don't know what you are talking about and neither do any reply guys who will try to obliterate this point with a salvo of "um actually" killer rhetorical points.

https://steamdeckhq.com/news/steam-deck-shown-being-used-in-ukraines-war/

That is a Ukrainian soldier using a steam deck to control actual weapon systems real humans (likely mouse and keyboard players who have no ability to use a gamepad) are counting on to survive an actual war.

Honestly if I sound snarky it is because I have grown to love how unshakably mouse and keyboard players believe they are using the only method to play competitively. Especially in a battlefield type FPS game with aircraft, mouse and keyboard players will hilariously refuse to fly with anything other than mouse and keyboard or a crazy complex flight simulator setup with a flight joystick they talk about but will never get.

Meanwhile there is an xbox one controller sitting in the other room that in 5 minutes they could learn to pull off flight maneuvers smoothly and confidently with that are next to impossible to do with mouse and keyboard...

I point this out to mouse and keyboard players directly and they don't listen even why I fly literal circles around them. They respond with some form of "mouse and keyboard works badly enough for me". Computer people are truly so much smarter than the rest of us!

me flying circles around people

https://lostpod.space/w/id9wMqsEmHSD9xQCTchQ9r

https://lostpod.space/w/fYo9DBAxwWSace7X7X486t

https://lostpod.space/w/qUyc9YLX69RK4xokm98qCW

Recording of me playing the best arena shooter, Xonotic, with joysticks and gyro. Sure there are plenty of quake players that could annihilate me, such is life, but I am able to play fluidly and competitively enough that the issue is my skill at the game and to a lesser extent the limited framerate and field of view of the Steam Deck screen not a fundamental limitation of joysticks and gyro. Note that Xonotic is one of the fastest competitive games period, which means slower competitive games are comparatively in terms of dynamic aim and movement skill FAR easier to master the mechanics of than Xonotic, so Xonotic is the perfect proving ground to prove this.

https://lostpod.space/w/n4botXqTikDFBD5d9HZqRi

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    Than you are like most mouse and keyboard players where you confidently assume mouse and keyboard is the best control method end of story.

    No, it's great for driving and flying. It's also the best option for most souls-likes and third person melee games.

    That is a Ukrainian soldier using a steam deck to control actual weapon systems real humans...

    OK, this is a stupid point. This is a much different scenario than someone sitting at home. The Deck is portable, light, and has control and display built in. It's perfect for this, where a desktop wouldn't really work. Even if the control scheme isn't ideal (which it's great for controlling a drone, but that's beside the point), setting up a keyboard and mouse with a monitor and power would be horrible for them.

    Honestly if I sound snarky it is because I have grown to love how unshakably mouse and keyboard players believe they are using the only method to play competitively.

    For aiming, it's almost always better. Controller is better for movement usually. Controller inputs are between 0 and 1. Mouse is unrestrained, so it's more precise and faster at the same time.

    Especially in a battlefield type FPS game with aircraft, mouse and keyboard players will hilariously refuse to fly with anything other than mouse and keyboard...

    Again, controller is great for driving and flying. You can swap inputs freely though. Use both if you want. Driving and flying on KB&M is not that bad though, and aiming with a controller is significantly worse, so if you're choosing one KB&M is the right choice.

    me flying circles around people

    *Recording of me playing the best arena shooter, Xonotic, with joysticks and gyro. Sure there are plenty of quake players that could annihilate me...

    I like that these follow each other. Of course you can get clips that look good, and also you know there are clips where you look bad. What does that prove?

    Note that Xonotic is one of the fastest competitive games period, which means slower competitive games are comparatively in terms of dynamic aim and movement skill FAR easier to master the mechanics of than Xonotic, so Xonotic is the perfect proving ground to prove this.*

    This is irrelevant to the conversation, but there are different types of mechanical skill. The skill you use in Quake is not the same as the skill you use in Counter Strike, for example. Both of them require incredible skill at high level play. Largely it's down to accuracy VS precision. Quake style you need to be more accurate (shoot in the right area) but less precise. CS you'll be aiming in the right spot already, so you need less precision and more accuracy. You've got a fraction of a second to get a headshot, and you have to hit it. Gyro aim is likely only going to make that harder.

    There's a reason top level players of all competitive shooters (and gaming in general usually) on PC use KB&M even though controllers are usable on PC. If there was an argument here you'd see at least a few using controllers.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child)

    That is a Ukrainian soldier using a steam deck to control actual weapon systems real humans...

    OK, this is a stupid point. This is a much different scenario than someone sitting at home. The Deck is portable, light, and has control and display built in. It's perfect for this, where a desktop wouldn't really work. Even if the control scheme isn't ideal (which it's great for controlling a drone, but that's beside the point), setting up a keyboard and mouse with a monitor and power would be horrible for them.

    No it isn't, they could use a mouse if they wanted to, and they aren't. Sure it helps that the Steam Deck is portable, but if you think they are all sitting there wishing they could have a mouse and keyboard you are being silly. We aren't talking about what makes the most convenient way to game on the go, if using a mouse and keyboard provided a critical increase in accuracy and speed using a weapon system you better believe they would stick a fucking logitech wireless mouse in the pockets of their army fatigues?

    This is irrelevant to the conversation, but there are different types of mechanical skill

    Yeah your tangent here is, I know there are different types of mechanical skill but don't come at me like competitive counter strike requires more reaction speed, hand eye coordination and target prediction than quake, you are deceiving yourself because you can't admit that high level quake play just shits on any kind of counterstrike style game along the real but ultimately arbitrary axis of pure mechanical skill, aim, reaction time and ability to predict the motion of chaotic intelligent enemies. It isn't up for debate, the movement in Xonotic is 1 million times more complex and fast than it is in Counter Strike... by design. *NOTE Counter Strike is just as hard as a competitive game as Xonotic, it is probably way harder given the immensity of it's playerbase that has also mastered these mechanics.

    Understand I am talking about moment to moment game mechanics skill, when I say riding a horse fast is far harder than driving a racecar fast, I don't mean driving a racecar is less competitive or easier, I mean the moment to moment shit you have to do to stay on a horse is more than a racecar. I am tired of people very very very experienced at driving racecars telling me that riding a horse is much easier when they have never even sat on a horse in their life. Ok, if you want to bring up F1 racing at high speed around tight corners or Isle of Man TT motorbike racing yes... but now your metaphor is just supporting my argument that Xonotic is the most mechanically difficult competitive type of FPS game, because those are clearly the closest thing to real life Quake gameplay....

    https://youtu.be/WfOF6c79A3Y

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RBZvSDHURnk&pp=ygUMeG9ub3RpYyBkdWVs

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VakkA196ILs&pp=ygUMeG9ub3RpYyBkdWVs

    This does help segway into a nice summary of why you are so wrong here, my point was that if you can play Xonotic somewhat competitively using joysticks and gyroscope aim than that is proof you can play any mechanically less taxing game competitively with this set up. That doesn't mean Counter Strikes is any easier than Xonotic or Quake 3 Live, what it means is that the there is less raw skill required in the actual moment to moment gameplay vs. having skill, knowledge and experience in every other aspect of competition that is vital other than just literally being good at doing the thing.

    I will not have a discussion about this lead into a digression into bickering about how skill is more than just raw reaction time or aim skill... yes I know, I never claimed otherwise read my words closer before you react with this argument.

    I would like to also respond to your argument that if using joysticks and gyroscope were competitive you would see at least some PC players using them in competition. This is a massively flawed assumption though it is reasonable on the surface.

    1. The hardware for gyroscope capable joystick gamepads, whether they are integrated into a handheld gaming console or they are contained within the controller like on a Ps5 controller, has not been around for very long in any accessible fashion.

    2. You are ignorant in the way most pc gaming people are in that you are ignoring the MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH larger playerbase of mobile shooter gamers using purely a smartphone with touchscreen controls and gyroscope... that are playing at a competitive level that you would flat out deny if I showed you videos of. You don't know what you are talking about, you haven't seen high level players on ipads playing Farlight 84 or Call of Duty Mobile and thus you have no grounds to make the claim there isn't evidence that joysticks and gyroscope aim can't be competitive because you see no evidence of it. Call Of Duty Mobile is one of the most played games on the planet, get with the program buddy.

    I have played with some of these players in Call Of Duty Mobile in high level Search and Destroy games or in Alcatraz or normal Battle Royale modes (among the other less challenging normal Call Of Duty modes) using an xbox controller and gyroscope on my phone.. there are some ways that touchscreen is superior (ease of access to buttons along with extreme customizability of many control inputs to be intuitive and fast) but also some ways that my setup of joysticks + gyroscope was superior. Was I as good as these players? Of course not, but there wasn't some categorical ceiling of hardware holding me back, these people are just better at the game plain and simple. I had the same experience getting near the top of the ladder in Apex Legends Mobile, the predator ranked players above me where ruthless but they didn't have some kind of untouchable hardware advantage on me even if their devices had higher refresh/Hz, lower latency, larger and higher resolution screens. That helped, but what mattered was they were better at the game. Still, I got close enough to the top to thoroughly convince myself that there wasn't a hardware issue really holding me back, the holes in my battle royale/FPS game mechanics have far more to do with my tactics then aim, I have the aim down well enough trust me.

    https://www.tweaktown.com/news/92194/call-of-duty-has-70-million-daily-active-users-more-than-roblox/index.html

    https://www.esports.net/news/mobile-games/cod-mobile-player-count/

    Per Activision, the game has already crossed 500 million downloads in 2021 itself. Therefore, the overall game downloads in 2025 should be considerably higher than that, and could be somewhere around 700 million right now. While it’s still a bit far from the 1 billion milestone, which only a few games like Subway Surfers and Free Fire have achieved, the game is undoubtedly one of the most popular ones available on mobile. This can also be attributed to the game being free-to-play, which has generated considerable interest towards the Call of Duty franchise.

    Additionally, according to Active Player, the daily player count in recent months is around 25 million users, a really huge number.

    https://www.esports.net/news/mobile-games/cod-mobile-player-count/

    examples of competitive touchscreen and gyroscope play

    codm

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BuRirm25WhI&pp=ygUnZmFybGlnaHQgODQgY29tcGV0aXRpdmUgaXBhZCB0b3VybmFt

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uwNWk_MNFRk&pp=ygUnZmFybGlnaHQgODQgY29tcGV0aXRpdmUgaXBhZCB0b3VybmFtZW50

    1. As I have pointed out repeatedly in my arguments, just because there is a superior way to do it DOES NOT mean computer people/gamers will elect to use it (ESPECIALLY stick in the mud pc gamers). Computer people/gamers are no different than any other demographic of humans in that they will irrationally refuse to try certain things for no good reason, the thing that makes them unique is the degree of confidence they have that they do not do this because they are good at computers and/or programming. Thus at a fundamental level even if you are right and there aren't any competitive joysticks and gyroscope players out there than it still isn't actually very good evidence that it isn't possible to play competitively with joysticks and gyroscope because there is no reason to assume pc gamers would actually evolve and try it. PC first person shooter competitive gamers just recently decided to stop using CRT monitors I mean... come on don't look to them to be harbingers of innovation!

    2. Mouse and Keyboard will always be a massive part of competitive gaming, I will also refuse to be lead along a digression into arguing about this, I am not denying the immense competitive capacity for mouse and keyboard at certain genres of video games, but we are no longer in an environment that pc gamers assumed would continue indefinitely forever.... there are other competitive control schemes now that can beat mouse and keyboard, decisively in some cases depending on the competitive esport. These include joysticks and gyroscope aim control for gamepads/gaming handhelds and touchscreen and gyroscope controls for smartphones. There will be more discovered, this makes mouse and keyboard players uncomfortable shrugs but as pc gamers love to say condescendingly, it is the way it is.

    Edit I mean I didn't even bring up rocket league lol...

    Edit 2 My second edit got lost, but suffice to say gestures at FPV drones and RC hobby not giving a shit about wanting mouse and keyboard level precision control in the field because THEY ALREADY HAVE IT with their tools.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    No it isn't, they could use a mouse if they wanted to, and they aren't. Sure it helps that the Steam Deck is portable, but if you think they are all sitting there wishing they could have a mouse and keyboard you are being silly. We aren't talking about what makes the most convenient way to game on the go, if using a mouse and keyboard provided a critical increase in accuracy and speed using a weapon system you better believe they would stick a fucking logitech wireless mouse in the pockets of their army fatigues?

    I'm not going to spend a lot of time on this, but not, you wouldn't. It wouldn't be practical. Watch this and you'll understand that it really isn't an option. You don't have a nice desk to sit at while you're doing this stuff. You're in a war zone. It's a totally different situation, and not comparable, to you sitting in your comfy home. Again, this is not stating which is better (probably controller anyway), just that it doesn't matter to the conversation. For example, soldiers eating MREs doesn't prove they're the best meal. No, they're practical, portable, and stable, which you need because you're in a fucking war zone.

    If you want to look at a better situation, look at pro players of games. They're on KB&M.

    you are deceiving yourself because you can't admit that high level quake play just shits on any kind of counterstrike style game

    I don't know what this even means. Requires more skill? Is that what you mean? The amount of skill required is purely dictated by level of play. Top level players will likely be at the extent of human ability, no matter the game (assuming it has a large enough player base). Top level play is defined as the limit of skills, making them effectively all equal. Quake has a high skill floor, but the ceiling is essentially as high as CS. If you mean shits on as in it's "better" then I don't care, and apparently neither does anyone else because CS is watched and played far more.

    NOTE Counter Strike is just as hard as a competitive game as Xonotic, it is probably way harder given the immensity of it's playerbase that has also mastered these mechanics.

    We agree.

    I don't know what I'm spending my time here on. I agree controller has some advantages. So does KB&M. Use them for what they're best at.

    Computer people/gamers are no different than any other demographic of humans in that they will irrationally refuse to try certain things for no good reason

    I agree. Again, look at CS pros. They stuck to using 4:3 (sometimes black bars, sometimes stretched) for a long time, even on 16:9 monitors. However, they adapt over time. Literally none have gotten to a high level with a controller, even though plenty have played with them, even with gyro.

    Edit I mean I didn't even bring up rocket league lol...

    Edit 2 My second edit got lost, but suffice to say gestures at FPV drones and RC hobby not giving a shit about wanting mouse and keyboard level precision control in the field because THEY ALREADY HAVE IT with their tools.

    I feel like you didn't read my comment and just started ranting. I said controllers are better for some things. Driving and flying in particular. These both have custom hardware better suited for them usually though. We haven't replaced steering wheels in cars because they're better for driving. We haven't replaced sticks in (most) planes because they're better for flying. Controllers are best at being cheap, versitile, and convenient. They do suit drone flight well though, and may be ideal for that. Even without the Deck, drones were controlled by a dual stick system usually, so a controller naturally fits.

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